On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 18:03:42 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:



Interestingly, the first military action taken by the United States after
we became an independent nation was against the Barbary pirates who were
doing exactly the same thing then as the Somali pirates are doing today.
They were capturing European ships and demanding ransom payments. They
then began attacking US ships. At first Congress appropriated money to be
paid as ransom but Thomas Jefferson had some balls and led the effort to
confront them. We didn't really have a global Navy at the time, but what
we had were sent to the Med and they took care of business.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/collecti.../mtjprece.html


The Barbary states were pushovers compared with Somalia.
No leaders in Somalia.
The only answer I see is to make pirating suicidal.
One tactic might be to carpet bomb any port where ships are held
captive - after the ships are ransomed of course.
But it will generate very bad publicity and all kinds of hand
wringing.

--Vic

Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 18:03:42 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


Interestingly, the first military action taken by the United States after
we became an independent nation was against the Barbary pirates who were
doing exactly the same thing then as the Somali pirates are doing today.
They were capturing European ships and demanding ransom payments. They
then began attacking US ships. At first Congress appropriated money to be
paid as ransom but Thomas Jefferson had some balls and led the effort to
confront them. We didn't really have a global Navy at the time, but what
we had were sent to the Med and they took care of business.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/collecti.../mtjprece.html


The Barbary states were pushovers compared with Somalia.
No leaders in Somalia.
The only answer I see is to make pirating suicidal.
One tactic might be to carpet bomb any port where ships are held
captive - after the ships are ransomed of course.
But it will generate very bad publicity and all kinds of hand
wringing.

--Vic



I dunno, Vic. It seems when we use our brawn instead of our brains on
these failed states, we seem to make it easier for terrorists and despots.

--
Palin & Bachmann in 2012 -
All Stupidity All the Time

"HK" wrote in message
...
Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 8 Apr 2009 18:03:42 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


Interestingly, the first military action taken by the United States
after we became an independent nation was against the Barbary pirates
who were doing exactly the same thing then as the Somali pirates are
doing today. They were capturing European ships and demanding ransom
payments. They then began attacking US ships. At first Congress
appropriated money to be paid as ransom but Thomas Jefferson had some
balls and led the effort to confront them. We didn't really have a
global Navy at the time, but what we had were sent to the Med and they
took care of business.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/collecti.../mtjprece.html


The Barbary states were pushovers compared with Somalia.
No leaders in Somalia.
The only answer I see is to make pirating suicidal.
One tactic might be to carpet bomb any port where ships are held
captive - after the ships are ransomed of course.
But it will generate very bad publicity and all kinds of hand
wringing.

--Vic



I dunno, Vic. It seems when we use our brawn instead of our brains on
these failed states, we seem to make it easier for terrorists and despots.


So what is the solution? Call a meeting and ask them politely to please
stop doing this?
Or, we do what was done back in the Barbary days and negotiate an annual
payment to the pirates to ensure safe passage of our ships? That's what
most of
Europe was doing in those days.

Eisboch

On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 18:31:45 -0400, HK wrote:



I dunno, Vic. It seems when we use our brawn instead of our brains on
these failed states, we seem to make it easier for terrorists and despots.

A "failed state" is one that can freely harbor terrorists, pirates,
etc. Sometimes nothing works to instill order but brawn.
Using brains would mean getting the locals to use the brawn.
If you can, fine. But you'll still get blamed for the violence.

--Vic

On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 19:00:14 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 18:31:45 -0400, HK wrote:



I dunno, Vic. It seems when we use our brawn instead of our brains on
these failed states, we seem to make it easier for terrorists and despots.

A "failed state" is one that can freely harbor terrorists, pirates,
etc. Sometimes nothing works to instill order but brawn.
Using brains would mean getting the locals to use the brawn.
If you can, fine. But you'll still get blamed for the violence.

--Vic

Maybe we could offer them jobs - if we had any.