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Americans working much harder – for less pay
On Aug 13, 7:19*am, Tim wrote:
On Aug 13, 5:19*am, wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 4:34*am, Tim wrote: On Aug 12, 9:03*pm, wf3h wrote: On Aug 12, 8:19*pm, Tim wrote: On Aug 12, 6:53*pm, wf3h wrote: that's correct. i work honestly for my living. i don't sell CDO's, derivatives, REIT, or other financial instruments that have made the rich so rich, and, when they trashed their own bank accounts, they came and raided mine many wealthy do too!, tell you what. you go find the record of how many middle class people work their way into the top 2% of americans and get back to us on that... find out how many children of blue collar workers go to the ivy league...the gateway to networking...actually i know the answer to that. it's less than 3% so, actually, many wealthy don't work. they take my money so they don't have to work for theirs. they kill my pension plan, destroy my 401K, and get me to pay for their bailouts THEN they get people like you to tell me how fortunate i am they let me do this. Well actually, "they" don't get me to do much of anything for "them" and I'm not "they're spokesman, but your statement is correct when you say "so, actually, many wealthy don't work. " and you're correct. I wouldn't' work if I were rich either. Now you keep saying things like "pay for bailouts" hmmm, I think you are bagging those of wealth and labeling them all as financial institutions employees, aren't you? It seems that way or at least it does to me.- uh...who owns those financial institutions? those folks are called 'wealthy' I thought the owners were share holders who own publicly traded stock.?- i don't own 51% of any company. |
Americans working much harder =3F for less pay
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Americans working much harder – for less pay
Tim wrote:
On Aug 13, 6:13 am, JLH wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 03:19:35 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 4:34 am, Tim wrote: On Aug 12, 9:03 pm, wf3h wrote: On Aug 12, 8:19 pm, Tim wrote: On Aug 12, 6:53 pm, wf3h wrote: that's correct. i work honestly for my living. i don't sell CDO's, derivatives, REIT, or other financial instruments that have made the rich so rich, and, when they trashed their own bank accounts, they came and raided mine many wealthy do too!, tell you what. you go find the record of how many middle class people work their way into the top 2% of americans and get back to us on that... find out how many children of blue collar workers go to the ivy league...the gateway to networking...actually i know the answer to that. it's less than 3% so, actually, many wealthy don't work. they take my money so they don't have to work for theirs. they kill my pension plan, destroy my 401K, and get me to pay for their bailouts THEN they get people like you to tell me how fortunate i am they let me do this. Well actually, "they" don't get me to do much of anything for "them" and I'm not "they're spokesman, but your statement is correct when you say "so, actually, many wealthy don't work. " and you're correct. I wouldn't' work if I were rich either. Now you keep saying things like "pay for bailouts" hmmm, I think you are bagging those of wealth and labeling them all as financial institutions employees, aren't you? It seems that way or at least it does to me.- uh...who owns those financial institutions? those folks are called 'wealthy' Well, I'm part owner of a couple, and I don't consider myself 'wealthy' (in the material sense, that is). -- John H All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking. John I suppose you could be right. We need to define wealthy, and rich. Just ask Harry, in his fantasy narcissist world, he is both! |
Americans working much harder – for less pay
wf3h wrote:
On Aug 13, 7:28 am, JLH wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:22:21 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:13 am, JLH wrote: Well, I'm part owner of a couple, and I don't consider myself 'wealthy' (in the material sense, that is). -- yeah so am i. i own about 10 shares of goldman sachs in my 401k portfolio. big shwoop. Then quit ****ing and moaning about the owners being wealthy (in the material sense, of course). ROFLMAO!! why? do you think that having had the big boys raid my 401k to maintain their lifestyles makes me rich? you right wingers have quite an imagination. Oh, and quit calling names and hurling personal insults. They don't help your arguments. Krause has been doing it for years. Hasn't helped him at all. -- ?? now let's see...the right invents lies such as obama putting people in concentration camps, forming death panels, etc. THEN when they get called on it, they moan they're being treated unfairly... You are correct! The lies about the death panel crap that is coming from the right is dishonest, and they know it, that is IF they read that part. |
Americans working much harder – for less pay
On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 03:16:24 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote: snip Maybe the deadwood went first. yeah, that's the cliche they want you to believe Stuff happens. My wife is the I.T. manager at a steel products company in the Chicago 'burbs. Managers in general have their 'enemies' and 'spies' list with them at all times in their heads. The president of the company went one step further and arranged to install a completely illegal phone tap system. One particular inside sales order taker was pulling down an unusually high salary for someone in her position, on recommendations from an out of state VP of Sales. Also a general whiner-and-complainer... When the tap was moved to her line (5 taps total), the VP's reason for said recommendations became very clear. SHE WAS PERFORMING PHONE SEX FOR THE VP!!! Now, we shall call her Farrah Drippin' Faucet, as she turned out to be a Couger that enjoyed trips up and down the Hershey Highway with the maintenance manager, Georgie Boy. Now Bob the VP was a very lucky boy indeed. Not only did he posess a name that when he became confused or didn't have enough cofee yet and spelled his name backwards it was OK, but he had a highly paid phone prostitute to talk to on weekdays. Guess who was in the first wave to go... |
Americans working much harder - for less pay
"NotNow" wrote in message ... D wrote: jps wrote: On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:03:52 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:10:59 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote: jps wrote: Feel like you're working a lot harder these days, putting in longer hours for the same pay - or even less? The latest round of government data on worker productivity indicates that you probably are. The Labor Department said Tuesday that the American work force produced, at an annual rate, 6.4 percent more of the goods they made and services they provided in the second quarter of this year compared to a year ago. At the same time, "unit labor costs" - the amount employers paid for all that extra work - fell by 5.8 percent. The jump in productivity was higher than expected; the cut in labor costs more than double expectations. That is, despite the deep job cuts of the past year, workers who remain on the payroll are filling in and making up the work that had been done by their departed colleagues. In some cases, that extra work came with a smaller paycheck. Full story here... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32374533...n_the_economy/ On todays production lines the volume can be increased without a corresponding increase in the effort of the individual. So a 6.4% increase in production does not mean that the employee is being overworked as implied. Don't know if you're heard, we don't have production lines here anymore. We're in the service business and military arms. The productivity gains come from less workers doing more, working longer hours for pay that doesn't keep up with the rising cost of living. No production, so we could not raise productivity. You kept all your deadwood. You don't have to produce on a line to be productive. We write software, it doesn't benefit from a faster production line. We are doing more with less people. When times are lean, that's the way it works. Did you ever work for an entreprenurial company or only behemoths? How well are those German screwdrivers helping you write software? That's what I was thinking, how do you write software with a screwdriver! He's lying like Harry of course, you'll see no evidence of his work. I will support jps here. I wrote software for embedded systems. Most for years was in PROM's. So you had to take the screw driver and open up the case to pop out the old PROM and install the new one. |
Americans working much harder - for less pay
