On Wed, 13 May 2009 08:49:04 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq."
wrote:

Once you determine what are effective techniques, then you can debate if
we want to use a technique that most people consider torture, and does
the end justify the means.

Good point.

Wizard of Woodstock wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2009 08:49:04 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq."
wrote:

Once you determine what are effective techniques, then you can debate if
we want to use a technique that most people consider torture, and does
the end justify the means.

Good point.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS...ing/index.html

All I know is as soon as I heard the water sloshing around in the
bucket, I would have confessed to every terrorist attack committed in
the last 50 yrs. I would also provide them the details of every
terrorist attack we were planning, we might be planning or that we will
plan in the future. Whatever you want to know, I will tell you.

--
Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq.

This Newsgroup post is a natural product. The slight variations in
spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in
no way are to be considered flaws or defects

"Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq." wrote in message
...
snip
I know if I was waterboarded, I would tell you about 100's
of terrorist activities that were in the works. I would admit to being
the lost Beatle, and would swear that I thought Harry and Donnie were
decent human beings.

snip --
Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq.


Sounds like waterboarding might do you some good...we might finally get some
truth out of you.

On May 13, 3:21*pm, "Don White" wrote:
"Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq." wrote in messagenews:1pKdnYINmKNdXJfXnZ2dnUVZ_jOdnZ2d@gigan ews.com...
snip
* I know if I was waterboarded, I would tell you about 100's

of terrorist activities that were in the works. *I would admit to being
the lost Beatle, and would swear that I thought Harry and Donnie were
decent human beings.

snip --
Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq.

Sounds like waterboarding might do you some good...we might finally get some
truth out of you.

Hoooboy, Harry's lover Don talking about truth.....

Don White wrote:
"Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq." wrote in message
...
snip
I know if I was waterboarded, I would tell you about 100's
of terrorist activities that were in the works. I would admit to being
the lost Beatle, and would swear that I thought Harry and Donnie were
decent human beings.

snip --
Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq.


Sounds like waterboarding might do you some good...we might finally get some
truth out of you.



Gee, is that the real p.o.s. Smithers or another faked Smithers, not
that I give a ****?

On May 13, 6:04*am, thunder wrote:
On Tue, 12 May 2009 15:50:23 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock wrote:
1 - The "dirty hands" dilemma which is really a cost/benefit analysis.
The usual circumstances are the "ticking bomb" scenario in which a bomb
is set to go off and kill thousands of people *- the cost of harming one
human life to save thousands of human lives is defensible and/or
excusable. This argument basically states that while morally
indefensible, the end result justifies the means.

If, in truth, there were a "ticking bomb", the torture argument does
become hazier, but the reality is that scenario is extremely rare, and
doesn't apply in this case. *This was torture used for plain old
"ordinary" intelligence. *When you put people in a violent situation,
there will be torture, and illegal killings. *That can be put down as
"**** happens", but when you allow torture as policy, you place this
country on the same level as Pinochet's Chile, Stalin's Soviet Union,
Hitler's Germany... *

To me, it isn't whether torture works or not, it's about what it says
about us. *We're ****in' barbarians.

I can't see it as going that far. To me that's like classifying ALL
U.S.detention centers as gulags. Those people were barbaric enough to
butcher people alive.

Odd, that we have used "A" water boarding technique, with privacy and
with doctors standing by with lifesaving equipment to be used if
necessary.

Back then they "waterbourded" with other detainees watching and if the
person didn't sing like a canary, he just plain drowned, then they'd
grab another and "next!" Somebody eventually spilled the beans.

On Wed, 13 May 2009 06:04:18 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Tue, 12 May 2009 15:50:23 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock wrote:


1 - The "dirty hands" dilemma which is really a cost/benefit analysis.
The usual circumstances are the "ticking bomb" scenario in which a bomb
is set to go off and kill thousands of people - the cost of harming one
human life to save thousands of human lives is defensible and/or
excusable. This argument basically states that while morally
indefensible, the end result justifies the means.

If, in truth, there were a "ticking bomb", the torture argument does
become hazier, but the reality is that scenario is extremely rare, and
doesn't apply in this case.

Ticking time bomb rare?
Not really. It's as common as bigfoot and Martians.
Non-existant.
Now, do you want to give government "authorities" who believe
in bigfoot and Martians the right to torture your kids?
Same deal.
I'll say it again. It is simply amazing that nominal Republicans want
to give Democrat Barack Obama a license to torture - in secret.
But this is what happens when political party hacks start setting
American values, and their followers go along for the ride.

This was torture used for plain old
"ordinary" intelligence. When you put people in a violent situation,
there will be torture, and illegal killings. That can be put down as
"**** happens", but when you allow torture as policy, you place this
country on the same level as Pinochet's Chile, Stalin's Soviet Union,
Hitler's Germany...

Which all tortured their own citizens, of course.
There are *always* "enemies of the state" within the borders.

To me, it isn't whether torture works or not, it's about what it says
about us. We're ****in' barbarians.

Worse. Barbarians were up front about cutting off your nuts.
In full light of day.
States sneak into your home in the night, take you to secret torture
chambers, then cut off your nuts.
Keep your family guessing. Part of the terror regime.

--Vic