On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:00:21 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:49:10 -0400, Another John wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 06:45:47 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:42:38 -0400, Little John wrote:


The town hall meetings are being disrupted by those against the
current batch of bull****, unread policies. Those folks are both
Republicans *and* Democrats.

Funny, I heard Rush say the very same thing.

Good. Now expand a little more and you'll get a feel for what's
happening.

Thunder, do you think it's a *good* thing for unread bills to be passed?

Another Rip Van Winkle. Do you think Congressmen just now stopped
reading bills? Just because Obama's President?

Let me ask you a question.

Have you read it? It will affect you you know.

I'm up to page 783 and I have almost one legal pad full of notes and
comments on various sections and I'll probably have to start a second.
I also had to call our family attorney to have him explain various
legalese to me because there's some language in it that is absolutely
baffling.

How many Congress Critters can say that? I know our Representative
hasn't read it - he said so. And he's a lawyer.

I'll also mention that those who have actually taken the time to read
it are scared ****less about it - even Democrats are taking a WTF?
attitude to it.

I'm off to a discussion group at the moment - curiously enough, it's
about this very issue. Should be very interesting - lots of really
smart people on both sides of the aisle who respect each other's
opinions and can discuss and debate rationally.

"Wizard of Woodstock" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:00:21 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:49:10 -0400, Another John wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 06:45:47 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:42:38 -0400, Little John wrote:


The town hall meetings are being disrupted by those against the
current batch of bull****, unread policies. Those folks are both
Republicans *and* Democrats.

Funny, I heard Rush say the very same thing.

Good. Now expand a little more and you'll get a feel for what's
happening.

Thunder, do you think it's a *good* thing for unread bills to be passed?

Another Rip Van Winkle. Do you think Congressmen just now stopped
reading bills? Just because Obama's President?

Let me ask you a question.

Have you read it? It will affect you you know.

I'm up to page 783 and I have almost one legal pad full of notes and
comments on various sections and I'll probably have to start a second.
I also had to call our family attorney to have him explain various
legalese to me because there's some language in it that is absolutely
baffling.

How many Congress Critters can say that? I know our Representative
hasn't read it - he said so. And he's a lawyer.

I'll also mention that those who have actually taken the time to read
it are scared ****less about it - even Democrats are taking a WTF?
attitude to it.

I'm off to a discussion group at the moment - curiously enough, it's
about this very issue. Should be very interesting - lots of really
smart people on both sides of the aisle who respect each other's
opinions and can discuss and debate rationally.

I'm simple-minded enough to believe that our legislators should read and
understand legislation, especially those bills that have such momentous
impact. To say that staff does the grunt work is misleading when 1,000 page
bills are introduced and voted on in the same week. When did staff have time
to digest the material?

Perhaps if we required understanding by the legislators we would have far
less onerous laws.

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:21:59 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock wrote:



Let me ask you a question.

The Health Care Bill, H.R.3200? I have read a few parts of it, mainly to
get context for some quotes. But, frankly, I do not plan on reading the
full text.


Have you read it? It will affect you you know.

I'm up to page 783 and I have almost one legal pad full of notes and
comments on various sections and I'll probably have to start a second. I
also had to call our family attorney to have him explain various
legalese to me because there's some language in it that is absolutely
baffling.

Isn't all legalese baffling? I thought that was the reason it was
invented. ;-)


How many Congress Critters can say that? I know our Representative
hasn't read it - he said so. And he's a lawyer.

I'll also mention that those who have actually taken the time to read it
are scared ****less about it - even Democrats are taking a WTF? attitude
to it.

I'm off to a discussion group at the moment - curiously enough, it's
about this very issue. Should be very interesting - lots of really
smart people on both sides of the aisle who respect each other's
opinions and can discuss and debate rationally.

Perhaps, you can give us a synopsis of the discussion.

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:32:34 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:21:59 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock wrote:



Let me ask you a question.

The Health Care Bill, H.R.3200? I have read a few parts of it, mainly to
get context for some quotes. But, frankly, I do not plan on reading the
full text.


Have you read it? It will affect you you know.

