wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:31:57 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

It may seem a scam at this very moment, but I believe it will get
lined out in the future and become very cost effective, and the
technology grows.

take a look at where the computer has gone from the ABC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atanaso...Berry_Computer

then the ENIAC , not only in costs but capabilities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC

I'pods and memory sticks have more capabilities than the top computers
10 years ago.

I may be wrong, but I think that the hydro-cell has a place in the
near future.

Anything "new" is cost prohibitive .


Computers don't violate the laws of physics.
It takes as much energy to get hydrogen out of a compound as you get
when you put it back. It is a chemical battery.


It's a matter of efficency, not of changing the laws of physics.

--
Nom=de=Plume

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:28:24 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Computers don't violate the laws of physics.
It takes as much energy to get hydrogen out of a compound as you get
when you put it back. It is a chemical battery.


It's a matter of efficency, not of changing the laws of physics.

If it costs as exactly much energy to get hydrogen as you get when you
use it (perfect efficiency) it still isn't a fuel, it is just a good
battery. Unfortunately the losses are pretty big.
This is great for the space program where cost is no object but not
very practical competing with Li ON batteries, or even lead.

I suppose you could start with elemental hydrogen but most commercial
hydrogen comes from natural gas wells The problem is it is a lot more
expensive.
Why not just use the natural gas? The CLNE solution.


Why not use batteries that can be recharged by a small amount of a known
commodity that's already fairly inexpensive... diesel or natural gas or
whatever. Diesel is ubiquitous, which decreases the hassle factor. Someone
said you still have to get the hydrogen right?

--
Nom=de=Plume

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 01:08:19 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

If it costs as exactly much energy to get hydrogen as you get when you
use it (perfect efficiency) it still isn't a fuel, it is just a good
battery. Unfortunately the losses are pretty big.
This is great for the space program where cost is no object but not
very practical competing with Li ON batteries, or even lead.

I suppose you could start with elemental hydrogen but most commercial
hydrogen comes from natural gas wells The problem is it is a lot more
expensive.
Why not just use the natural gas? The CLNE solution.


Why not use batteries that can be recharged by a small amount of a known
commodity that's already fairly inexpensive... diesel or natural gas or
whatever. Diesel is ubiquitous, which decreases the hassle factor. Someone
said you still have to get the hydrogen right?

If you are burning diesel, why do you need a battery?
I thought we were trying to get away from fossil fuels.



Because you don't have to burn so much or so often. That's what happens with
hybrids. They burn a lot less fuel. They're not perfect, but nothing is
perfect.

--
Nom=de=Plume

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:15:00 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 01:08:19 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

If it costs as exactly much energy to get hydrogen as you get when you
use it (perfect efficiency) it still isn't a fuel, it is just a good
battery. Unfortunately the losses are pretty big.
This is great for the space program where cost is no object but not
very practical competing with Li ON batteries, or even lead.

I suppose you could start with elemental hydrogen but most commercial
hydrogen comes from natural gas wells The problem is it is a lot more
expensive.
Why not just use the natural gas? The CLNE solution.


Why not use batteries that can be recharged by a small amount of a known
commodity that's already fairly inexpensive... diesel or natural gas or
whatever. Diesel is ubiquitous, which decreases the hassle factor.
Someone
said you still have to get the hydrogen right?

If you are burning diesel, why do you need a battery?
I thought we were trying to get away from fossil fuels.



Because you don't have to burn so much or so often. That's what happens
with
hybrids. They burn a lot less fuel. They're not perfect, but nothing is
perfect.

A lot of that depends on your driving patterns If you are in stop and
go traffic, the hybrid will save fuel. On the interstate I don't see
it saving much over any car with a small engine. As soon as you
deplete the battery, it is just running on the engine. I was always
curious how a Prius performs on the highway after 50 miles (or however
long the battery can help it).
I know Bill Maher changed his opinion of his Prius after he owned it a
while. He ended up saying it was just a car with a small motor that
gets pretty good mileage. I assume he based that on freeway driving.
When I saw some independent tests comparing the Civic with a
comparable Civic hybrid the highway ratings were virtually the same,
actually giving the edge to the regular Civic at higher speeds.


I have a friend who claims over 40 mpg on the highway. I believe the Civic
does do almost as well on the highway. Most of our driving though is under
40 miles I believe... it should be all electric and rechargeable overnight.
The diesel should only be used if absolutely necessary. I heard the new
Prius comes with a solar panel roof. That sounds good.

--
Nom=de=Plume

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 12:56:23 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

A lot of that depends on your driving patterns If you are in stop and
go traffic, the hybrid will save fuel. On the interstate I don't see
it saving much over any car with a small engine. As soon as you
deplete the battery, it is just running on the engine. I was always
curious how a Prius performs on the highway after 50 miles (or however
long the battery can help it).
I know Bill Maher changed his opinion of his Prius after he owned it a
while. He ended up saying it was just a car with a small motor that
gets pretty good mileage. I assume he based that on freeway driving.
When I saw some independent tests comparing the Civic with a
comparable Civic hybrid the highway ratings were virtually the same,
actually giving the edge to the regular Civic at higher speeds.


