Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 00:42:13 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote:

Seriously, I have to wonder if it's something about the boats that
causes the problem rather than the generator itself. The 2000i is
rated at rougly 50dB which is normal conversation "noise" level. As
far as I'm concerned, it's quieter than that.

More likely being on water, with nothing to absorb the sound.
Many isolate the generator from the boat with padding.
Then there's the "perception" problem.
When I mow my lawn, the mower is singing a song.
But my neighbor's is making a highly irritating sound.
There are plenty of complaints about the Honda's.
Wayne would like to outlaw them at anchorages.
Some campgrounds *have* outlawed them, or restricted
the hours of operation, according to what I've read.
Never experienced it myself, though I've had my issues
with folks blasting their music at me.
Wayne and other cruisers know more about it.

--Vic

I have one of those Hondas. It makes less noise than W'hine whining
about them. Some anchorages are very quiet at night, and others are
plagued with the sounds of loud and usually bad music, drunks, and
shrounds banging against masts. The latter is the sound I find most
annoying at night in a marina or anchorage.

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:49:41 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:


Questions:

1: Is the noise of the honda due to its exhausting into air?

Just part of it. There other mechanical noises, some no doubt due to
the high revs needed - not much low-end torque in these things.
There are harmonics elements thrown in too.
Biggest problem I see is that they are air-cooled. That also limits
sound-deadening cowling.

2: Dont people who use these already have a diesel engine that should
power their alternator (seems not to be the case).

Some with inboard diesels do heavier duty alt setups, but usually
space available and the amount of work involved in a hot hole prevents
it, so they end up with the Honda gensets as a path of least
resistance.

3: Is it outboard powered sailboats that have these problematic
generators?

Not exclusively, but most OB powered sailboats are hampered by weak OB
alts. 6-10 amps max for the 10 hp range, and that's probably reved up
a bit. Solar and wind can fill some gaps, but there are many of those
Honda gensets on boats.
Just seems that water-cooled powerhead on the OB can be put
to more use.

4: Would the problem be alleviated by exhausting into the water via a
water lift exhaust as most inboard diesels do?

Don't think it's practical due to the usual distance the genset is
from the water and back pressure issues. Besides, that's only part of
the problem.

The most common sailboat outboard these days is the longshaft 9.9
Yamaha, a great motor. Seems like the best option might be a
switchable alternator, high output for charging only and low output
for charging and powering the prop.
Could this be done by only changing the voltage regulator? This
option might be a LOT cheaper than buying the Honda Gen.
Vic, this might be a good thing for you to pursue. I am not too
familiar with modern voltage regulators or modern alternators but they
cannot be that complicated. You might have a winner here. However,
wouldnt you have to run the OB at slightly higher RPM than idle for
real charging?

No doubt, but it would still be considerably more quiet and capable of
producing amps than the Honda gensets.
I don't want to pursue this - don't know anything about electricity,
or the mechanical engineering stuff.
Just tossing it out because when I get a boat this would be an
attractive auxiliary, seeing as I might want to occasionally run A/C
in Florida or other hell hot places.

UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly
came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd
that come from). I knew for awhile it might be possible but never
looked into it enough. Now, I find there are roughly 10,000
mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000.
If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well,
$20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get
venture capital types interested. Kinda looks as if my idle time will
be soon filled.
I vowed not to support Obamanomics but something like this is bigger
than politics if it gives far better contrast and much lower radiation
dose for mammographies.

Cool. Good luck with that. Good to hear you got inspired by altruism
instead of money. Money usually follows anyway. Entrepreneurship
comes in all shapes.

So, I highly reccomend YOU pursue this idea of the alternator. Do NOT
furhter mention it here because you might be giving up patent rights.
If you need encouragement, e-mail me at ohara5.0#mindspring.com
(replace the # with @).

Thanks, but I'm too lazy to fool around with it.
And like I said, it's surely been thought of before.
I'll keep my good ideas secret - when I get one.