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:09:38 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote: "NotNow" wrote in message ... D wrote: jps wrote: On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:03:52 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:10:59 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote: jps wrote: Feel like you're working a lot harder these days, putting in longer hours for the same pay - or even less? The latest round of government data on worker productivity indicates that you probably are. The Labor Department said Tuesday that the American work force produced, at an annual rate, 6.4 percent more of the goods they made and services they provided in the second quarter of this year compared to a year ago. At the same time, "unit labor costs" - the amount employers paid for all that extra work - fell by 5.8 percent. The jump in productivity was higher than expected; the cut in labor costs more than double expectations. That is, despite the deep job cuts of the past year, workers who remain on the payroll are filling in and making up the work that had been done by their departed colleagues. In some cases, that extra work came with a smaller paycheck. Full story here... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32374533...n_the_economy/ On todays production lines the volume can be increased without a corresponding increase in the effort of the individual. So a 6.4% increase in production does not mean that the employee is being overworked as implied. Don't know if you're heard, we don't have production lines here anymore. We're in the service business and military arms. The productivity gains come from less workers doing more, working longer hours for pay that doesn't keep up with the rising cost of living. No production, so we could not raise productivity. You kept all your deadwood. You don't have to produce on a line to be productive. We write software, it doesn't benefit from a faster production line. We are doing more with less people. When times are lean, that's the way it works. Did you ever work for an entreprenurial company or only behemoths? How well are those German screwdrivers helping you write software? That's what I was thinking, how do you write software with a screwdriver! He's lying like Harry of course, you'll see no evidence of his work. I will support jps here. I wrote software for embedded systems. Most for years was in PROM's. So you had to take the screw driver and open up the case to pop out the old PROM and install the new one. A trifecta. Three assholes in a row. |
Americans working much harder - for less pay
Calif Bill wrote:
"NotNow" wrote in message ... D wrote: jps wrote: On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:03:52 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:10:59 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote: jps wrote: Feel like you're working a lot harder these days, putting in longer hours for the same pay - or even less? The latest round of government data on worker productivity indicates that you probably are. The Labor Department said Tuesday that the American work force produced, at an annual rate, 6.4 percent more of the goods they made and services they provided in the second quarter of this year compared to a year ago. At the same time, "unit labor costs" - the amount employers paid for all that extra work - fell by 5.8 percent. The jump in productivity was higher than expected; the cut in labor costs more than double expectations. That is, despite the deep job cuts of the past year, workers who remain on the payroll are filling in and making up the work that had been done by their departed colleagues. In some cases, that extra work came with a smaller paycheck. Full story here... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32374533...n_the_economy/ On todays production lines the volume can be increased without a corresponding increase in the effort of the individual. So a 6.4% increase in production does not mean that the employee is being overworked as implied. Don't know if you're heard, we don't have production lines here anymore. We're in the service business and military arms. The productivity gains come from less workers doing more, working longer hours for pay that doesn't keep up with the rising cost of living. No production, so we could not raise productivity. You kept all your deadwood. You don't have to produce on a line to be productive. We write software, it doesn't benefit from a faster production line. We are doing more with less people. When times are lean, that's the way it works. Did you ever work for an entreprenurial company or only behemoths? How well are those German screwdrivers helping you write software? That's what I was thinking, how do you write software with a screwdriver! He's lying like Harry of course, you'll see no evidence of his work. I will support jps here. I wrote software for embedded systems. Most for years was in PROM's. So you had to take the screw driver and open up the case to pop out the old PROM and install the new one. And it'd take high dollar German made screwdrivers to pry open the case?! |
Americans working much harder - for less pay
"jps" wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:09:38 -0700, "Calif Bill" wrote: "NotNow" wrote in message ... D wrote: jps wrote: On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:03:52 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:10:59 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote: jps wrote: Feel like you're working a lot harder these days, putting in longer hours for the same pay - or even less? The latest round of government data on worker productivity indicates that you probably are. The Labor Department said Tuesday that the American work force produced, at an annual rate, 6.4 percent more of the goods they made and services they provided in the second quarter of this year compared to a year ago. At the same time, "unit labor costs" - the amount employers paid for all that extra work - fell by 5.8 percent. The jump in productivity was higher than expected; the cut in labor costs more than double expectations. That is, despite the deep job cuts of the past year, workers who remain on the payroll are filling in and making up the work that had been done by their departed colleagues. In some cases, that extra work came with a smaller paycheck. Full story here... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32374533...n_the_economy/ On todays production lines the volume can be increased without a corresponding increase in the effort of the individual. So a 6.4% increase in production does not mean that the employee is being overworked as implied. Don't know if you're heard, we don't have production lines here anymore. We're in the service business and military arms. The productivity gains come from less workers doing more, working longer hours for pay that doesn't keep up with the rising cost of living. No production, so we could not raise productivity. You kept all your deadwood. You don't have to produce on a line to be productive. We write software, it doesn't benefit from a faster production line. We are doing more with less people. When times are lean, that's the way it works. Did you ever work for an entreprenurial company or only behemoths? How well are those German screwdrivers helping you write software? That's what I was thinking, how do you write software with a screwdriver! He's lying like Harry of course, you'll see no evidence of his work. I will support jps here. I wrote software for embedded systems. Most for years was in PROM's. So you had to take the screw driver and open up the case to pop out the old PROM and install the new one. A trifecta. Three assholes in a row. Make that 4 assholes in a row. And I was even defending software guys with screwdrivers. |
Americans working much harder - for less pay
"NotNow" wrote in message ... Calif Bill wrote: "NotNow" wrote in message ... D wrote: jps wrote: On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:03:52 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:10:59 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote: jps wrote: Feel like you're working a lot harder these days, putting in longer hours for the same pay - or even less? The latest round of government data on worker productivity indicates that you probably are. The Labor Department said Tuesday that the American work force produced, at an annual rate, 6.4 percent more of the goods they made and services they provided in the second quarter of this year compared to a year ago. At the same time, "unit labor costs" - the amount employers paid for all that extra work - fell by 5.8 percent. The jump in productivity was higher than expected; the cut in labor costs more than double expectations. That is, despite the deep job cuts of the past year, workers who remain on the payroll are filling in and making up the work that had been done by their departed colleagues. In some cases, that extra work came with a smaller paycheck. Full story here... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32374533...n_the_economy/ On todays production lines the volume can be increased without a corresponding increase in the effort of the individual. So a 6.4% increase in production does not mean that the employee is being overworked as implied. Don't know if you're heard, we don't have production lines here anymore. We're in the service business and military arms. The productivity gains come from less workers doing more, working longer hours for pay that doesn't keep up with the rising cost of living. No production, so we could not raise productivity. You kept all your deadwood. You don't have to produce on a line to be productive. We write software, it doesn't benefit from a faster production line. We are doing more with less people. When times are lean, that's the way it works. Did you ever work for an entreprenurial company or only behemoths? How well are those German screwdrivers helping you write software? That's what I was thinking, how do you write software with a screwdriver! He's lying like Harry of course, you'll see no evidence of his work. I will support jps here. I wrote software for embedded systems. Most for years was in PROM's. So you had to take the screw driver and open up the case to pop out the old PROM and install the new one. And it'd take high dollar German made screwdrivers to pry open the case?! No, we used the pocket knife at times. Only real problem we had is the guy who originally designed the case had designed military tanks. So all screws were stainless. Case was sheet aluminum. Could never get the Engineering change board to sign off on changing the stainless to plated Keps. Then the assembly people could have used the magnetic power screwdrivers with even better production results. |
