vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:14:30 -0400, Jim wrote:

You go girl.

I give up - I can't follow the thread anymore.

Damn... :)


Jim was just empowering me with self-esteem, as though I need it. :-)

--
Nom=de=Plume

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 16:14:34 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:14:30 -0400, Jim wrote:

You go girl.

I give up - I can't follow the thread anymore.

Damn... :)

Jim was just empowering me with self-esteem, as though I need it. :-)

Oh - look - Shiney object!!!

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

In article 3682f84e-bd80-4bc3-aed1-
, says...

On Oct 5, 7:48*pm, H the K wrote:
On 10/5/09 7:51 PM, Tim wrote:



On Oct 5, 8:50 am, H the *wrote:
On 10/5/09 8:48 AM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 08:08:10 -0400, Wayne.B
* *wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:57:35 -0400,
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 23:09:17 -0400, Wayne.B
* *wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:36:03 -0400, JohnRant
* *wrote:

Why should public school students be subjected to the faith based
beliefs of others?

Why should students not be told of the beliefs of others?

That's fine if you're teaching a course on religion, not so fine if
you're teaching a course called science.

There's nothing wrong with mentioning the controversy in a science
class.

We'll have to disagree on that. * Once you accomodate the faith based
belief of your choice in science class, where do you stop?

You can say that about anything. *Mainstreaming special ed students
started off as just one period a day - now it's an entire school day.
Used to be band and drama were after school activities, then one
period a week, then every day.

Just sayin'. *:)

There are quite a few different interpretations of the Book of Genesis,
not to mention all the other religions of the world.

Heh. You know it's funny - most religions, faiths, primitive pagans
and assorted heathens mostly agree - first there was nothing and then
there was something.

Now I grant you, the various reinterpretations of Genesis by flawed
humans promoting their own ideas presents conflicting/competing dogma,
but at the essential points, they are pretty much in agreement.

Well except for me that is - I still think it was Aliens. *:)

If you take a literal interpretation of Genesis, it was caused by God.
But another way to interpret Genesis is with an eye towards evolution.
Try it sometime - it's a fun exercise.

Science and the scientific method are about provable facts.

True enough. Fairly obvious.

Everything else is religion or philosophy.

I agree - global warming, peak oil, wind/solar energy. *:)

~~ now come one - you just knew that was coming :) *~~

The point was the relevance of creationism in science classes or,
indeed, in public schools. No relevance, should not be discussed except
perhaps as an example of religious superstition.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

There's many things that science can't explain, Harry.

* I myself haven't seen anything in the Bible that would discount dyed-
in-the-wool, rock hard, chiseled-in-stone proof of scientific
anything.

however, I don't see science being the absolute authority on the
beginning of mankind, or beyond *to before the Universes.

So, until science can present solid proof of origins of creation (big
bang theory included) I'll remain a Creationist that believes in
"Intelligent Design"

besides, *even if you leave out the Judao-christian belief system, it
really does no harm to look at another point of view in school as an
option, because I never hear evolution as being called "fact" but I
hear it called "theory" a lot. And weather answerable, or unanswerable
questions, there's too many "what if's" with theory.

I don't care what you or any other "believer" believes...just keep it
out of the public schools.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

Thank you for your input, Harry. I'll take that into consideration.

Wafa is an ignorant idiot, but of course you must just be mocking him
because nobody could really take him seriously...

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
On 10/6/09 2:36 PM, CalifBill wrote:
"H the wrote in message
m...
On 10/6/09 1:59 AM, CalifBill wrote:
"H the wrote in message
m...
On 10/5/09 3:56 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 14:55:29 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

All science is based on "viewpoints". What the heck do you think
drives scientific inquiry? One scientist's view is that Global
Warming
is real. A different scientist looking at the same data calls
bulls**t. Openheimer felt that testing an atom bomb would set the
atmosphere on fire. Others didn't.

None of those "viewpoints" are science however, just opinions or
hypotheses. They become science, or not, after evaluation of the
underlying theory (if any), experimental proof by multiple
individuals, and peer review. Then it's not a viewpoint any longer.


There isn't a thimbleful of evidence of any sort to support
creationism.



How did everything first start?



One of SW Tom's alien ancestors was making a firecracker to show off for
his buddies, and it got a little out of hand...resulting in a Big Bang.



Where did the alien get his start?



From his mommy and daddy, of course.



Maybe they are related to Amoebas. Divide and conquer. Where did Mom and
Dad's predessors spring from?

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
On 10/6/09 2:42 PM, CalifBill wrote:
"H the wrote in message
m...
On 10/6/09 8:27 AM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 06:57:21 -0500,
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 07:42:08 -0400, H the K wrote:


Prayers and religious teachings have no place in public K-12 schools.
You want kids to learn your religion? Send them to a religious
school.

Exactly, we expect and demand the government to stay out of our
churches. It's not the government's responsibility to teach religion.
That's what parents, churches, and religious schools are for.

Let me ask you this.

Would it be acceptable to teach the subject of creationism as part of
the social sciences education? If not, why not?


