"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"HK" wrote in message
m...


Let's keep in mind the fact that the pirates are holding a very valuable
hostage who has proved how worthy he is. So long as he is alive and
unharmed, it is important for cool heads to prevail. Also keep in mind
other pirates in that area are holding other crews as hostages. What is
needed is a plan that can be implemented to sweep these waters of
pirates, and keep them them clean, far worthier tasks for a military
force than invading a country on trumped-up charges from lying
politicians that they are building weapons of mass destruction.




I agree. This situation is far more complex than some of the Clint
Eastwood types calling out, "Make my day" think it is.

The commanding officer of the Bainbridge is under rules of engagement that
precludes him from taking any action that would put the hostage's life in
jeopardy. Some people are critical that the lifeboat wasn't "blown out
of the water" when the hostage briefly jumped overboard.
The reality is that in the middle of the night and from over 200 yards
away, any firepower brought to bear on the lifeboat would also have a
significant risk to the hostage.

The rules of engagement change if the destroyer itself is in danger due to
attack. Under those circumstances the captain is authorized to take any
action necessary to save his ship. Four guys in a powerless lifeboat
armed with small arms and maybe AK-47's isn't exactly a serious threat to
a destroyer.

This is a tough situation. Apparently there are about 200 other hostages
that are being held as ransom bait by these pirates and some of them are
on the boats that the pirates have called upon for reinforcement.
"Blowing them out of the water" brings the same risk of killing hostages.

Right now, nobody is going anywhere and time is on the side of the hostage
and of the Navy.

Eisboch

And BTW, this may surprise some, but IMO Obama is doing exactly the right
thing. He's not commenting, he's not showing his hand. The best thing he
can do is to keep the pirates guessing while professional negotiators do
their job.

Eisboch

On Apr 11, 9:53*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message

...







"HK" wrote in message
om...

Let's keep in mind the fact that the pirates are holding a very valuable
hostage who has proved how worthy he is. So long as he is alive and
unharmed, it is important for cool heads to prevail. Also keep in mind
other pirates in that area are holding other crews as hostages. What is
needed is a plan that can be implemented to sweep these waters of
pirates, and keep them them clean, far worthier tasks for a military
force than invading a country on trumped-up charges from lying
politicians that they are building weapons of mass destruction.

I agree. *This situation is far more complex than some of the Clint
Eastwood types calling out, "Make my day" think it is.

The commanding officer of the Bainbridge is under rules of engagement that
precludes him from taking any action that would put the hostage's life in
jeopardy. * Some people are critical that the lifeboat wasn't "blown out
of the water" *when the hostage briefly jumped overboard.
The reality is that in the middle of the night and from over 200 yards
away, any firepower brought to bear on the lifeboat would also have a
significant risk to the hostage.

The rules of engagement change if the destroyer itself is in danger due to
attack. *Under those circumstances the captain is authorized to take any
action necessary to save his ship. * *Four guys in a powerless lifeboat
armed with small arms and maybe AK-47's *isn't exactly a serious threat to
a destroyer.

This is a tough situation. * Apparently there are about 200 other hostages
that are being held as ransom bait by these pirates and some of them are
on the boats that the pirates have called upon for reinforcement.
"Blowing them out of the water" *brings the same risk of killing hostages.

Right now, nobody is going anywhere and time is on the side of the hostage
and of the Navy.

Eisboch

And BTW, *this may surprise some, but IMO *Obama is doing exactly the right
thing. *He's not commenting, he's not showing his hand. * The best thing he
can do is to keep the pirates guessing while professional negotiators do
their job.

Eisboch- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Not to mention the POTUS shouldn't let 4 guys with AK47's draw his
attention. There are American citizens held hostage every day right
here at home... He can't and shouldn't address every one of them.

wrote in message
...
On Apr 11, 9:53 am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message

...







"HK" wrote in message
om...

Let's keep in mind the fact that the pirates are holding a very
valuable
hostage who has proved how worthy he is. So long as he is alive and
unharmed, it is important for cool heads to prevail. Also keep in mind
other pirates in that area are holding other crews as hostages. What is
needed is a plan that can be implemented to sweep these waters of
pirates, and keep them them clean, far worthier tasks for a military
force than invading a country on trumped-up charges from lying
politicians that they are building weapons of mass destruction.

I agree. This situation is far more complex than some of the Clint
Eastwood types calling out, "Make my day" think it is.