Americans working much harder – for less pay
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:05:45 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote: On Aug 13, 7:28*am, JLH wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:22:21 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:13*am, JLH wrote: Well, I'm part owner of a couple, and I don't consider myself 'wealthy' (in the material sense, that is). -- yeah so am i. i own about 10 shares of goldman sachs in my 401k portfolio. big shwoop. Then quit ****ing and moaning about the owners being wealthy (in the material sense, of course). ROFLMAO!! why? do you think that having had the big boys raid my 401k to maintain their lifestyles makes me rich? you right wingers have quite an imagination. Oh, and quit calling names and hurling personal insults. They don't help your arguments. Krause has been doing it for years. Hasn't helped him at all. -- ?? now let's see...the right invents lies such as obama putting people in concentration camps, forming death panels, etc. THEN when they get called on it, they moan they're being treated unfairly... Calling someone for an error can be done without the personal insults and name-calling. You stated the owners of banks were wealthy. You made an error, which I pointed out. No names were called. Not necessary. -- John H All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking. |
Americans working much harder – for less pay
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:42:14 -0400, NotNow wrote:
wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:28 am, JLH wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:22:21 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:13 am, JLH wrote: Well, I'm part owner of a couple, and I don't consider myself 'wealthy' (in the material sense, that is). -- yeah so am i. i own about 10 shares of goldman sachs in my 401k portfolio. big shwoop. Then quit ****ing and moaning about the owners being wealthy (in the material sense, of course). ROFLMAO!! why? do you think that having had the big boys raid my 401k to maintain their lifestyles makes me rich? you right wingers have quite an imagination. Oh, and quit calling names and hurling personal insults. They don't help your arguments. Krause has been doing it for years. Hasn't helped him at all. -- ?? now let's see...the right invents lies such as obama putting people in concentration camps, forming death panels, etc. THEN when they get called on it, they moan they're being treated unfairly... You are correct! The lies about the death panel crap that is coming from the right is dishonest, and they know it, that is IF they read that part. From page 429: ‘‘(B) An advance care planning consultation with re2 spect to an individual may be conducted more frequently 3 than provided under paragraph (1) if there is a significant 4 change in the health condition of the individual, including 5 diagnosis of a chronic, progressive, life-limiting disease, a 6 life-threatening or terminal diagnosis or life-threatening 7 injury, or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a 8 long-term care facility (as defined by the Secretary), or 9 a hospice program. 10 ‘‘(4) A consultation under this subsection may in11 clude the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining 12 treatment or a similar order. 13 ‘‘(5)(A) For purposes of this section, the term ‘order 14 regarding life sustaining treatment’ means, with respect 15 to an individual, an actionable medical order relating to 16 the treatment of that individual that— Note line 10. Pretty scary, huh? Why is this here? ‘‘(iii) A program for orders for life sustaining 16 treatment for a States described in this clause is a 17 program that— some lines snipped... 5 ‘‘(IV) is guided by a coalition of stake 6holders includes representatives from emergency 7 medical services, emergency department physi8 cians or nurses, state long-term care associa9 tion, state medical association, state surveyors, 10 agency responsible for senior services, state de11 partment of health, state hospital association, 12 home health association, state bar association, 13 and state hospice association. Sure sounds like a panel, doesn't it? -- John H All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking. |
Americans working much harder – for less pay
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:06:10 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote: On Aug 13, 7:19*am, Tim wrote: On Aug 13, 5:19*am, wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 4:34*am, Tim wrote: On Aug 12, 9:03*pm, wf3h wrote: On Aug 12, 8:19*pm, Tim wrote: On Aug 12, 6:53*pm, wf3h wrote: that's correct. i work honestly for my living. i don't sell CDO's, derivatives, REIT, or other financial instruments that have made the rich so rich, and, when they trashed their own bank accounts, they came and raided mine many wealthy do too!, tell you what. you go find the record of how many middle class people work their way into the top 2% of americans and get back to us on that... find out how many children of blue collar workers go to the ivy league...the gateway to networking...actually i know the answer to that. it's less than 3% so, actually, many wealthy don't work. they take my money so they don't have to work for theirs. they kill my pension plan, destroy my 401K, and get me to pay for their bailouts THEN they get people like you to tell me how fortunate i am they let me do this. Well actually, "they" don't get me to do much of anything for "them" and I'm not "they're spokesman, but your statement is correct when you say "so, actually, many wealthy don't work. " and you're correct. I wouldn't' work if I were rich either. Now you keep saying things like "pay for bailouts" hmmm, I think you are bagging those of wealth and labeling them all as financial institutions employees, aren't you? It seems that way or at least it does to me.- uh...who owns those financial institutions? those folks are called 'wealthy' I thought the owners were share holders who own publicly traded stock.?- i don't own 51% of any company. Do you vote the shares you own? -- John H All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking. |
Americans working much harder ? for less pay
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Americans working much harder ? for less pay
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Americans working much harder – for less pay
On Aug 13, 5:50*pm, JLH wrote:
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:06:10 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:19*am, Tim wrote: On Aug 13, 5:19*am, wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 4:34*am, Tim wrote: On Aug 12, 9:03*pm, wf3h wrote: On Aug 12, 8:19*pm, Tim wrote: On Aug 12, 6:53*pm, wf3h wrote: that's correct. i work honestly for my living. i don't sell CDO's, derivatives, REIT, or other financial instruments that have made the rich so rich, and, when they trashed their own bank accounts, they came and raided mine many wealthy do too!, tell you what. you go find the record of how many middle class people work their way into the top 2% of americans and get back to us on that... find out how many children of blue collar workers go to the ivy league...the gateway to networking...actually i know the answer to that. it's less than 3% so, actually, many wealthy don't work. they take my money so they don't have to work for theirs. they kill my pension plan, destroy my 401K, and get me to pay for their bailouts THEN they get people like you to tell me how fortunate i am they let me do this. Well actually, "they" don't get me to do much of anything for "them" and I'm not "they're spokesman, but your statement is correct when you say "so, actually, many wealthy don't work. " and you're correct. I wouldn't' work if I were rich either. Now you keep saying things like "pay for bailouts" hmmm, I think you are bagging those of wealth and labeling them all as financial institutions employees, aren't you? It seems that way or at least it does to me.- uh...who owns those financial institutions? those folks are called 'wealthy' I thought the owners were share holders who own publicly traded stock.?- i don't own 51% of any company. Do you vote the shares you own? both of 'em? |