No. It would be the teaching of a superstitious religious belief.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

Then why teach "science"? Lot of science is beliefs. Lots of beliefs
that
have fallen by the wayside. Can not move faster than the speed of sound.
Lots say we can not go faster than the speed of light. Even Einstein did
not claim that. Just that it would take infinite energy. How can
photon's
get to the speed of light and not use all available energy? You want to
teach only your beliefs. Maybe your beliefs are as screwed up as other
nutcases.



With the passage of time, scientific knowledge expands, and theories are
either proven, expanded, discarded or wait their turn for further proof.
There is not a scintilla of proof for "creationism" or more important, for
the existence of "god." It's all faith-based.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

Maybe the scintilla is just around the corner. You want to stop all looking
for the Scintilla.

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
On 10/6/09 5:45 PM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 15:49:39 -0500,
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 08:27:50 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:


Would it be acceptable to teach the subject of creationism as part of
the social sciences education? If not, why not?

Perhaps, if you include all creationist theories, not just the Christian
one, the Greek Chaos, etc. If you limit yourself to one creation
theory,
you run right into the establishment clause of the First Amendment.

Ok - fair enough. Let's take a hypothetical journey.

You're a Middle School science teacher and as part of the biology
section you teach the section on evolution. Two students, solid A
honor roll types tell you that they believe in the New Earth model as
part of their religious upbringing - that it is a tenant of their
belief system.

What do you do?


Tell them that discussion of their religious beliefs is appropriate at
home, in religious school, or at their house of worship, but not in a
public school.




And they reply the where is the proof of Evolution, Darwinism is still being
questioned, which started this thread.

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:45:57 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:


Perhaps, if you include all creationist theories, not just the Christian
one, the Greek Chaos, etc. If you limit yourself to one creation
theory, you run right into the establishment clause of the First
Amendment.

Ok - fair enough. Let's take a hypothetical journey.

You're a Middle School science teacher and as part of the biology
section you teach the section on evolution. Two students, solid A honor
roll types tell you that they believe in the New Earth model as part of
their religious upbringing - that it is a tenant of their belief system.

What do you do?

These things do get tricky, don't they? As a school teacher it would be
my job to teach evolution, not discourage their belief system. I would
continue to teach evolution, but, I can't see any positive results from
getting into a discussion of their religious tenants.

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

In article d5246d62-d008-48df-86a1-36dd5b083917
@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com, says...

On Oct 5, 8:31*pm, H the K wrote:
On 10/5/09 9:27 PM, Tim wrote:



On Oct 5, 7:48 pm, H the *wrote:
On 10/5/09 7:51 PM, Tim wrote:

On Oct 5, 8:50 am, H the * *wrote:
On 10/5/09 8:48 AM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 08:08:10 -0400, Wayne.B
* * *wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:57:35 -0400,
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 23:09:17 -0400, Wayne.B
* * *wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:36:03 -0400, JohnRant
* * *wrote:

Why should public school students be subjected to the faith based
beliefs of others?

Why should students not be told of the beliefs of others?

That's fine if you're teaching a course on religion, not so fine if
you're teaching a course called science.

There's nothing wrong with mentioning the controversy in a science
class.

We'll have to disagree on that. * Once you accomodate the faith based
belief of your choice in science class, where do you stop?

You can say that about anything. *Mainstreaming special ed students
started off as just one period a day - now it's an entire school day.
Used to be band and drama were after school activities, then one
period a week, then every day.

Just sayin'. *:)

There are quite a few different interpretations of the Book of Genesis,
not to mention all the other religions of the world.

Heh. You know it's funny - most religions, faiths, primitive pagans
and assorted heathens mostly agree - first there was nothing and then
there was something.

Now I grant you, the various reinterpretations of Genesis by flawed
humans promoting their own ideas presents conflicting/competing dogma,
but at the essential points, they are pretty much in agreement.

Well except for me that is - I still think it was Aliens. *:)

If you take a literal interpretation of Genesis, it was caused by God.
But another way to interpret Genesis is with an eye towards evolution.
Try it sometime - it's a fun exercise.

Science and the scientific method are about provable facts.

True enough. Fairly obvious.

Everything else is religion or philosophy.

I agree - global warming, peak oil, wind/solar energy. *:)

~~ now come one - you just knew that was coming :) *~~

The point was the relevance of creationism in science classes or,
indeed, in public schools. No relevance, should not be discussed except
perhaps as an example of religious superstition.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

There's many things that science can't explain, Harry.

* *I myself haven't seen anything in the Bible that would discount dyed-
in-the-wool, rock hard, chiseled-in-stone proof of scientific
anything.

however, I don't see science being the absolute authority on the
beginning of mankind, or beyond *to before the Universes.

So, until science can present solid proof of origins of creation (big
bang theory included) I'll remain a Creationist that believes in
"Intelligent Design"

besides, *even if you leave out the Judao-christian belief system, it
really does no harm to look at another point of view in school as an
option, because I never hear evolution as being called "fact" but I
hear it called "theory" a lot. And weather answerable, or unanswerable
questions, there's too many "what if's" with theory.

