"HK" wrote in message
m...


Well, the attitudes are just part of the military establishment macho
bull****. I think Obama will push the Pentagon in the right direction on
this issue. I also aom convinced Bush and Cheney didn't give a **** and
actually considered military personnel expendible meat.


Unbelievable.

Eisboch

On Mon, 11 May 2009 18:07:40 -0400, HK wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2009 14:34:45 -0400, HK wrote:

Maybe we should take their guns away

Despite what the righties here may think, I don't see anything humorous
in this situation, not even "snarkily" humorous. In case you haven't
noticed, the number of service personnel coming home from that war after
extended stays and then getting involved in spouse shootings and
suicides is way up, and this incident surely is part and parcel of that
sort of emotional stress.

It is an issue the military establishment has yet to address properly.


Something like reinstate the draft? Increase the gene pool?


I have no objection to reinstating the draft, so long as the only
exemptions are for serious physical or emotional disabilities.

Women's lib and the draft are incompatable.
Gonna fill half the Army with combat chicks?
Won't ever happen.

--Vic

On Mon, 11 May 2009 18:39:02 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .


Maybe we should take their guns away


Or certainly disqualify them from future postal worker union jobs.

Not making light of a sad story, but it's a aberration, not a norm.
More union postal workers have freaked out than active duty military.

Harry presents the sad news as if it's a epidemic. Of course.

Eisboch

The troops sent over for 3 or 4 tours are coming back with serious
psychological problems. They abused these soldiers without regard to
the consequences.

As far as percentages go, it is an epidemic.

Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2009 18:07:40 -0400, HK wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2009 14:34:45 -0400, HK wrote:

Maybe we should take their guns away
Despite what the righties here may think, I don't see anything humorous
in this situation, not even "snarkily" humorous. In case you haven't
noticed, the number of service personnel coming home from that war after
extended stays and then getting involved in spouse shootings and
suicides is way up, and this incident surely is part and parcel of that
sort of emotional stress.

It is an issue the military establishment has yet to address properly.

Something like reinstate the draft? Increase the gene pool?

I have no objection to reinstating the draft, so long as the only
exemptions are for serious physical or emotional disabilities.

Women's lib and the draft are incompatable.
Gonna fill half the Army with combat chicks?
Won't ever happen.

--Vic


The Israelis seem to have plenty of women in uniform, and they are
patrolling their cities with assault weapons over their shoulders.

jps wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2009 18:39:02 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:

wrote in message
...

Maybe we should take their guns away

Or certainly disqualify them from future postal worker union jobs.

Not making light of a sad story, but it's a aberration, not a norm.
More union postal workers have freaked out than active duty military.

Harry presents the sad news as if it's a epidemic. Of course.

Eisboch

The troops sent over for 3 or 4 tours are coming back with serious
psychological problems. They abused these soldiers without regard to
the consequences.

As far as percentages go, it is an epidemic.


Shhhhh. It's a secret.

On Mon, 11 May 2009 18:48:31 -0400, HK wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2009 18:07:40 -0400, HK wrote:


Women's lib and the draft are incompatable.
Gonna fill half the Army with combat chicks?
Won't ever happen.

--Vic


The Israelis seem to have plenty of women in uniform, and they are
patrolling their cities with assault weapons over their shoulders.

This ain't Israel.

--Vic

jps wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2009 14:34:45 -0400, HK wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2009 12:58:39 -0400, HK wrote:

A sad, sad news story:


May 12, 2009
U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq, Military Says
By TIMOTHY WILLIAMS
NY Times

BAGHDAD — The United States military said Monday that five American
soldiers had been shot to death by a fellow soldier who opened fire on
them at one of the biggest American bases in Baghdad, and that the
suspected shooter was in custody.

The killings appeared to be the worst case of lethal non-combat
casualties for the American forces in Iraq since the invasion more than
six years ago.

The shooting took place at around 2 p.m. local time at Camp Liberty, a
sprawling base next to Baghdad airport, the military said in a
statement. The names of the dead soldiers were being withheld pending
family notification, the statement said.

“Anytime we lose one of our own, it affects us all,” Col. John Robinson,
a spokesman for the U.S. military in Iraq, said in the statement.

CNN, citing unnamed officials, said that at least three others were
wounded in the attack, which it said had taken place at a clinic for
soldiers suffering from war stress.

- - -

It's still not clear the military establishment is taking seriously the
mental health problems of service personnel serving ever-extended tours
in Iraq and of service personnel not getting the help they need when
they return home. *The military still attaches a stigma to those who
seek help.* That has to stop, and until it does, whatever efforts the
military establishment takes to help these service personnel will not be
as effective as they need to be.

I think I mentioned here a couple of weeks ago the military and the VA
were engaging in a massive recruitment drive to get mental health
professionals to enlist, and to find more civilians with whom contract
arrangements can be established. Both, obviously, are needed.