Americans working much harder – for less pay
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:50:24 -0400, JLH
wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:06:10 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:19*am, Tim wrote: On Aug 13, 5:19*am, wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 4:34*am, Tim wrote: On Aug 12, 9:03*pm, wf3h wrote: On Aug 12, 8:19*pm, Tim wrote: On Aug 12, 6:53*pm, wf3h wrote: that's correct. i work honestly for my living. i don't sell CDO's, derivatives, REIT, or other financial instruments that have made the rich so rich, and, when they trashed their own bank accounts, they came and raided mine many wealthy do too!, tell you what. you go find the record of how many middle class people work their way into the top 2% of americans and get back to us on that... find out how many children of blue collar workers go to the ivy league...the gateway to networking...actually i know the answer to that. it's less than 3% so, actually, many wealthy don't work. they take my money so they don't have to work for theirs. they kill my pension plan, destroy my 401K, and get me to pay for their bailouts THEN they get people like you to tell me how fortunate i am they let me do this. Well actually, "they" don't get me to do much of anything for "them" and I'm not "they're spokesman, but your statement is correct when you say "so, actually, many wealthy don't work. " and you're correct. I wouldn't' work if I were rich either. Now you keep saying things like "pay for bailouts" hmmm, I think you are bagging those of wealth and labeling them all as financial institutions employees, aren't you? It seems that way or at least it does to me.- uh...who owns those financial institutions? those folks are called 'wealthy' I thought the owners were share holders who own publicly traded stock.?- i don't own 51% of any company. Do you vote the shares you own? Extremely humorous. Own 100 shares, 1000, 100000, a million? Someone owns several orders magnitude more and they make the decisions. Not folks who own hundredths of a percent. |
Americans working much harder – for less pay
On Aug 13, 5:13*pm, JLH wrote:
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:42:14 -0400, NotNow wrote: wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:28 am, JLH wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:22:21 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:13 am, JLH wrote: Well, I'm part owner of a couple, and I don't consider myself 'wealthy' (in the material sense, that is). -- yeah so am i. i own about 10 shares of goldman sachs in my 401k portfolio. big shwoop. Then quit ****ing and moaning about the owners being wealthy (in the material sense, of course). ROFLMAO!! why? do you think that having had the big boys raid my 401k to maintain their lifestyles makes me rich? you right wingers have quite an imagination. Oh, and quit calling names and hurling personal insults. They don't help your arguments. Krause has been doing it for years. Hasn't helped him at all. -- ?? now let's see...the right invents lies such as obama putting people in concentration camps, forming death panels, etc. THEN when they get called on it, they moan they're being treated unfairly... You are correct! The lies about the death panel crap that is coming from the right is dishonest, and they know it, that is IF they read that part.. From page 429: ‘‘(B) An advance care planning consultation with re2 spect to an individual may be conducted more frequently 3 than provided under paragraph (1) if there is a significant 4 change in the health condition of the individual, including 5 diagnosis of a chronic, progressive, life-limiting disease, a 6 life-threatening or terminal diagnosis or life-threatening 7 injury, or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a 8 long-term care facility (as defined by the Secretary), or 9 a hospice program. 10 ‘‘(4) A consultation under this subsection may in11 clude the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining 12 treatment or a similar order. 13 ‘‘(5)(A) For purposes of this section, the term ‘order 14 regarding life sustaining treatment’ means, with respect 15 to an individual, an actionable medical order relating to 16 the treatment of that individual that— Note line 10. Pretty scary, huh? Why is this here? ‘‘(iii) A program for orders for life sustaining 16 treatment for a States described in this clause is a 17 program that— some lines snipped... 5 ‘‘(IV) is guided by a coalition of stake 6holders includes representatives from emergency 7 medical services, emergency department physi8 cians or nurses, state long-term care associa9 tion, state medical association, state surveyors, 10 agency responsible for senior services, state de11 partment of health, state hospital association, 12 home health association, state bar association, 13 and state hospice association. Sure sounds like a panel, doesn't it? -- John H All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking. i was a hospice volunteer for years. the level of instruction people get at the end of their lives is pathetic and only the right wing...which hates the human race...would oppose providing these people with support |
Americans working much harder ? for less pay
On Aug 13, 5:53*pm, JustWait wrote:
In article , says... On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:42:14 -0400, NotNow wrote: wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:28 am, JLH wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:22:21 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:13 am, JLH wrote: Well, I'm part owner of a couple, and I don't consider myself 'wealthy' (in the material sense, that is). -- yeah so am i. i own about 10 shares of goldman sachs in my 401k portfolio. big shwoop. Then quit ****ing and moaning about the owners being wealthy (in the material sense, of course). ROFLMAO!! why? do you think that having had the big boys raid my 401k to maintain their lifestyles makes me rich? you right wingers have quite an imagination. Oh, and quit calling names and hurling personal insults. They don't help your arguments. Krause has been doing it for years. Hasn't helped him at all. -- ?? now let's see...the right invents lies such as obama putting people in concentration camps, forming death panels, etc. THEN when they get called on it, they moan they're being treated unfairly... You are correct! The lies about the death panel crap that is coming from the right is dishonest, and they know it, that is IF they read that part. |
Americans working much harder ? for less pay
wf3h wrote:
On Aug 13, 5:53 pm, JustWait wrote: In article , says... On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:42:14 -0400, NotNow wrote: wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:28 am, JLH wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:22:21 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:13 am, JLH wrote: Well, I'm part owner of a couple, and I don't consider myself 'wealthy' (in the material sense, that is). -- yeah so am i. i own about 10 shares of goldman sachs in my 401k portfolio. big shwoop. Then quit ****ing and moaning about the owners being wealthy (in the material sense, of course). ROFLMAO!! why? do you think that having had the big boys raid my 401k to maintain their lifestyles makes me rich? you right wingers have quite an imagination. Oh, and quit calling names and hurling personal insults. They don't help your arguments. Krause has been doing it for years. Hasn't helped him at all. -- ?? now let's see...the right invents lies such as obama putting people in concentration camps, forming death panels, etc. THEN when they get called on it, they moan they're being treated unfairly... You are correct! The lies about the death panel crap that is coming from the right is dishonest, and they know it, that is IF they read that part. From page 429: ??(B) An advance care planning consultation with re2 spect to an individual may be conducted more frequently 3 than provided under paragraph (1) if there is a significant 4 change in the health condition of the individual, including 5 diagnosis of a chronic, progressive, life-limiting disease, a 6 life-threatening or terminal diagnosis or life-threatening 7 injury, or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a 8 long-term care facility (as defined by the Secretary), or 9 a hospice program. 10 ??(4) A consultation under this subsection may in11 clude the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining 12 treatment or a similar order. 13 ??(5)(A) For purposes of this section, the term ?order 14 regarding life sustaining treatment? means, with respect 15 to an individual, an actionable medical order relating to 16 the treatment of that individual that? Note line 10. Pretty scary, huh? Why is this here? ??(iii) A program for orders for life sustaining 16 treatment for a States described in this clause is a 17 program that? some lines snipped... 5 ??(IV) is guided by a coalition of stake 6holders includes representatives from emergency 7 medical services, emergency department physi8 cians or nurses, state long-term care associa9 tion, state medical association, state surveyors, 10 agency responsible for senior services, state de11 partment of health, state hospital association, 12 home health association, state bar association, 13 and state hospice association. Sure sounds like a panel, doesn't it? Yup... It is what it is. Hey, if they like the bill they should admit what it is and support it. Don't look at the word "black" on the paper and call it "white"... Either way, gotta' go do the pool... i laugh at the right wing. they've never had to care for the dying but they oppose any effort to do so. Except, of course, when they stuck their noses into the end of life decision-making for Terry Schiavo. |