I don't care what you or any other "believer" believes...just keep it
out of the public schools.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

Thank you for your input, Harry. I'll take that into consideration.

I don't mean that in a negative way, Tim. I simply am opposed to the
*teaching* of any sort of religious beliefs in the K-12 public schools.

I am 100% supportive of private religious beliefs that are taught at
home, in church/synagogue/mosque schools and at the various houses of
worship.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

I'm sorry if I took it a bit personal,Harry. I'm not a "Crammer" but I
believe it (Creationism) should be allowed as an option.or at least
not discouraged.

**** him, he really doesn't really mean it. I have never had anybody
push religeon on any of my family, but many times have had athiests push
their agenda on them and me, mocking our beliefs...

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

On 10/6/09 8:31 PM, tiny wrote:

**** him, he really doesn't really mean it. I have never had anybody
push religeon on any of my family, but many times have had athiests push
their agenda on them and me, mocking our beliefs...


Atheists ring Justhate's doorbell on weekday nights, trying to convert
the Justhates to atheists.





--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

vatican astronomer blasts creationism
 

In article 21f4b407-4f49-4843-a8b2-
, says...

On Oct 5, 9:00*pm, H the K wrote:
On 10/5/09 9:57 PM, Tim wrote:



On Oct 5, 8:54 pm, H the *wrote:
On 10/5/09 9:40 PM, Tim wrote:

On Oct 5, 8:31 pm, H the * *wrote:
On 10/5/09 9:27 PM, Tim wrote:

On Oct 5, 7:48 pm, H the * * *wrote:
On 10/5/09 7:51 PM, Tim wrote:

On Oct 5, 8:50 am, H the * * * *wrote:
On 10/5/09 8:48 AM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 08:08:10 -0400, Wayne.B
* * * * *wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:57:35 -0400,
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 23:09:17 -0400, Wayne.B
* * * * *wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:36:03 -0400, JohnRant
* * * * *wrote:

Why should public school students be subjected to the faith based
beliefs of others?

Why should students not be told of the beliefs of others?

That's fine if you're teaching a course on religion, not so fine if
you're teaching a course called science.

There's nothing wrong with mentioning the controversy in a science
class.

We'll have to disagree on that. * Once you accomodate the faith based
belief of your choice in science class, where do you stop?

You can say that about anything. *Mainstreaming special ed students
started off as just one period a day - now it's an entire school day.
Used to be band and drama were after school activities, then one
period a week, then every day.

Just sayin'. *:)

There are quite a few different interpretations of the Book of Genesis,
not to mention all the other religions of the world.

Heh. You know it's funny - most religions, faiths, primitive pagans
and assorted heathens mostly agree - first there was nothing and then
there was something.

Now I grant you, the various reinterpretations of Genesis by flawed
humans promoting their own ideas presents conflicting/competing dogma,
but at the essential points, they are pretty much in agreement.

Well except for me that is - I still think it was Aliens. *:)

If you take a literal interpretation of Genesis, it was caused by God.
But another way to interpret Genesis is with an eye towards evolution.
Try it sometime - it's a fun exercise.

Science and the scientific method are about provable facts.

True enough. Fairly obvious.

Everything else is religion or philosophy.

I agree - global warming, peak oil, wind/solar energy. *:)

~~ now come one - you just knew that was coming :) *~~

The point was the relevance of creationism in science classes or,
indeed, in public schools. No relevance, should not be discussed except
perhaps as an example of religious superstition.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

There's many things that science can't explain, Harry.

* * *I myself haven't seen anything in the Bible that would discount dyed-
in-the-wool, rock hard, chiseled-in-stone proof of scientific
anything.

however, I don't see science being the absolute authority on the
beginning of mankind, or beyond *to before the Universes.

So, until science can present solid proof of origins of creation (big
bang theory included) I'll remain a Creationist that believes in
"Intelligent Design"

besides, *even if you leave out the Judao-christian belief system, it
really does no harm to look at another point of view in school as an
option, because I never hear evolution as being called "fact" but I
hear it called "theory" a lot. And weather answerable, or unanswerable
questions, there's too many "what if's" with theory.

I don't care what you or any other "believer" believes...just keep it
out of the public schools.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

Thank you for your input, Harry. I'll take that into consideration.

I don't mean that in a negative way, Tim. I simply am opposed to the
*teaching* of any sort of religious beliefs in the K-12 public schools.

I am 100% supportive of private religious beliefs that are taught at
home, in church/synagogue/mosque schools and at the various houses of
worship.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

I'm sorry if I took it a bit personal,Harry. I'm not a "Crammer" but I
believe it (Creationism) should be allowed as an option.or at least
not discouraged.

You'll get no argument from me, so long as creationism is not taught in
the public schools.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

harry, I take it you wouldnt' consider it an option. so....

I suppose we could argue.

But i won't

A *taught* option in the public schools?

Absolutely not.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

Everything in school is "Taught" Harry. Otherwise it wouldn't' be a
school.

Harry only wants his brand of socialism taught in schools. His type
can't handle open debate so they just ban or mock opposing opinions..
Still don't see why intelligent folks would fool with the fat little
****er...