On Wed, 06 May 2009 22:37:03 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:



Several names have been used inconjunction with this type of
interrogation technique. The Spanish used to call it tortura del agua
during the Inquisition and it has various other names from
"surfboarding" to "showering" to it's more recent contraction from
water board torture to waterboarding. In my experience, it's always
been called water boarding and described as a form of hydropathic
torture. There are even references to it as far back as Third Dynasty
Egypt where it was called "water trial" and the Romans called it
"water truth telling".

The interesting thing is that the technique has always been true in
terms of practice - cloth, upside down, water forced into nasal
passages and the mouth simulating drowning no matter what it was
called.

Not being a pedant, just pointing something out. :)

In the SERE program, it's always been called water boarding.

Right. In the procedure manual it's probably in a chapter called
"Enemy Torture Techniques." My point to Eisboch was it's plain silly
to "debate" whether or not it's torture.
For example, 2 U.S. government torturers are finishing their coffee
in the torturers lounge, or maybe at Starbucks.
The experienced old pro torturer and the trainee. Phil and Ted.
Phil: "Hey, let's get back to work, kid. The guy they picked up in
Queens ain't talking. Looks like he's needs some torture."
Ted: "I'm from Queens. ****in' ragheads taking over the place.
We gonna waterboard him, Phil?"
Phil: "Hell kid. You got a lot to learn. Waterboarding isn't
torture. It's just an "Enhanced Interogation Technique."
Ted: "Then let's enhanced interrogation technique the cocksucker until
he talks."
Phil: "Now you're catching on. I got a feeling you'll do well."
So they get to the "office," and Ted sees the guy prepped on the
board.
Ted: "Hey, that's my brother!"
Phil; "No ****!? He's been visiting that Arab coffee shop on Ditmars.
It's pegged as a terrorist cell hangout."
Ted: "Yeah, he likes that Arab-style coffee. That's all."
Phil: "Sure, that's his story. But we'll get the truth out of him."
Ted: "You sure?"
Phil: "Orders from POTUS. All legal."
Ted: "Okay, let's get to work."

Yeah, it's as much fantasy as that bull**** "ticking time bomb"
scenario that never happened.
But you've probably heard of the study they did back in the '50's
where they pulled Joe Blows off the street - in NYC I think.
Paid them a few bucks to engage in a study where they twisted a knob
to apply electric current to "volunteers." Some ungodly percentage of
the volunteers were willing to **** up the "volunteers" by dialing up
the juice. Because it was done under the auspices of "authority."
I don't trust the "authorities." I don't trust Joe Blow who is given
torture rights by the "authorities."
I trust the rule of law, ground slow and fine.
I'm a Conservative. Old style.
Got nothing to do with sympathy for raghead terrorists.
Got nothing to do with what political party is in power.
It's about the United States Constitution and the rule of law.
Without that, we're no better than terrorists.

--Vic

Vic Smith wrote:

I'm a Conservative. Old style.
Got nothing to do with sympathy for raghead terrorists.
Got nothing to do with what political party is in power.
It's about the United States Constitution and the rule of law.
Without that, we're no better than terrorists.

--Vic


That's interesting, because I've always had a lot of respect for
"old-style conservatives," but none at all for "new-style conservatives."

A lot of old-style conservatism was embodied by Barry Goldwater, who
would have been (and was) appalled by "new-style" conservatives, with
their invasions of privacy, attempts to control women, eagerness to
invade other countries and spend without taxing to pay for it.

On Thu, 07 May 2009 08:20:05 -0400, HK wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:

I'm a Conservative. Old style.
Got nothing to do with sympathy for raghead terrorists.
Got nothing to do with what political party is in power.
It's about the United States Constitution and the rule of law.
Without that, we're no better than terrorists.

--Vic


That's interesting, because I've always had a lot of respect for
"old-style conservatives," but none at all for "new-style conservatives."

A lot of old-style conservatism was embodied by Barry Goldwater, who
would have been (and was) appalled by "new-style" conservatives, with
their invasions of privacy, attempts to control women, eagerness to
invade other countries and spend without taxing to pay for it.

I tossed the "conservative" in because IMO it applies to my
interpretation of the Constitution with respect to individual freedom
and giving the gov too much power.
It's just a blurred label. Means nothing really, without seeing the
fine print.
Anybody can call themselves whatever they want with impunity.
The Law isn't so forgiving in definitions.

--Vic

On May 6, 7:25*pm, HK wrote:
wrote:

Yeah, but our Connecticut Queen is just another little schitt.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The only little **** is in your pink panties when you think about
meeting up with me or Loogie... Face it WAFA, you are a quivering
coward barking from under your desk, hiding behind your widdew
capguns...

Right. I'm scared of a chronically ill, sawed-off little schitt with
brain damage...you.

Harry, if that were true, how come you pussied up when I asked you for
your flight information?

