"HK" wrote in message
m...
Eisboch wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Jul 4, 4:25 pm, thunder wrote:

I heard something interesting, perhaps on NPR, the Chinese prefer
foreign
brands because the perceived quality. Seemed a little odd to me, as most
of those "foreign" brands are manufactured in China.



In the past few years. American-made Snap-on tools have found a good
and profitable market in China as well as the rest of Asia.

------------------------------

That's fine as long as they don't decide to make them there and market
'em back here.

Eisboch

I'm sure the Chinese already are manufacturing knock-offs. Counterfeiting
is one of their best accomplishments. From women's clothing to cosmetics
to callaway golf clubs, the chinese are adept at fake goods.

They had good teachers, American companies go there and teach them.

Even Cisco has problems with knock offs.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Jul 4, 4:25 pm, thunder wrote:


I heard something interesting, perhaps on NPR, the Chinese prefer foreign
brands because the perceived quality. Seemed a little odd to me, as most
of those "foreign" brands are manufactured in China.



In the past few years. American-made Snap-on tools have found a good
and profitable market in China as well as the rest of Asia.

------------------------------

That's fine as long as they don't decide to make them there and market 'em
back here.

Eisboch

Already happening. Quite a bit of their inventory is made in China and
elsewhere. Sometimes they slap a "Product of USA" on packaged sets but the
tools came from China. Deceptive, but has been known to occur. Oh, the
case it'self was mould-inejected in the US with imported plastics so it is
technically true for the case.

Same thing goes on with GM, Ford and Chrysler. Engine from Europe,
transmission from Korea, bearings from Japan, steel from China, electronics
from Tiawan but assembled in USA. I doubt there is a 100% NA made vehicle
out there.

Snap-on is no angel here. Foreign made and imported. Just milking the
brand.

"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Jul 4, 4:25 pm, thunder wrote:

I heard something interesting, perhaps on NPR, the Chinese prefer foreign
brands because the perceived quality. Seemed a little odd to me, as most
of those "foreign" brands are manufactured in China.

In the past few years. American-made Snap-on tools have found a good
and profitable market in China as well as the rest of Asia.

Yep, and as of last year you can get the knock offs pretty inexpensively.
Just minus the logo.

As for the profits, while they are making some, the market is quite
competative and margins much thinner than Snap-on is used to. And as the
Chinese manufacturer for Snap-on, they gain the expertise to undercut
Snap-on. Good for short term numbers but lets take a look at Snap-on say 3,
8, 15 years out. My guess is the profits will be squeezed and pricing
elasticity is shot to hell.

With credit the way it is, the dealer part of the business is under the
squeeze in both costs and credit. Industrial is under pressure.
Government? Not sure but not big enough to mater that much.

The real problem with companies like SNA on a long term view is the new
management style. Hacksaw Jack of HNI fame started it and no doubt some was
needed. But new managment knows nothing else but ruthless and often
mindless slash and burn mentality, geared only towards short term profit and
management bonuses. Good short term view, but not maintainable in the long
term. From what I hear, they are not repairing the social damages done to
morale either. A ticking time bomb and VP/executive top heavy.

Review the history of another mid-west company, Master Lock. No longer
manufacturers much at all and ever bit outsourced. A shadow of it's former
self, went to China too. Snap-on in right on this track.

It isn't to say I would buy SNA stock, I might. If it dipped to $20 I might
make a short term play for $35 but it has no place in my long term portfolio
as a buy/hold. Sold my last lot at $59.90 just over a year ago. It will
not see $60/share until inflation drives it or a reverse split.

Eisboch wrote:

Went to Lowes and bought an 8' track lighting system to mount over my
"high end" guitar wall.

Installed the track, wired it up and put the first of four fixtures in
it. Worked fine.
Installed the second fixture. Worked fine.

Installed the third. Didn't work. Changed the bulb. Still didn't work.
Fiddled with it for a while then decided it is probably bad and put it
aside.

Installed the forth fixture. Didn't work. Changed the bulb, still
didn't work.
Fiddled around, still didn't work.

Finally took it apart to figure out why.

It could never have worked. It was put together wrong and if I had
happened to get the contacts to connect, it would have shorted out the
supply voltage.

I took the other one that didn't work apart. Same thing.

Looked at the boxes they came in. Sure enough. Brand name is
"Portfolio" but "Made in China" is printed in small print on the box.

Moral: Don't buy any electrical appliances or potentially
dangerous/fire producing items that are made in China. I am not
kidding. This is not the first time I've run into this. Some of the
products being made in China are dangerous. There is obviously no
production or quality control in some of their manufacturing facilities.

They should stick to noodles.

Eisboch


The problem is finding a product like that made in the US. Chinese
imports have taken over many categories entirely.

Was there a UL label on the box? There probably was and you really have
to wonder how they pulled that off. My only guess if that the sample
reviewed by the UL was made perfectly and after that...anything goes.

"D K" wrote in message
...

Was there a UL label on the box? There probably was and you really have
to wonder how they pulled that off. My only guess if that the sample
reviewed by the UL was made perfectly and after that...anything goes.