The commanding officer of the Bainbridge is under rules of engagement
that
precludes him from taking any action that would put the hostage's life
in
jeopardy. Some people are critical that the lifeboat wasn't "blown out
of the water" when the hostage briefly jumped overboard.
The reality is that in the middle of the night and from over 200 yards
away, any firepower brought to bear on the lifeboat would also have a
significant risk to the hostage.

The rules of engagement change if the destroyer itself is in danger due
to
attack. Under those circumstances the captain is authorized to take any
action necessary to save his ship. Four guys in a powerless lifeboat
armed with small arms and maybe AK-47's isn't exactly a serious threat
to
a destroyer.

This is a tough situation. Apparently there are about 200 other hostages
that are being held as ransom bait by these pirates and some of them are
on the boats that the pirates have called upon for reinforcement.
"Blowing them out of the water" brings the same risk of killing
hostages.

Right now, nobody is going anywhere and time is on the side of the
hostage
and of the Navy.

Eisboch

And BTW, this may surprise some, but IMO Obama is doing exactly the right
thing. He's not commenting, he's not showing his hand. The best thing he
can do is to keep the pirates guessing while professional negotiators do
their job.

Eisboch- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Not to mention the POTUS shouldn't let 4 guys with AK47's draw his
attention. There are American citizens held hostage every day right
here at home... He can't and shouldn't address every one of them.

--------------------------------

I am sure these a-holes have his riveted attention. Like many, I've been
following
this situation play out and I am so far impressed with how it's being
handled.

Some people have seen too many movies. Real life desperate people with guns
who
get the impression that it's "them or us" are truly dangerous. Having
someone firing
a weapon at you in earnest is a experience you don't quickly forget.

Eisboch

wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 20:51:52 -0700 (PDT), Mike wrote:

On Apr 10, 8:13?pm, Frogwatch wrote:
For GOD's sake, send reinforcements quick. ?A billion dollar destroyer
that could single handedly defeat Japan in WW2 is stymied by three
thugs in a lifeboat and Obama panics and sends reinforcements when he
hears they may be joined by another unarmed merchant vessel with a
dozen or so pirates.
Obama sends a stern warning, "I'm not kidding, unless they reduce
their demands to $1 million, this time I'll not only bow, I'll pucker
up too" sure put the fear of something into those pirates.

Meanwhile, those awful brits at the UK Telegraph are calling Obama a
"Pantywaist surrender monkey". ?When a euro type calls you that, its
gotta hurt.
You dumb a**, obviously we could to anything from a helicopter mission
to a nucular attack. In all cases the Captain we are trying to save
would die. Period. Yeah, we can kill the bad guys...you got any
ideas how to keep the Captain alive while we do that? You want to
trade places with the Captain?
Ain't always easy
Mike
\

Maybe the Israelis are right. Don't negotiate with terrorists. If
these pirates even get out of this alive, what is the lesson we have
given the rest of the pirates?

The negotiations should go like this.

USA: Our terms are you have 2 hours to return the Captain of the US ship
or you will all die.

On Apr 11, 10:20*am, BAR wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 20:51:52 -0700 (PDT), Mike wrote:

On Apr 10, 8:13?pm, Frogwatch wrote:
For GOD's sake, send reinforcements quick. ?A billion dollar destroyer
that could single handedly defeat Japan in WW2 is stymied by three
thugs in a lifeboat and Obama panics and sends reinforcements when he
hears they may be joined by another unarmed merchant vessel with a
dozen or so pirates.
Obama sends a stern warning, "I'm not kidding, unless they reduce
their demands to $1 million, this time I'll not only bow, I'll pucker
up too" sure put the fear of something into those pirates.

Meanwhile, those awful brits at the UK Telegraph are calling Obama a
"Pantywaist surrender monkey". ?When a euro type calls you that, its
gotta hurt.
You dumb a**, obviously we could to anything from a helicopter mission
to a nucular attack. *In all cases the Captain we are trying to save
would die. *Period. *Yeah, we can kill the bad guys...you got any
ideas how to keep the Captain alive while we do that? *You want to
trade places with the Captain?
Ain't always easy
Mike
\

Maybe the Israelis are right. Don't negotiate with terrorists. If
these pirates even get out of this alive, what is the lesson we have
given the rest of the pirates?

The negotiations should go like this.

USA: Our terms are you have 2 hours to return the Captain of the US ship
or you will all die.

I agree with this post....

On Apr 11, 9:53*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message

...







"HK" wrote in message
om...

