vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 19:35:20 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Oct 5, 9:11*pm, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:21:22 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Oct 5, 5:04*pm, Vic Smith wrote:

What I find strange is that some people have boats, and others don't.

I never thought of it that way, Vic.

i suppose I haven't evolved to higher intelligence.

Woe is me....

For a small fee I would be glad to provide you with the essential
inner knowledge to free your mind and increase your intelligence.

Tom, I appreciate the offer, but I have plenty of .22 shells.

I didn't mean blow holes in your head to increase ventilation
resulting in cooling that increases your intellect.

~~ sheesh ~~

oooops, you mean I wasn't supposed to....???

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On 10/6/09 11:20 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 21:49:32 -0400, tiny
wrote:

In ,
says...

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:33:59 -0400,
wrote:


Isn't it strange that this mental development happened to only one of
the animals that lived over those hundreds of thousands of years?

Not to me. Standing upright and having an opposable thumb made humans
king of the hill. Then further natural selection developed further
mentality.
I suspect that if homo sapiens were wiped away, one of the other
primates would eventually evolve to take his place.
Just like Planet of the Apes.

You have got to be kidding us....


Guess you don't like Roddy McDowall, eh?

--Vic


Nah...he's afraid of the competition.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
On 10/6/09 10:02 PM, tiny wrote:
In ,
says...

On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:21:22 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Oct 5, 5:04 pm, Vic wrote:

What I find strange is that some people have boats, and others don't.

I never thought of it that way, Vic.

i suppose I haven't evolved to higher intelligence.

Woe is me....

For a small fee I would be glad to provide you with the essential
inner knowledge to free your mind and increase your intelligence.
that's kind of like asking me to (ask my wife if I can) cut my hair..
I/she would be lost without it;)



Maybe washing it once a week would be enough for you.


--

I bet the boys at the race track think that big haired/ponytailed look is
fetching.

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:21:38 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:


Reasonable approach, but it doesn't solve the problem. They believe
in something other than what is being taught. These are active and
engaged students and directly challenge your presentation with what
they believe to be true.

What do you do?

There is no problem.
Ran into bible thumpers in some college classes.
The profs handled them easily by telling them they were off the
curriculum reservation and disturbing the flow of what was being
taught.
One told a persistent guy flat out, "Hey, I don't come into your
church lecturing about literature. Have the decency to show me the
same respect."
What makes you think crackpots are hard to handle?
Part of growing up as a crackpot is accepting rejection.
And part of growing up as a non-crackpot is recognizing crackpots and
rejecting them.
And I'm sure that in my childhood Baptist church Pastor Anderson would
have easily handled some crackpot disputing his sermon with talk of
evolution and how wrong his sermon was.
Kenny Rogers said it best. "You got to know when to hold them,
and....."
A lectern and a pulpit are different platforms.

--Vic

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 21:49:32 -0400, tiny
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:33:59 -0400, JohnH
wrote:


Isn't it strange that this mental development happened to only one of
the animals that lived over those hundreds of thousands of years?

Not to me. Standing upright and having an opposable thumb made humans
king of the hill. Then further natural selection developed further
mentality.
I suspect that if homo sapiens were wiped away, one of the other
primates would eventually evolve to take his place.
Just like Planet of the Apes.

You have got to be kidding us....


Guess you don't like Roddy McDowall, eh?

--Vic

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On Oct 5, 9:50*pm, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 19:35:20 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:



On Oct 5, 9:11*pm, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:21:22 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Oct 5, 5:04*pm, Vic Smith wrote:

What I find strange is that some people have boats, and others don't.

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:45:57 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

Ok - fair enough. Let's take a hypothetical journey.

You're a Middle School science teacher and as part of the biology
section you teach the section on evolution. Two students, solid A
honor roll types tell you that they believe in the New Earth model as
part of their religious upbringing - that it is a tenant of their
belief system.

What do you do?

I would point out that they are entitled to their belief system, as
are others who believe differently. I would also point out the
differences between a belief system and the scientific method.

Most of the problems arise when one group proclaims that their
particular belief system is the only one that should have standing,
demands that it be taught to everyone, and tries to influence
legistation and other governmental functions to that end.

The founding fathers of this country were very aware of this
phenomenon thanks to ongoing struggles with the Church of England over
the years, and that is why we have constitutional guarantees regarding
the separation of church and state. If you love this country, you
have to love the constitution also. They are inseparable but some
people just don't get it.



Thank you! Well said Wayne.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Actually the Constitution does not demand separation of church and state.
IT demands that a state religion not be enabled. There are lots if
religious references in the founding documents. They enabled any religion
to be practiced. As long as it did not harm others.

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

"CalifBill" wrote in message
...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:45:57 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

Ok - fair enough. Let's take a hypothetical journey.