Yup, there is a UL label. Doesn't mean a thing because quality control is a
statistical thing.
It means the design is UL labeled, but doesn't mean the
manufacturing/assembly process meets the requirements.

Eisboch

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"D K" wrote in message
...

Was there a UL label on the box? There probably was and you really have
to wonder how they pulled that off. My only guess if that the sample
reviewed by the UL was made perfectly and after that...anything goes.

Yup, there is a UL label. Doesn't mean a thing because quality control is
a statistical thing.
It means the design is UL labeled, but doesn't mean the
manufacturing/assembly process meets the requirements.

Eisboch


UL does recurring factory checkups, both the processes and product.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"D K" wrote in message
...

Was there a UL label on the box? There probably was and you really have
to wonder how they pulled that off. My only guess if that the sample
reviewed by the UL was made perfectly and after that...anything goes.

Yup, there is a UL label. Doesn't mean a thing because quality control is
a statistical thing.
It means the design is UL labeled, but doesn't mean the
manufacturing/assembly process meets the requirements.

Eisboch

UL is about give me money and you can stamp it UL.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

Went to Lowes and bought an 8' track lighting system to mount over my
"high end" guitar wall.

Installed the track, wired it up and put the first of four fixtures in it.
Worked fine.
Installed the second fixture. Worked fine.

Installed the third. Didn't work. Changed the bulb. Still didn't work.
Fiddled with it for a while then decided it is probably bad and put it
aside.

Installed the forth fixture. Didn't work. Changed the bulb, still didn't
work.
Fiddled around, still didn't work.

Finally took it apart to figure out why.

It could never have worked. It was put together wrong and if I had
happened to get the contacts to connect, it would have shorted out the
supply voltage.

I took the other one that didn't work apart. Same thing.

Looked at the boxes they came in. Sure enough. Brand name is
"Portfolio" but "Made in China" is printed in small print on the box.

Moral: Don't buy any electrical appliances or potentially dangerous/fire
producing items that are made in China. I am not kidding. This is not
the first time I've run into this. Some of the products being made in
China are dangerous. There is obviously no production or quality control
in some of their manufacturing facilities.

They should stick to noodles.

Eisboch

But you bought it because it was cheap. Think about that before responding.

Canuck57 wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
Went to Lowes and bought an 8' track lighting system to mount over my
"high end" guitar wall.

Installed the track, wired it up and put the first of four fixtures in it.
Worked fine.
Installed the second fixture. Worked fine.

Installed the third. Didn't work. Changed the bulb. Still didn't work.
Fiddled with it for a while then decided it is probably bad and put it
aside.

Installed the forth fixture. Didn't work. Changed the bulb, still didn't
work.
Fiddled around, still didn't work.

Finally took it apart to figure out why.

It could never have worked. It was put together wrong and if I had
happened to get the contacts to connect, it would have shorted out the
supply voltage.

I took the other one that didn't work apart. Same thing.

Looked at the boxes they came in. Sure enough. Brand name is
"Portfolio" but "Made in China" is printed in small print on the box.

Moral: Don't buy any electrical appliances or potentially dangerous/fire
producing items that are made in China. I am not kidding. This is not
the first time I've run into this. Some of the products being made in
China are dangerous. There is obviously no production or quality control
in some of their manufacturing facilities.

They should stick to noodles.

Eisboch

But you bought it because it was cheap. Think about that before responding.



I doubt he bught it because it was cheap. My guess is that he bought it
because it was what was available at the box store. Next time, he might
go to an electrical supplier and "spec" stuff that is *not* made in the
commie country.

"HK" wrote in message
...
Canuck57 wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
Went to Lowes and bought an 8' track lighting system to mount over my
"high end" guitar wall.

Installed the track, wired it up and put the first of four fixtures in
it. Worked fine.
Installed the second fixture. Worked fine.

Installed the third. Didn't work. Changed the bulb. Still didn't
work.
Fiddled with it for a while then decided it is probably bad and put it
aside.

Installed the forth fixture. Didn't work. Changed the bulb, still
didn't work.
Fiddled around, still didn't work.

Finally took it apart to figure out why.

It could never have worked. It was put together wrong and if I had
happened to get the contacts to connect, it would have shorted out the
supply voltage.

I took the other one that didn't work apart. Same thing.

Looked at the boxes they came in. Sure enough. Brand name is
"Portfolio" but "Made in China" is printed in small print on the box.

Moral: Don't buy any electrical appliances or potentially
dangerous/fire producing items that are made in China. I am not
kidding. This is not the first time I've run into this. Some of the
products being made in China are dangerous. There is obviously no
production or quality control in some of their manufacturing facilities.

They should stick to noodles.

Eisboch

But you bought it because it was cheap. Think about that before
responding.

I doubt he bught it because it was cheap. My guess is that he bought it
because it was what was available at the box store. Next time, he might go
to an electrical supplier and "spec" stuff that is *not* made in the
commie country.

Good spec stuff also comes from China. Buyer beware as crap comes from the
US and Canada too. It isn't a national issue, but a world one.