Americans working much harder ? for less pay
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Americans working much harder ? for less pay
JustWait wrote:
What a ****ing idiot you are.. I am taking care of my dying father as we speak.. Have been guiding and supporting him for 5 years asshole and now he is in the hospital again, he needs a lot of care and I am/will be here to give it to him...... You are as bad as Harry... So tell us, numnutz...who is paying for the bulk of care your dad is receiving? I'll bet it is the taxpayers, right? You may visit him and provide familial support, but *we* are picking up the tab. |
Americans working much harder – for less pay
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:59:53 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote: On Aug 13, 5:13*pm, JLH wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:42:14 -0400, NotNow wrote: wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:28 am, JLH wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:22:21 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:13 am, JLH wrote: Well, I'm part owner of a couple, and I don't consider myself 'wealthy' (in the material sense, that is). -- yeah so am i. i own about 10 shares of goldman sachs in my 401k portfolio. big shwoop. Then quit ****ing and moaning about the owners being wealthy (in the material sense, of course). ROFLMAO!! why? do you think that having had the big boys raid my 401k to maintain their lifestyles makes me rich? you right wingers have quite an imagination. Oh, and quit calling names and hurling personal insults. They don't help your arguments. Krause has been doing it for years. Hasn't helped him at all. -- ?? now let's see...the right invents lies such as obama putting people in concentration camps, forming death panels, etc. THEN when they get called on it, they moan they're being treated unfairly... You are correct! The lies about the death panel crap that is coming from the right is dishonest, and they know it, that is IF they read that part. From page 429: ‘‘(B) An advance care planning consultation with re2 spect to an individual may be conducted more frequently 3 than provided under paragraph (1) if there is a significant 4 change in the health condition of the individual, including 5 diagnosis of a chronic, progressive, life-limiting disease, a 6 life-threatening or terminal diagnosis or life-threatening 7 injury, or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a 8 long-term care facility (as defined by the Secretary), or 9 a hospice program. 10 ‘‘(4) A consultation under this subsection may in11 clude the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining 12 treatment or a similar order. 13 ‘‘(5)(A) For purposes of this section, the term ‘order 14 regarding life sustaining treatment’ means, with respect 15 to an individual, an actionable medical order relating to 16 the treatment of that individual that— Note line 10. Pretty scary, huh? Why is this here? ‘‘(iii) A program for orders for life sustaining 16 treatment for a States described in this clause is a 17 program that— some lines snipped... 5 ‘‘(IV) is guided by a coalition of stake 6holders includes representatives from emergency 7 medical services, emergency department physi8 cians or nurses, state long-term care associa9 tion, state medical association, state surveyors, 10 agency responsible for senior services, state de11 partment of health, state hospital association, 12 home health association, state bar association, 13 and state hospice association. Sure sounds like a panel, doesn't it? -- John H All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking. i was a hospice volunteer for years. the level of instruction people get at the end of their lives is pathetic and only the right wing...which hates the human race...would oppose providing these people with support Not to be too obvious, but if you were the volunteer, what the hell kind of pathetic advice were you giving them? Besides, once an individual is in a hospice haven't the difficult decisions been already made? They were in my mother's case. -- John H All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking. |
Americans working much harder ? for less pay
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:01:05 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote: On Aug 13, 5:53*pm, JustWait wrote: In article , says... On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:42:14 -0400, NotNow wrote: wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:28 am, JLH wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:22:21 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:13 am, JLH wrote: Well, I'm part owner of a couple, and I don't consider myself 'wealthy' (in the material sense, that is). -- yeah so am i. i own about 10 shares of goldman sachs in my 401k portfolio. big shwoop. Then quit ****ing and moaning about the owners being wealthy (in the material sense, of course). ROFLMAO!! why? do you think that having had the big boys raid my 401k to maintain their lifestyles makes me rich? you right wingers have quite an imagination. Oh, and quit calling names and hurling personal insults. They don't help your arguments. Krause has been doing it for years. Hasn't helped him at all. -- ?? now let's see...the right invents lies such as obama putting people in concentration camps, forming death panels, etc. THEN when they get called on it, they moan they're being treated unfairly... You are correct! The lies about the death panel crap that is coming from the right is dishonest, and they know it, that is IF they read that part. From page 429: ??(B) An advance care planning consultation with re2 spect to an individual may be conducted more frequently 3 than provided under paragraph (1) if there is a significant 4 change in the health condition of the individual, including 5 diagnosis of a chronic, progressive, life-limiting disease, a 6 life-threatening or terminal diagnosis or life-threatening 7 injury, or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a 8 long-term care facility (as defined by the Secretary), or 9 a hospice program. 10 ??(4) A consultation under this subsection may in11 clude the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining 12 treatment or a similar order. 13 ??(5)(A) For purposes of this section, the term ?order 14 regarding life sustaining treatment? means, with respect 15 to an individual, an actionable medical order relating to 16 the treatment of that individual that? Note line 10. Pretty scary, huh? Why is this here? ??(iii) A program for orders for life sustaining 16 treatment for a States described in this clause is a 17 program that? some lines snipped... 5 ??(IV) is guided by a coalition of stake 6holders includes representatives from emergency 7 medical services, emergency department physi8 cians or nurses, state long-term care associa9 tion, state medical association, state surveyors, 10 agency responsible for senior services, state de11 partment of health, state hospital association, 12 home health association, state bar association, 13 and state hospice association. Sure sounds like a panel, doesn't it? Yup... It is what it is. Hey, if they like the bill they should admit what it is and support it. Don't look at the word "black" on the paper and call it "white"... * *Either way, gotta' go do the pool... i laugh at the right wing. they've never had to care for the dying but they oppose any effort to do so. Do you really believe that the friends and relatives of right wing folks don't die? Gosh, I could have sworn both my mother, father, and first wife had died, after several months or years of illness. I suppose I was wrong. You are sounding more like Harry by the day. That comment above sounds like something he'd say. Do you also equate killing babies with executing murderers? -- John H All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking. |
Americans working much harder – for less pay
NotNow wrote:
wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:28 am, JLH wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:22:21 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:13 am, JLH wrote: Well, I'm part owner of a couple, and I don't consider myself 'wealthy' (in the material sense, that is). -- yeah so am i. i own about 10 shares of goldman sachs in my 401k portfolio. big shwoop. Then quit ****ing and moaning about the owners being wealthy (in the material sense, of course). ROFLMAO!! why? do you think that having had the big boys raid my 401k to maintain their lifestyles makes me rich? you right wingers have quite an imagination. Oh, and quit calling names and hurling personal insults. They don't help your arguments. Krause has been doing it for years. Hasn't helped him at all. -- ?? now let's see...the right invents lies such as obama putting people in concentration camps, forming death panels, etc. THEN when they get called on it, they moan they're being treated unfairly... You are correct! The lies about the death panel crap that is coming from the right is dishonest, and they know it, that is IF they read that part. All is fair in love, war and politics. If you can't stomach the fight then go home. |
Americans working much harder – for lesspay
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:13:48 -0400, JLH wrote:
Sure sounds like a panel, doesn't it? http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/...ct-a-pro-life- republican-from-georgia.html |
Americans working much harder – for less pay
BAR wrote:
NotNow wrote: wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:28 am, JLH wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:22:21 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:13 am, JLH wrote: Well, I'm part owner of a couple, and I don't consider myself 'wealthy' (in the material sense, that is). -- yeah so am i. i own about 10 shares of goldman sachs in my 401k portfolio. big shwoop. Then quit ****ing and moaning about the owners being wealthy (in the material sense, of course). ROFLMAO!! why? do you think that having had the big boys raid my 401k to maintain their lifestyles makes me rich? you right wingers have quite an imagination. Oh, and quit calling names and hurling personal insults. They don't help your arguments. Krause has been doing it for years. Hasn't helped him at all. -- ?? now let's see...the right invents lies such as obama putting people in concentration camps, forming death panels, etc. THEN when they get called on it, they moan they're being treated unfairly... You are correct! The lies about the death panel crap that is coming from the right is dishonest, and they know it, that is IF they read that part. All is fair in love, war and politics. If you can't stomach the fight then go home. And there is the credo of the right...stupid, sickening, and intellectually dishonest. |
Americans working much harder - for less pay
Calif Bill wrote:
"NotNow" wrote in message ... D wrote: jps wrote: On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:03:52 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:10:59 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote: jps wrote: Feel like you're working a lot harder these days, putting in longer hours for the same pay - or even less? The latest round of government data on worker productivity indicates that you probably are. The Labor Department said Tuesday that the American work force produced, at an annual rate, 6.4 percent more of the goods they made and services they provided in the second quarter of this year compared to a year ago. At the same time, "unit labor costs" - the amount employers paid for all that extra work - fell by 5.8 percent. The jump in productivity was higher than expected; the cut in labor costs more than double expectations. That is, despite the deep job cuts of the past year, workers who remain on the payroll are filling in and making up the work that had been done by their departed colleagues. In some cases, that extra work came with a smaller paycheck. Full story here... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32374533...n_the_economy/ On todays production lines the volume can be increased without a corresponding increase in the effort of the individual. So a 6.4% increase in production does not mean that the employee is being overworked as implied. Don't know if you're heard, we don't have production lines here anymore. We're in the service business and military arms. The productivity gains come from less workers doing more, working longer hours for pay that doesn't keep up with the rising cost of living. No production, so we could not raise productivity. You kept all your deadwood. You don't have to produce on a line to be productive. We write software, it doesn't benefit from a faster production line. We are doing more with less people. When times are lean, that's the way it works. Did you ever work for an entreprenurial company or only behemoths? How well are those German screwdrivers helping you write software? That's what I was thinking, how do you write software with a screwdriver! He's lying like Harry of course, you'll see no evidence of his work. I will support jps here. I wrote software for embedded systems. Most for years was in PROM's. So you had to take the screw driver and open up the case to pop out the old PROM and install the new one. How many PROMS did you destroy before you honed your technique? The TI (ee)proms had the cheapest pins. |
Americans working much harder – for less pay
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 06:38:11 -0500, thunder
wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:13:48 -0400, JLH wrote: Sure sounds like a panel, doesn't it? http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/...ct-a-pro-life- republican-from-georgia.html Who did no writing in the bill. This is a cute trick, but it has no bearing on the discussion. -- John H All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking. |
Americans working much harder - for less pay
BAR wrote:
How many PROMS did you destroy before you honed your technique? For a minute I thought you were talking about Harry taking his skank to a dance. |
Americans working much harder ? for less pay
|
Americans working much harder ? for less pay
|
Americans working much harder - for less pay
Calif Bill wrote:
"NotNow" wrote in message ... Calif Bill wrote: "NotNow" wrote in message ... D wrote: jps wrote: On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:03:52 -0700, "CalifBill" wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:10:59 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote: jps wrote: Feel like you're working a lot harder these days, putting in longer hours for the same pay - or even less? The latest round of government data on worker productivity indicates that you probably are. The Labor Department said Tuesday that the American work force produced, at an annual rate, 6.4 percent more of the goods they made and services they provided in the second quarter of this year compared to a year ago. At the same time, "unit labor costs" - the amount employers paid for all that extra work - fell by 5.8 percent. The jump in productivity was higher than expected; the cut in labor costs more than double expectations. That is, despite the deep job cuts of the past year, workers who remain on the payroll are filling in and making up the work that had been done by their departed colleagues. In some cases, that extra work came with a smaller paycheck. Full story here... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32374533...n_the_economy/ On todays production lines the volume can be increased without a corresponding increase in the effort of the individual. So a 6.4% increase in production does not mean that the employee is being overworked as implied. Don't know if you're heard, we don't have production lines here anymore. We're in the service business and military arms. The productivity gains come from less workers doing more, working longer hours for pay that doesn't keep up with the rising cost of living. No production, so we could not raise productivity. You kept all your deadwood. You don't have to produce on a line to be productive. We write software, it doesn't benefit from a faster production line. We are doing more with less people. When times are lean, that's the way it works. Did you ever work for an entreprenurial company or only behemoths? How well are those German screwdrivers helping you write software? That's what I was thinking, how do you write software with a screwdriver! He's lying like Harry of course, you'll see no evidence of his work. I will support jps here. I wrote software for embedded systems. Most for years was in PROM's. So you had to take the screw driver and open up the case to pop out the old PROM and install the new one. And it'd take high dollar German made screwdrivers to pry open the case?! No, we used the pocket knife at times. Only real problem we had is the guy who originally designed the case had designed military tanks. So all screws were stainless. Case was sheet aluminum. Could never get the Engineering change board to sign off on changing the stainless to plated Keps. Then the assembly people could have used the magnetic power screwdrivers with even better production results. Production work sucks! I remember when my brother was still in school he got a job at an electronics facility soldering circuit boards! |