I have a friend who claims over 40 mpg on the highway. I believe the Civic
does do almost as well on the highway. Most of our driving though is under
40 miles I believe... it should be all electric and rechargeable
overnight.
The diesel should only be used if absolutely necessary. I heard the new
Prius comes with a solar panel roof. That sounds good.

I think the regular Civic is closer to 50MPG highway.

If you look at the thread we had about solar battery chargers a week
or so ago you see it takes a lot of collector to do much good. They
want more collector than will fit on a Prius roof, just to run a 1/2hp
pool pump. (my next solar project)


I haven't really looked at what is on the Prius. It must do something
useful.

--
Nom=de=Plume

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:52:23 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:15:00 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 01:08:19 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

If it costs as exactly much energy to get hydrogen as you get when you
use it (perfect efficiency) it still isn't a fuel, it is just a good
battery. Unfortunately the losses are pretty big.
This is great for the space program where cost is no object but not
very practical competing with Li ON batteries, or even lead.

I suppose you could start with elemental hydrogen but most commercial
hydrogen comes from natural gas wells The problem is it is a lot more
expensive.
Why not just use the natural gas? The CLNE solution.


Why not use batteries that can be recharged by a small amount of a known
commodity that's already fairly inexpensive... diesel or natural gas or
whatever. Diesel is ubiquitous, which decreases the hassle factor. Someone
said you still have to get the hydrogen right?

If you are burning diesel, why do you need a battery?
I thought we were trying to get away from fossil fuels.



Because you don't have to burn so much or so often. That's what happens with
hybrids. They burn a lot less fuel. They're not perfect, but nothing is
perfect.

A lot of that depends on your driving patterns If you are in stop and
go traffic, the hybrid will save fuel. On the interstate I don't see
it saving much over any car with a small engine. As soon as you
deplete the battery, it is just running on the engine. I was always
curious how a Prius performs on the highway after 50 miles (or however
long the battery can help it).
I know Bill Maher changed his opinion of his Prius after he owned it a
while. He ended up saying it was just a car with a small motor that
gets pretty good mileage. I assume he based that on freeway driving.
When I saw some independent tests comparing the Civic with a
comparable Civic hybrid the highway ratings were virtually the same,
actually giving the edge to the regular Civic at higher speeds.

Most of the Prius I see around here have an Obama sticker on the back.
I think that sticker alone will add five or ten miles per gallon.
--

John H

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
Most of the Prius I see around here have an Obama sticker on the back.
I think that sticker alone will add five or ten miles per gallon.
--

John H

Funny... reminds me of the new Survivor series on TV. Have you heard? It's
going to be in Texas. They have two groups as usual, and one of the
eliminations is to drive across Texas in a Volvo with a bumpersticker that
says, "I'm gay, I'm a Democrat, and I'm here to take your guns."

--
Nom=de=Plume

nom=de=plume wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...
Most of the Prius I see around here have an Obama sticker on the back.
I think that sticker alone will add five or ten miles per gallon.
--

John H

Funny... reminds me of the new Survivor series on TV. Have you heard? It's
going to be in Texas. They have two groups as usual, and one of the
eliminations is to drive across Texas in a Volvo with a bumpersticker that
says, "I'm gay, I'm a Democrat, and I'm here to take your guns."



Perfectly safe...only one in 20 male Texans can read. The rest of the
males are busy humping their sisters, first cousins and steers.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

H the K wrote:
nom=de=plume wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...
Most of the Prius I see around here have an Obama sticker on the back.
I think that sticker alone will add five or ten miles per gallon.
--

John H

Funny... reminds me of the new Survivor series on TV. Have you heard?
It's going to be in Texas. They have two groups as usual, and one of
the eliminations is to drive across Texas in a Volvo with a
bumpersticker that says, "I'm gay, I'm a Democrat, and I'm here to
take your guns."



Perfectly safe...only one in 20 male Texans can read. The rest of the
males are busy humping their sisters, first cousins and steers.


This is bought to you courtesy of a "professional" writer!

WAFA!

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:53:27 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
Most of the Prius I see around here have an Obama sticker on the back.
I think that sticker alone will add five or ten miles per gallon.
--

John H

Funny... reminds me of the new Survivor series on TV. Have you heard? It's
going to be in Texas. They have two groups as usual, and one of the
eliminations is to drive across Texas in a Volvo with a bumpersticker that
says, "I'm gay, I'm a Democrat, and I'm here to take your guns."

He should park it in the new Cowboys stadium on game night.
--

John H