Let's keep in mind the fact that the pirates are holding a very valuable
hostage who has proved how worthy he is. So long as he is alive and
unharmed, it is important for cool heads to prevail. Also keep in mind
other pirates in that area are holding other crews as hostages. What is
needed is a plan that can be implemented to sweep these waters of
pirates, and keep them them clean, far worthier tasks for a military
force than invading a country on trumped-up charges from lying
politicians that they are building weapons of mass destruction.

I agree. *This situation is far more complex than some of the Clint
Eastwood types calling out, "Make my day" think it is.

The commanding officer of the Bainbridge is under rules of engagement that
precludes him from taking any action that would put the hostage's life in
jeopardy. * Some people are critical that the lifeboat wasn't "blown out
of the water" *when the hostage briefly jumped overboard.
The reality is that in the middle of the night and from over 200 yards
away, any firepower brought to bear on the lifeboat would also have a
significant risk to the hostage.

The rules of engagement change if the destroyer itself is in danger due to
attack. *Under those circumstances the captain is authorized to take any
action necessary to save his ship. * *Four guys in a powerless lifeboat
armed with small arms and maybe AK-47's *isn't exactly a serious threat to
a destroyer.

This is a tough situation. * Apparently there are about 200 other hostages
that are being held as ransom bait by these pirates and some of them are
on the boats that the pirates have called upon for reinforcement.
"Blowing them out of the water" *brings the same risk of killing hostages.

Right now, nobody is going anywhere and time is on the side of the hostage
and of the Navy.

Eisboch

And BTW, *this may surprise some, but IMO *Obama is doing exactly the right
thing. *He's not commenting, he's not showing his hand. * The best thing he
can do is to keep the pirates guessing while professional negotiators do
their job.

Eisboch- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And "expert" on TV this morning was saying the same thing. And he was
talking about how time is on our side. Play the waiting game, and they
will have to fold.

wrote in message
...

On Apr 11, 10:20 am, BAR wrote:

The negotiations should go like this.

USA: Our terms are you have 2 hours to return the Captain of the US ship
or you will all die.

I agree with this post....

-------------------------

Are you both willing to honor the implied contract that if they release the
captain, they won't die?
Are you willing to knowingly and willingly sacrifice the hostage?

Eisboch

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...

On Apr 11, 10:20 am, BAR wrote:

The negotiations should go like this.

USA: Our terms are you have 2 hours to return the Captain of the US ship
or you will all die.

I agree with this post....

-------------------------

Are you both willing to honor the implied contract that if they release
the captain, they won't die?
Are you willing to knowingly and willingly sacrifice the hostage?

Eisboch



Put the additional item in there that we will go into your home towns and
kill your families also. Not legal, but they understand that part about
killing the relatives as it is done by themselves.

On Apr 11, 1:36*pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message

...





wrote in message
....

On Apr 11, 10:20 am, BAR wrote:

The negotiations should go like this.

USA: Our terms are you have 2 hours to return the Captain of the US ship
or you will all die.

I agree with this post....

-------------------------

Are you both willing to honor the implied contract that if they release
the captain, they won't die?
Are you willing to knowingly and willingly sacrifice the hostage?

Eisboch

Put the additional item in there that we will go into your home towns and
kill your families also. *Not legal, but they understand that part about
killing the relatives as it is done by themselves.
t
You've all missed the point. Bush exuded the impression that if you
mess with the USA, that he was crazy enough to stomp you regardless of
consequences.
Obama gives the impression of "Please dont hit me, I'll give you my
lunch money". His bow to the Saudi King was a clear indication of no
action toward pirates.

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Apr 11, 1:36 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message

...





wrote in message
...

On Apr 11, 10:20 am, BAR wrote:

The negotiations should go like this.

USA: Our terms are you have 2 hours to return the Captain of the US
ship
or you will all die.

I agree with this post....

-------------------------

Are you both willing to honor the implied contract that if they release
the captain, they won't die?
Are you willing to knowingly and willingly sacrifice the hostage?

Eisboch

Put the additional item in there that we will go into your home towns and
kill your families also. Not legal, but they understand that part about
killing the relatives as it is done by themselves.
t
You've all missed the point. Bush exuded the impression that if you
mess with the USA, that he was crazy enough to stomp you regardless of
consequences.
Obama gives the impression of "Please dont hit me, I'll give you my
lunch money". His bow to the Saudi King was a clear indication of no
action toward pirates.

--------------------------

The jury is still out in my mind. I'll wait to see what the final outcome
of this mess is.
Right now I think he is doing the right thing by not delivering threats,
etc.
If the hostage is finally released and no further action is taken against
the pirates or where they came from, my opinion will probably change.

Eisboch