You're a Middle School science teacher and as part of the biology
section you teach the section on evolution. Two students, solid A
honor roll types tell you that they believe in the New Earth model as
part of their religious upbringing - that it is a tenant of their
belief system.

What do you do?

I would point out that they are entitled to their belief system, as
are others who believe differently. I would also point out the
differences between a belief system and the scientific method.

Most of the problems arise when one group proclaims that their
particular belief system is the only one that should have standing,
demands that it be taught to everyone, and tries to influence
legistation and other governmental functions to that end.

The founding fathers of this country were very aware of this
phenomenon thanks to ongoing struggles with the Church of England over
the years, and that is why we have constitutional guarantees regarding
the separation of church and state. If you love this country, you
have to love the constitution also. They are inseparable but some
people just don't get it.



Thank you! Well said Wayne.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Actually the Constitution does not demand separation of church and state.
IT demands that a state religion not be enabled. There are lots if
religious references in the founding documents. They enabled any religion
to be practiced. As long as it did not harm others.

"Demand"?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."

Seems relatively clear to me...

--
Nom=de=Plume

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 19:31:23 -0400, tiny
wrote:

In article 3682f84e-bd80-4bc3-aed1-
, says...

On Oct 5, 7:48*pm, H the K wrote:
On 10/5/09 7:51 PM, Tim wrote:



On Oct 5, 8:50 am, H the *wrote:
On 10/5/09 8:48 AM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 08:08:10 -0400, Wayne.B
* *wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:57:35 -0400,
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 23:09:17 -0400, Wayne.B
* *wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:36:03 -0400, JohnRant
* *wrote:

Why should public school students be subjected to the faith based
beliefs of others?

Why should students not be told of the beliefs of others?

That's fine if you're teaching a course on religion, not so fine if
you're teaching a course called science.

There's nothing wrong with mentioning the controversy in a science
class.

We'll have to disagree on that. * Once you accomodate the faith based
belief of your choice in science class, where do you stop?

You can say that about anything. *Mainstreaming special ed students
started off as just one period a day - now it's an entire school day.
Used to be band and drama were after school activities, then one
period a week, then every day.

Just sayin'. *:)

There are quite a few different interpretations of the Book of Genesis,
not to mention all the other religions of the world.

Heh. You know it's funny - most religions, faiths, primitive pagans
and assorted heathens mostly agree - first there was nothing and then
there was something.

Now I grant you, the various reinterpretations of Genesis by flawed
humans promoting their own ideas presents conflicting/competing dogma,
but at the essential points, they are pretty much in agreement.

Well except for me that is - I still think it was Aliens. *:)

If you take a literal interpretation of Genesis, it was caused by God.
But another way to interpret Genesis is with an eye towards evolution.
Try it sometime - it's a fun exercise.

Science and the scientific method are about provable facts.

True enough. Fairly obvious.

Everything else is religion or philosophy.

I agree - global warming, peak oil, wind/solar energy. *:)

~~ now come one - you just knew that was coming :) *~~

The point was the relevance of creationism in science classes or,
indeed, in public schools. No relevance, should not be discussed except
perhaps as an example of religious superstition.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

There's many things that science can't explain, Harry.

* I myself haven't seen anything in the Bible that would discount dyed-
in-the-wool, rock hard, chiseled-in-stone proof of scientific
anything.

however, I don't see science being the absolute authority on the
beginning of mankind, or beyond *to before the Universes.

So, until science can present solid proof of origins of creation (big
bang theory included) I'll remain a Creationist that believes in
"Intelligent Design"

besides, *even if you leave out the Judao-christian belief system, it
really does no harm to look at another point of view in school as an
option, because I never hear evolution as being called "fact" but I
hear it called "theory" a lot. And weather answerable, or unanswerable
questions, there's too many "what if's" with theory.

I don't care what you or any other "believer" believes...just keep it
out of the public schools.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

Thank you for your input, Harry. I'll take that into consideration.

Wafa is an ignorant idiot, but of course you must just be mocking him
because nobody could really take him seriously...

Tim is getting more subtle with each passing day.

Soon he'll be so subtle *he* won't be sure of what he meant.

:) :) :) :)

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 19:28:09 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:45:57 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:


Perhaps, if you include all creationist theories, not just the Christian
one, the Greek Chaos, etc. If you limit yourself to one creation
theory, you run right into the establishment clause of the First
Amendment.

Ok - fair enough. Let's take a hypothetical journey.

You're a Middle School science teacher and as part of the biology
section you teach the section on evolution. Two students, solid A honor
roll types tell you that they believe in the New Earth model as part of
their religious upbringing - that it is a tenant of their belief system.

What do you do?

These things do get tricky, don't they? As a school teacher it would be
my job to teach evolution, not discourage their belief system. I would
continue to teach evolution, but, I can't see any positive results from
getting into a discussion of their religious tenants.

What do you, Mr Teacher, say when they ask where man got the ability
to reason?