Americans working much harder – for less pay
JLH wrote:
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:42:14 -0400, NotNow wrote: wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:28 am, JLH wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:22:21 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:13 am, JLH wrote: Well, I'm part owner of a couple, and I don't consider myself 'wealthy' (in the material sense, that is). -- yeah so am i. i own about 10 shares of goldman sachs in my 401k portfolio. big shwoop. Then quit ****ing and moaning about the owners being wealthy (in the material sense, of course). ROFLMAO!! why? do you think that having had the big boys raid my 401k to maintain their lifestyles makes me rich? you right wingers have quite an imagination. Oh, and quit calling names and hurling personal insults. They don't help your arguments. Krause has been doing it for years. Hasn't helped him at all. -- ?? now let's see...the right invents lies such as obama putting people in concentration camps, forming death panels, etc. THEN when they get called on it, they moan they're being treated unfairly... You are correct! The lies about the death panel crap that is coming from the right is dishonest, and they know it, that is IF they read that part. From page 429: ‘‘(B) An advance care planning consultation with re2 spect to an individual may be conducted more frequently 3 than provided under paragraph (1) if there is a significant 4 change in the health condition of the individual, including 5 diagnosis of a chronic, progressive, life-limiting disease, a 6 life-threatening or terminal diagnosis or life-threatening 7 injury, or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a 8 long-term care facility (as defined by the Secretary), or 9 a hospice program. 10 ‘‘(4) A consultation under this subsection may in11 clude the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining 12 treatment or a similar order. 13 ‘‘(5)(A) For purposes of this section, the term ‘order 14 regarding life sustaining treatment’ means, with respect 15 to an individual, an actionable medical order relating to 16 the treatment of that individual that— Note line 10. Pretty scary, huh? Why is this here? ‘‘(iii) A program for orders for life sustaining 16 treatment for a States described in this clause is a 17 program that— some lines snipped... 5 ‘‘(IV) is guided by a coalition of stake 6holders includes representatives from emergency 7 medical services, emergency department physi8 cians or nurses, state long-term care associa9 tion, state medical association, state surveyors, 10 agency responsible for senior services, state de11 partment of health, state hospital association, 12 home health association, state bar association, 13 and state hospice association. Sure sounds like a panel, doesn't it? -- John H All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking. No. |
Americans working much harder =3F for less pay
|
Americans working much harder ? for less pay
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 08:32:47 -0400, JustWait
wrote: In article , says... On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:01:05 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 5:53*pm, JustWait wrote: In article , says... On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:42:14 -0400, NotNow wrote: wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:28 am, JLH wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:22:21 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:13 am, JLH wrote: Well, I'm part owner of a couple, and I don't consider myself 'wealthy' (in the material sense, that is). -- yeah so am i. i own about 10 shares of goldman sachs in my 401k portfolio. big shwoop. Then quit ****ing and moaning about the owners being wealthy (in the material sense, of course). ROFLMAO!! why? do you think that having had the big boys raid my 401k to maintain their lifestyles makes me rich? you right wingers have quite an imagination. Oh, and quit calling names and hurling personal insults. They don't help your arguments. Krause has been doing it for years. Hasn't helped him at all. -- ?? now let's see...the right invents lies such as obama putting people in concentration camps, forming death panels, etc. THEN when they get called on it, they moan they're being treated unfairly... You are correct! The lies about the death panel crap that is coming from the right is dishonest, and they know it, that is IF they read that part. From page 429: ??(B) An advance care planning consultation with re2 spect to an individual may be conducted more frequently 3 than provided under paragraph (1) if there is a significant 4 change in the health condition of the individual, including 5 diagnosis of a chronic, progressive, life-limiting disease, a 6 life-threatening or terminal diagnosis or life-threatening 7 injury, or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a 8 long-term care facility (as defined by the Secretary), or 9 a hospice program. 10 ??(4) A consultation under this subsection may in11 clude the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining 12 treatment or a similar order. 13 ??(5)(A) For purposes of this section, the term ?order 14 regarding life sustaining treatment? means, with respect 15 to an individual, an actionable medical order relating to 16 the treatment of that individual that? Note line 10. Pretty scary, huh? Why is this here? ??(iii) A program for orders for life sustaining 16 treatment for a States described in this clause is a 17 program that? some lines snipped... 5 ??(IV) is guided by a coalition of stake 6holders includes representatives from emergency 7 medical services, emergency department physi8 cians or nurses, state long-term care associa9 tion, state medical association, state surveyors, 10 agency responsible for senior services, state de11 partment of health, state hospital association, 12 home health association, state bar association, 13 and state hospice association. Sure sounds like a panel, doesn't it? Yup... It is what it is. Hey, if they like the bill they should admit what it is and support it. Don't look at the word "black" on the paper and call it "white"... * *Either way, gotta' go do the pool... i laugh at the right wing. they've never had to care for the dying but they oppose any effort to do so. Do you really believe that the friends and relatives of right wing folks don't die? Gosh, I could have sworn both my mother, father, and first wife had died, after several months or years of illness. I suppose I was wrong. You are sounding more like Harry by the day. That comment above sounds like something he'd say. Do you also equate killing babies with executing murderers? Just plonked the guy.. He is worse than harry, with the name calling and out of context bull****... Yeah but he gave us a quote worth repeating: "i laugh at the right wing. they've never had to care for the dying but they oppose any effort to do so. ' Right wingers' friends and relatives don't die, you know. This guy is giving Donnie a run for his money, and I don't think this guy is just pretending. -- John H All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking. |
Americans working much harder – for less pay
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:06:43 -0400, NotNow wrote:
JLH LXV wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:59:53 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 5:13 pm, JLH wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:42:14 -0400, NotNow wrote: wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:28 am, JLH wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:22:21 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:13 am, JLH wrote: Well, I'm part owner of a couple, and I don't consider myself 'wealthy' (in the material sense, that is). -- yeah so am i. i own about 10 shares of goldman sachs in my 401k portfolio. big shwoop. Then quit ****ing and moaning about the owners being wealthy (in the material sense, of course). ROFLMAO!! why? do you think that having had the big boys raid my 401k to maintain their lifestyles makes me rich? you right wingers have quite an imagination. Oh, and quit calling names and hurling personal insults. They don't help your arguments. Krause has been doing it for years. Hasn't helped him at all. -- ?? now let's see...the right invents lies such as obama putting people in concentration camps, forming death panels, etc. THEN when they get called on it, they moan they're being treated unfairly... You are correct! The lies about the death panel crap that is coming from the right is dishonest, and they know it, that is IF they read that part. From page 429: ‘‘(B) An advance care planning consultation with re2 spect to an individual may be conducted more frequently 3 than provided under paragraph (1) if there is a significant 4 change in the health condition of the individual, including 5 diagnosis of a chronic, progressive, life-limiting disease, a 6 life-threatening or terminal diagnosis or life-threatening 7 injury, or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a 8 long-term care facility (as defined by the Secretary), or 9 a hospice program. 