Maybe we should take their guns away

Despite what the righties here may think, I don't see anything humorous
in this situation, not even "snarkily" humorous. In case you haven't
noticed, the number of service personnel coming home from that war after
extended stays and then getting involved in spouse shootings and
suicides is way up, and this incident surely is part and parcel of that
sort of emotional stress.

It is an issue the military establishment has yet to address properly.

The pentagon doesn't give a ****. These kids are just collateral, gun
carrying, expedible meat.

Right!

On Mon, 11 May 2009 19:23:56 -0400, BAR wrote:

jps wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2009 14:34:45 -0400, HK wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2009 12:58:39 -0400, HK wrote:

A sad, sad news story:


May 12, 2009
U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq, Military Says
By TIMOTHY WILLIAMS
NY Times

BAGHDAD — The United States military said Monday that five American
soldiers had been shot to death by a fellow soldier who opened fire on
them at one of the biggest American bases in Baghdad, and that the
suspected shooter was in custody.

The killings appeared to be the worst case of lethal non-combat
casualties for the American forces in Iraq since the invasion more than
six years ago.

The shooting took place at around 2 p.m. local time at Camp Liberty, a
sprawling base next to Baghdad airport, the military said in a
statement. The names of the dead soldiers were being withheld pending
family notification, the statement said.

“Anytime we lose one of our own, it affects us all,” Col. John Robinson,
a spokesman for the U.S. military in Iraq, said in the statement.

CNN, citing unnamed officials, said that at least three others were
wounded in the attack, which it said had taken place at a clinic for
soldiers suffering from war stress.

- - -

It's still not clear the military establishment is taking seriously the
mental health problems of service personnel serving ever-extended tours
in Iraq and of service personnel not getting the help they need when
they return home. *The military still attaches a stigma to those who
seek help.* That has to stop, and until it does, whatever efforts the
military establishment takes to help these service personnel will not be
as effective as they need to be.

I think I mentioned here a couple of weeks ago the military and the VA
were engaging in a massive recruitment drive to get mental health
professionals to enlist, and to find more civilians with whom contract
arrangements can be established. Both, obviously, are needed.


Maybe we should take their guns away

Despite what the righties here may think, I don't see anything humorous
in this situation, not even "snarkily" humorous. In case you haven't
noticed, the number of service personnel coming home from that war after
extended stays and then getting involved in spouse shootings and
suicides is way up, and this incident surely is part and parcel of that
sort of emotional stress.

It is an issue the military establishment has yet to address properly.

The pentagon doesn't give a ****. These kids are just collateral, gun
carrying, expedible meat.

Right!

You make a very compelling case.

HK wrote:


I have no objection to reinstating the draft, so long as the only
exemptions are for ... emotional disabilities.

Sure, you have no objection to the draft, as long as they give you an
easy exemption.
--
Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq.

This Newsgroup post is a natural product. The slight variations in
spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in
no way are to be considered flaws or defects

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...


Maybe we should take their guns away


Or certainly disqualify them from future postal worker union jobs.

Not making light of a sad story, but it's a aberration, not a norm.
More union postal workers have freaked out than active duty military.

Harry presents the sad news as if it's a epidemic. Of course.

Eisboch

1 in 5 have PTSD of some degree. Few people that aren't affected by it know
much at all about PTSD. These kids may not kill others or themselves but
they are affected just the same. We send these kids to the grinder time
after time and ignore the outcome.

From an interview with the VA.
http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2008/soldi...cial_ptsd.html
P.O.V.: What are the current rates of mental health problems in soldiers
returning from Iraq and Afghanistan?

Maguen: A recent RAND study found that 1 in 5 veterans deployed to Iraq or
Afghanistan suffered from PTSD or major depression. These rates are somewhat
similar to those reported in other scientific studies. An initial report by
Hoge and colleagues (2004) indicated that 16 to 17 percent of returning
Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF) combat veterans and 11 percent of returning
Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) combat veterans met screening criteria for
at least one mental health disorder. In a more recent study, Hoge and
colleagues (2006) found that the prevalence of screening positive for a
mental health problem was 19 percent among service members returning from
Iraq and 11 percent after returning from Afghanistan. Among OIF/OEF veterans
seen at VA healthcare facilities, 25 percent received mental health
diagnoses, with 56 percent of these meeting criteria for two or more mental
health diagnoses (Seal et al., 2007).

Mental health problems are related to impairments in physical health and
general functioning. For example, those with PTSD often experience
difficulties in many domains of functioning such as relationships and
employment. There have also been several studies that document the
relationship between PTSD symptoms and physical health. In one recent study
of newly returning veterans, those with PTSD also manifested more physical
symptoms - greater symptom severity, lower ratings of general health, more
sick call visits and more missed workdays - even after taking into account
those who have been injured or wounded (Hoge and colleagues, 2007).