On May 6, 4:24*pm, HK wrote:
Don White wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
om...
Don White wrote:
"jim78565" wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
news:GYmdnUAwbcJ2ApzXnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@giganew s.com...
"Don White" wrote in message
et...
wrote in message
...
I think I finally got an ID on my Grandfathers Boat. Ever heard of a
Waymouth?. An older fishing charter Captain down the Lake from me
ID'd
it. Dont know if it's positive, but he swears that's what it is.
Gonna do a google on it, and see if I get a hit.

Can't say I have.
Is it spelled Waymouth or Weymouth? * * * * * * * * * * * *S.
The Brits have a bad habit of misspelling many words.

Eisboch
I happen to know that you also have a Weymouth in MA. *(we have one
here in NS of course).
A future professional hockey player named Bobby Sheehan, who was in my
grade 12 class when he played his junior hockey here, came from there.

As a matter of fact, I believe our village got it's name from the
Loyalists who left Mass in the mid 1700s when the ungrateful rabble was
acting up..
http://www.weymouthnovascotia.com/
My gawd. You sure do know your geography.
And when it came time to fight for what's right, the pansies ran north.
What's the matter...?
You still sore from your navy days when someone sabotaged you by putting
sand in your Vasoline?
You sure have some oblique "penpals." Is SepticTank FloridaJim referring
to U.S. males who headed north during the war against Vietnam so they
wouldn't have to bomb or shoot women, children and villages in order to
protect Topeka, Kansas, from an invasion by the Viet Cong?

I think he's buried way back further in the past......to the United Empire
Loyalists who remained loyal to the King.
Most gave up all they had to re-settle up here. *My maternal grandmothers'
family came up from New York after the revolution.
We probably have a legtimate claim to a tiny piece of Harlem....

Ahh. Perhaps you can outline for us how Canada and Canadians have
suffered the last 100 years or so by maintaining ties to England.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Tariff policies.

On Thu, 07 May 2009 07:07:58 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Wed, 06 May 2009 22:37:03 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:



Several names have been used inconjunction with this type of
interrogation technique. The Spanish used to call it tortura del agua
during the Inquisition and it has various other names from
"surfboarding" to "showering" to it's more recent contraction from
water board torture to waterboarding. In my experience, it's always
been called water boarding and described as a form of hydropathic
torture. There are even references to it as far back as Third Dynasty
Egypt where it was called "water trial" and the Romans called it
"water truth telling".

The interesting thing is that the technique has always been true in
terms of practice - cloth, upside down, water forced into nasal
passages and the mouth simulating drowning no matter what it was
called.

Not being a pedant, just pointing something out. :)

In the SERE program, it's always been called water boarding.

Right. In the procedure manual it's probably in a chapter called
"Enemy Torture Techniques." My point to Eisboch was it's plain silly
to "debate" whether or not it's torture.
For example, 2 U.S. government torturers are finishing their coffee
in the torturers lounge, or maybe at Starbucks.
The experienced old pro torturer and the trainee. Phil and Ted.
Phil: "Hey, let's get back to work, kid. The guy they picked up in
Queens ain't talking. Looks like he's needs some torture."
Ted: "I'm from Queens. ****in' ragheads taking over the place.
We gonna waterboard him, Phil?"
Phil: "Hell kid. You got a lot to learn. Waterboarding isn't
torture. It's just an "Enhanced Interogation Technique."
Ted: "Then let's enhanced interrogation technique the cocksucker until
he talks."
Phil: "Now you're catching on. I got a feeling you'll do well."
So they get to the "office," and Ted sees the guy prepped on the
board.
Ted: "Hey, that's my brother!"
Phil; "No ****!? He's been visiting that Arab coffee shop on Ditmars.
It's pegged as a terrorist cell hangout."
Ted: "Yeah, he likes that Arab-style coffee. That's all."
Phil: "Sure, that's his story. But we'll get the truth out of him."
Ted: "You sure?"
Phil: "Orders from POTUS. All legal."
Ted: "Okay, let's get to work."

Yeah, it's as much fantasy as that bull**** "ticking time bomb"
scenario that never happened.
But you've probably heard of the study they did back in the '50's
where they pulled Joe Blows off the street - in NYC I think.
Paid them a few bucks to engage in a study where they twisted a knob
to apply electric current to "volunteers." Some ungodly percentage of
the volunteers were willing to **** up the "volunteers" by dialing up
the juice. Because it was done under the auspices of "authority."
I don't trust the "authorities." I don't trust Joe Blow who is given
torture rights by the "authorities."
I trust the rule of law, ground slow and fine.
I'm a Conservative. Old style.
Got nothing to do with sympathy for raghead terrorists.
Got nothing to do with what political party is in power.
It's about the United States Constitution and the rule of law.
Without that, we're no better than terrorists.

--Vic

Beautiful. Thanks.

On Wed, 6 May 2009 20:01:46 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 06 May 2009 17:01:56 -0400, HK wrote:

Don White wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
Don White wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
Don White wrote:
"jim78565" wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"Don White" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
I think I finally got an ID on my Grandfathers Boat. Ever heard
of
a
Waymouth?. An older fishing charter Captain down the Lake from
me
ID'd
it. Dont know if it's positive, but he swears that's what it
is.
Gonna do a google on it, and see if I get a hit.