--Vic

On Jul 13, 11:33*pm, Vic Smith
wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:49:41 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch

wrote:
Questions:

1: *Is the noise of the honda due to its exhausting into air?

Just part of it. *There other mechanical noises, some no doubt due to
the high revs needed - not much low-end torque in these things.
There are harmonics elements thrown in too.
Biggest problem I see is that they are air-cooled. *That also limits
sound-deadening cowling.

2: *Dont people who use these already have a diesel engine that should
power their alternator (seems not to be the case).

Some with inboard diesels do heavier duty alt setups, but usually
space available and the amount of work involved in a hot hole prevents
it, so they end up with the Honda gensets as a path of least
resistance.

3: *Is it outboard powered sailboats that have these problematic
generators?

Not exclusively, but most OB powered sailboats are hampered by weak OB
alts. *6-10 amps max for the 10 hp range, and that's probably reved up
a bit. *Solar and wind can fill some gaps, but there are many of those
Honda gensets on boats.
Just seems that water-cooled powerhead on the OB can be put
to more use. *

4: *Would the problem be alleviated by exhausting into the water via a
water lift exhaust as most inboard diesels do?

Don't think it's practical due to the usual distance the genset is
from the water and back pressure issues. *Besides, that's only part of
the problem.

The most common sailboat outboard these days is the longshaft 9.9
Yamaha, a great motor. *Seems like the best option might be a
switchable alternator, high output for charging only and low output
for charging and powering the prop.
Could this be done by only changing the voltage regulator? *This
option might be a LOT cheaper than buying the Honda Gen.
Vic, this might be a good thing for you to pursue. *I am not too
familiar with modern voltage regulators or modern alternators but they
cannot be that complicated. *You might have a winner here. *However,
wouldnt you have to run the OB at slightly higher RPM than idle for
real charging?

No doubt, but it would still be considerably more quiet and capable of
producing amps than the Honda gensets.
I don't want to pursue this - don't know anything about electricity,
or the mechanical engineering stuff.
Just tossing it out because when I get a boat this would be an
attractive auxiliary, seeing as I might want to occasionally run A/C
in Florida or other hell hot places.

UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly
came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd
that come from). *I knew for awhile it might be possible but never
looked into it enough. *Now, I find there are roughly 10,000
mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000.
If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well,
$20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get
venture capital types interested. *Kinda looks as if my idle time will
be soon filled.
I vowed not to support Obamanomics but something like this is bigger
than politics if it gives far better contrast and much lower radiation
dose for mammographies.

Cool. *Good luck with that. *Good to hear you got inspired by altruism
instead of money. *Money usually follows anyway. *Entrepreneurship
comes in all shapes.

So, I highly reccomend YOU pursue this idea of the alternator. *Do NOT
furhter mention it here because you might be giving up patent rights.
If you need encouragement, e-mail me at ohara5.0#mindspring.com
(replace the # with @).

Thanks, but I'm too lazy to fool around with it.
And like I said, it's surely been thought of before.
I'll keep my good ideas secret - when I get one.

--Vic

Altruism? Whats that?

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:39:09 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:



Altruism? Whats that?

What you'll tell your wife.

--Vic

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:49:41 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

Biggest problem with the Honda EU1000-2000's is they are air-cooled
noisy and relatively low hp, maybe 5 hp or so.

Um...huh?

I just bought a 2000i for my son's pontoon boat and I've tested it -
it's pretty damn quiet - about the level of an window mounted air
conditioner on high - less actually. And the "noise" is more like
white noise than generator noise.

We had to shut down the kitchen electrical power during the remodel
last week and I ran the 2000i on the deck to run the TV - I was
sitting within 8 feet of it and I could hear the kids next door, the
local dogs, cars going by on the street while I was reading some
technical material - didn't bother me any.

And what smell?