I'm up to page 783 and I have almost one legal pad full of notes and
comments on various sections and I'll probably have to start a second. I
also had to call our family attorney to have him explain various
legalese to me because there's some language in it that is absolutely
baffling.

Isn't all legalese baffling? I thought that was the reason it was
invented. ;-)


How many Congress Critters can say that? I know our Representative
hasn't read it - he said so. And he's a lawyer.

I'll also mention that those who have actually taken the time to read it
are scared ****less about it - even Democrats are taking a WTF? attitude
to it.

I'm off to a discussion group at the moment - curiously enough, it's
about this very issue. Should be very interesting - lots of really
smart people on both sides of the aisle who respect each other's
opinions and can discuss and debate rationally.

Perhaps, you can give us a synopsis of the discussion.

I suppose you've got unflagging trust in the 'synopses' you've heard
from Pelosi, Reid, and Obama?
--
John H

All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking.

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:43:13 -0400, Another John wrote:


I suppose you've got unflagging trust in the 'synopses' you've heard
from Pelosi, Reid, and Obama?

Who? I only listen to Rush.

thunder wrote:
On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:43:13 -0400, Another John wrote:


I suppose you've got unflagging trust in the 'synopses' you've heard
from Pelosi, Reid, and Obama?

Who? I only listen to Rush.

You should add Glenn Beck and Lou Dobbs. My guess is that if you are a
rightie and want to be a broadcaster, you have to bring a note from your
last psych exam that you are indeed insane.

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:32:34 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:21:59 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock wrote:
I'm off to a discussion group at the moment - curiously enough, it's
about this very issue. Should be very interesting - lots of really
smart people on both sides of the aisle who respect each other's
opinions and can discuss and debate rationally.

Perhaps, you can give us a synopsis of the discussion.

It was interesting to say the least.

What I found most interesting is that nobody, other than myself and
two otehr people there - one a tax accountant, the other a local
doctor, had actually attempted to read the bill.

I left after the congressional staffer for my rep, the AARP
representative and two other people (I don't remember who they worked
for - Dodd or Lieberman) said that they couldn't answer specific
questions about the bill itself - they could only discuss "policy
issues" related to the health care bill.

I did manage to get a question in, but the answer was as stated above
- they would not and could not answer specific line item questions
about the bill - only about the genral over view of the bill and how
it would affect Americans.

And we found out that our Rep is not going to be addressing health
care in individual forums but will be conducting an "open" town hall
conference call. WTF?

~~ sigh ~~

It was interesting as I was chatting with some of my former
counterparts in town government that, in general, this is not being
very well received even among Democrats.

Should be an interesting August.

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 22:38:53 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote:

It was interesting as I was chatting with some of my former
counterparts in town government that, in general, this is not being
very well received even among Democrats.

Everyone who is getting decent health care now has nothing to gain and
everything to lose. I think people are beginning to understand that.

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 22:51:03 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:


Everyone who is getting decent health care now has nothing to gain and
everything to lose. I think people are beginning to understand that.

I don't know your particular situation, but quite a few people *think*
they have excellent coverage, until they actually try to use it. It's a
fact that health care costs are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the
U.S., even when people have health care insurance.

Remember, most people's insurance is tied to their jobs. Get a long term
illness, you lose your job and your insurance, then go bankrupt.

thunder wrote:
On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 22:51:03 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:


Everyone who is getting decent health care now has nothing to gain and
everything to lose. I think people are beginning to understand that.

I don't know your particular situation, but quite a few people *think*
they have excellent coverage, until they actually try to use it. It's a
fact that health care costs are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the
U.S., even when people have health care insurance.

Remember, most people's insurance is tied to their jobs. Get a long term
illness, you lose your job and your insurance, then go bankrupt.


Most of those in this newsgroup who are opposed to health care insurance
reform are retired Republicans with substantial assets and health care
insurance or retired military with federal health care. It's part of the
Republican "I've got mine, so **** you" syndrome. They do not care about
Americans who unfortunately fall into the "Get a long term
illness, you lose your job and your insurance, then go bankrupt." scenario.