Can't say I have.
Is it spelled Waymouth or Weymouth? S.
The Brits have a bad habit of misspelling many words.

Eisboch
I happen to know that you also have a Weymouth in MA. (we have
one
here in NS of course).
A future professional hockey player named Bobby Sheehan, who was
in
my grade 12 class when he played his junior hockey here, came from
there.

As a matter of fact, I believe our village got it's name from the
Loyalists who left Mass in the mid 1700s when the ungrateful
rabble
was acting up..
http://www.weymouthnovascotia.com/
My gawd. You sure do know your geography.
And when it came time to fight for what's right, the pansies ran
north.
What's the matter...?
You still sore from your navy days when someone sabotaged you by
putting sand in your Vasoline?
You sure have some oblique "penpals." Is SepticTank FloridaJim
referring
to U.S. males who headed north during the war against Vietnam so they
wouldn't have to bomb or shoot women, children and villages in order
to
protect Topeka, Kansas, from an invasion by the Viet Cong?

I think he's buried way back further in the past......to the United
Empire Loyalists who remained loyal to the King.
Most gave up all they had to re-settle up here. My maternal
grandmothers' family came up from New York after the revolution.
We probably have a legtimate claim to a tiny piece of Harlem....

Ahh. Perhaps you can outline for us how Canada and Canadians have
suffered
the last 100 years or so by maintaining ties to England.

At one time the preferred trading status with the Commonwealth including
Great Britain meant a lot.
At this point... the questionable spending to maintain the Governor
General
in Ottawa and the provincial Lt. Governors expenses as the Queens
representatives might bother a few citizens.




Yeah, but the Queen comes to visit... :)

That's the Queen Mum to you.

Yup...the Queen Mum was always popular here...a proper Scottish lady.
As you know she died back in 2002 (hard to believe 7 years already) at the
ripe old age of 101.
When she was young, Queen Elizabeth herself was quite fetching.but I never
cared much for that husband of hers...Philip.
Interest in the Royals ebbed a bit but sprung up with a visit by Prince
Charles and Princess Diana in the early '80s

I never could understand some peoples obsession with royals,
especially by Americans. The Canadians have an excuse, the Queen is
even on their dough. But then I am rather unimpressed with celebrities
in general. I would never dream of asking a movie actor for an
autograph. I figure they are entitled to a life when not working.

Casady

On Wed, 06 May 2009 18:32:10 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

roblem is, arguing about whether water torture is torture is sort of
meaningless, don't you think? I mean, it's called water torture.
Well it was - until the American government started using it.
Then it became waterboarding. I guess some folks are easily confused.
Anybody who lets a name get in the way of truth isn't thinking
clearly.

When I was a kid reading about the Japs using it on US POWs it was
torture.
They put a long strip of cloth in the victims mouth. They would hold
on to one end while the victim swallowed it. Then they would pull it
out, slowly, so slowly. They use the cans the cooking kerosene came in
and didn't bother to rinse them well. They also ****ed into them. When
the victim was full, looking 9 1/2 months pregnant, they would smack
them across the belly with a heavy iron bar and burst the stomach.
They knew how to waterboard in those days. I figure they ought to send
torturers to prison with pedophile paperwork. See how they like being
raped to death.

Casady

On Wed, 6 May 2009 19:48:15 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:

Frankly, until this issue arose, I had never heard of water boarding.

Lucky you. I read about it in the school library when I was 12.

Casady

On Thu, 07 May 2009 09:48:48 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote:



I never could understand some peoples obsession with royals,
especially by Americans. The Canadians have an excuse, the Queen is
even on their dough. But then I am rather unimpressed with celebrities
in general. I would never dream of asking a movie actor for an
autograph. I figure they are entitled to a life when not working.

One of my kids told me about a hilarious incident he had when he
visited Hollywood while on a cross-country driving vacation.
He hit a big Mercedes with his Chevy station wagon, or the Mercedes
hit him. The Merc had a "driver' and the owner was in the back seat.
The black guy from a TV show called E.R.
Never watched it and don't know who he is. My son didn't either.
It was a little fender bender deal where my son had inched out of an
alley or parking lot and the Merc came speeding by, scraping the side
against the kid's front bumper. Probably mostly my son's fault.
The Merc went on a hundred feet or so before stopping.
Son was barely out his car before a guy came running from a nearby
restaurant.
"Do you know who you're in a accident with!!?"
Guy is all breathless excited, and say's "That's blah blah"
My kid is thinking WTF?
And this guy gets even more excited because my son never heard of him.
There was other stuff about how he and this actor did a stare-down.
Funny, but you have to hear him tell the story.
Anyway, there's lots of people who live their lives worshiping others.
Bottom line and most important is it didn't cost the kid a dime.
Probably best to pick rich actors for fender benders.

--Vic