Wizard of Woodstock wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:49:41 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

Biggest problem with the Honda EU1000-2000's is they are air-cooled
noisy and relatively low hp, maybe 5 hp or so.

Um...huh?

I just bought a 2000i for my son's pontoon boat and I've tested it -
it's pretty damn quiet - about the level of an window mounted air
conditioner on high - less actually. And the "noise" is more like
white noise than generator noise.

We had to shut down the kitchen electrical power during the remodel
last week and I ran the 2000i on the deck to run the TV - I was
sitting within 8 feet of it and I could hear the kids next door, the
local dogs, cars going by on the street while I was reading some
technical material - didn't bother me any.

And what smell?

So...you didn't buy the eTec model, eh?

Vic Smith wrote:
For O/B sailboats.
A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB.

Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor.
Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats,
especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't
make much outside noise. Some of those owners think the Honda's
should be outlawed at anchorages.

What's with Honda's being the bad guy? Why mention Honda? These
generators are made by a variety of manufacturers.

I would say Honda generators aren't the problem, it's the construction
site type generators that are the problem. You know the ones.

I use an inverter, four golf cart batteries for the house bank, and have
a large alternator on the main engine. I'm good for 4 days on the hook,
no charging, and the ice cream is hard enough to bend a spoon. I use
electricity exactly the same at anchor that I use it at the dock.

Occasionally, with an hour or two of charging, I have a full tank of hot
water for showers, and topped off batteries.

A separate generator is not necessary as far as I can see. Not even
desirable.

Big, water cooled internal generators that run all day and night are
very annoying to me. Shut the damn thing off and shut off some lights.

Everyone who thinks they have to run their generator to make coffee is
the problem.

Jim wrote:
Vic Smith wrote:
For O/B sailboats.
A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB.

Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor.
Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats,
especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't
make much outside noise. Some of those owners think the Honda's
should be outlawed at anchorages.

What's with Honda's being the bad guy? Why mention Honda? These
generators are made by a variety of manufacturers.

I would say Honda generators aren't the problem, it's the construction
site type generators that are the problem. You know the ones.

I use an inverter, four golf cart batteries for the house bank, and have
a large alternator on the main engine. I'm good for 4 days on the hook,
no charging, and the ice cream is hard enough to bend a spoon. I use
electricity exactly the same at anchor that I use it at the dock.

Occasionally, with an hour or two of charging, I have a full tank of hot
water for showers, and topped off batteries.

A separate generator is not necessary as far as I can see. Not even
desirable.

Big, water cooled internal generators that run all day and night are
very annoying to me. Shut the damn thing off and shut off some lights.

Everyone who thinks they have to run their generator to make coffee is
the problem.

What do you do when it's 105 degrees at midnight?

On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:25:42 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:


What do you do when it's 105 degrees at midnight?

I was thinking about you being down there in Texas and wonder how you
handle exactly that.

--Vic

"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
Jim wrote:
Vic Smith wrote:
For O/B sailboats.
A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB.

Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor.
Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats,
especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't
make much outside noise. Some of those owners think the Honda's
should be outlawed at anchorages.

What's with Honda's being the bad guy? Why mention Honda? These
generators are made by a variety of manufacturers.

I would say Honda generators aren't the problem, it's the construction
site type generators that are the problem. You know the ones.

I use an inverter, four golf cart batteries for the house bank, and have
a large alternator on the main engine. I'm good for 4 days on the hook,
no charging, and the ice cream is hard enough to bend a spoon. I use
electricity exactly the same at anchor that I use it at the dock.

Occasionally, with an hour or two of charging, I have a full tank of hot
water for showers, and topped off batteries.

A separate generator is not necessary as far as I can see. Not even
desirable.

Big, water cooled internal generators that run all day and night are very
annoying to me. Shut the damn thing off and shut off some lights.

Everyone who thinks they have to run their generator to make coffee is
the problem.

What do you do when it's 105 degrees at midnight?


Sweat.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com