10 ‘‘(4) A consultation under this subsection may in11 clude the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining 12 treatment or a similar order. 13 ‘‘(5)(A) For purposes of this section, the term ‘order 14 regarding life sustaining treatment’ means, with respect 15 to an individual, an actionable medical order relating to 16 the treatment of that individual that— Note line 10. Pretty scary, huh? Why is this here? ‘‘(iii) A program for orders for life sustaining 16 treatment for a States described in this clause is a 17 program that— some lines snipped... 5 ‘‘(IV) is guided by a coalition of stake 6holders includes representatives from emergency 7 medical services, emergency department physi8 cians or nurses, state long-term care associa9 tion, state medical association, state surveyors, 10 agency responsible for senior services, state de11 partment of health, state hospital association, 12 home health association, state bar association, 13 and state hospice association. Sure sounds like a panel, doesn't it? -- John H All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking. i was a hospice volunteer for years. the level of instruction people get at the end of their lives is pathetic and only the right wing...which hates the human race...would oppose providing these people with support Not to be too obvious, but if you were the volunteer, what the hell kind of pathetic advice were you giving them? Besides, once an individual is in a hospice haven't the difficult decisions been already made? They were in my mother's case. -- John H All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking. And the insults start.... What insult? -- John H All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking. |
Americans working much harder =3F for less pay
JustWait wrote:
In article , says... JustWait wrote: In article , says... JLH wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:42:14 -0400, NotNow wrote: wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:28 am, JLH wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:22:21 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:13 am, JLH wrote: Well, I'm part owner of a couple, and I don't consider myself 'wealthy' (in the material sense, that is). -- yeah so am i. i own about 10 shares of goldman sachs in my 401k portfolio. big shwoop. Then quit ****ing and moaning about the owners being wealthy (in the material sense, of course). ROFLMAO!! why? do you think that having had the big boys raid my 401k to maintain their lifestyles makes me rich? you right wingers have quite an imagination. Oh, and quit calling names and hurling personal insults. They don't help your arguments. Krause has been doing it for years. Hasn't helped him at all. -- ?? now let's see...the right invents lies such as obama putting people in concentration camps, forming death panels, etc. THEN when they get called on it, they moan they're being treated unfairly... You are correct! The lies about the death panel crap that is coming from the right is dishonest, and they know it, that is IF they read that part. From page 429: ??(B) An advance care planning consultation with re2 spect to an individual may be conducted more frequently 3 than provided under paragraph (1) if there is a significant 4 change in the health condition of the individual, including 5 diagnosis of a chronic, progressive, life-limiting disease, a 6 life-threatening or terminal diagnosis or life-threatening 7 injury, or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a 8 long-term care facility (as defined by the Secretary), or 9 a hospice program. 10 ??(4) A consultation under this subsection may in11 clude the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining 12 treatment or a similar order. 13 ??(5)(A) For purposes of this section, the term ?order 14 regarding life sustaining treatment? means, with respect 15 to an individual, an actionable medical order relating to 16 the treatment of that individual that? Note line 10. Pretty scary, huh? Why is this here? ??(iii) A program for orders for life sustaining 16 treatment for a States described in this clause is a 17 program that? some lines snipped... 5 ??(IV) is guided by a coalition of stake 6holders includes representatives from emergency 7 medical services, emergency department physi8 cians or nurses, state long-term care associa9 tion, state medical association, state surveyors, 10 agency responsible for senior services, state de11 partment of health, state hospital association, 12 home health association, state bar association, 13 and state hospice association. Sure sounds like a panel, doesn't it? -- John H All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking. No. What do you mean, what is this group of people if not a "panel"? Read this again... (IV) is guided by a "coalition of stake holders" (panel) includes representatives from emergency medical services" (panel), "emergency department physicians or nurses" (panel), state long-term care association, state medical association, "state surveyors" (STATE SURVEYERS??? Yikes! sounds like a "panel" of folks who are not interested in you), agency responsible for senior services, state department of health, state hospital association, home health association, state bar association, and state hospice association. (Panel, panel, panel. And most of 'em have never even met you before!!!) Read the words, it is a panel...Period, end of story.. It DAMNED sure isn't a "death panel". If you look above about 20 or so lines you will see I never said "Death" panel. I asked if it was a "panel" you said "no"... It is a panel of strangers who should not be involved in your personal decisions... PANEL.. That's what I said.... never said death... mutter... But what everyone is losing track of, because of the lies perpetuated, is that the end of life counseling is completely 100% voluntary. |
Americans working much harder =3F for less pay
JustWait wrote:
In article , says... JustWait wrote: In article , says... BAR wrote: NotNow wrote: wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:28 am, JLH wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:22:21 -0700 (PDT), wf3h wrote: On Aug 13, 7:13 am, JLH wrote: Well, I'm part owner of a couple, and I don't consider myself 'wealthy' (in the material sense, that is). -- yeah so am i. i own about 10 shares of goldman sachs in my 401k portfolio. big shwoop. Then quit ****ing and moaning about the owners being wealthy (in the material sense, of course). ROFLMAO!! why? do you think that having had the big boys raid my 401k to maintain their lifestyles makes me rich? you right wingers have quite an imagination. Oh, and quit calling names and hurling personal insults. They don't help your arguments. Krause has been doing it for years. Hasn't helped him at all. -- ?? now let's see...the right invents lies such as obama putting people in concentration camps, forming death panels, etc. THEN when they get called on it, they moan they're being treated unfairly... You are correct! The lies about the death panel crap that is coming from the right is dishonest, and they know it, that is IF they read that part. All is fair in love, war and politics. If you can't stomach the fight then go home. Oh, so you condone your party's lies? More and more Republicans are coming out saying they want their party to stop that nonsense. It makes them look stupid for one thing. And the people who believe those lies then have to save face somehow. You mean like saying you landed in a hot zone and ran for cover, or saying the CIA lied, or saying the old folks fighting against health care reform were carrying swasticka's? Oh wait... forget it... Yes, a lie is a lie. BUT, you didn't answer the question! Ok, I will guess the question is about death panels.. The panels of uninvolved strangers from the government shouldn't be refered to as "Death Panels"... They should be called "Politically correct timely demise panels"... ;) Panels are panels. Call them what you will. A name simply identifies something, you call it a planning panel, I call it a Politically correct timely demise panel.. Tomato, Tomato. It is still a panel of uninvolved strangers who will be looking at paperwork and providing suggestions based on Government "Guidelines" as they will be folks who answer to the Government, not a doctor, financial advisor, family, guardian, durable power of atty, or lawyer that knows you and should the ones helping you make those decisions... BULL****! They aren't providing ANY "suggestions" based on anything. And it IS done by the doctor's liasons. ALL it does is require Medicare to OFFER counseling. The planning is nothing more, nothing less than thinking ahead about the treatment you'd like to receive at the end of your life. He http://www.factcheck.org/2009/07/fal...anasia-claims/ You need to read for yourself, NOT rely on the lies being told by the right. |
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