OT Confiscatory taxation
 

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Eisboch wrote:

"wf3h" wrote in message
...

as the nobel prize winning economist paul krugman pointed it, it's as
if for every year of the last 30, every middle class family sent a
check for $10,000 to the richest 0.1% of americans.

--------------------------------------

Bull****.

"It's as if" is not "as it is".

The rich got richer because the world got richer. Wealth was created,
not redistributed from the middle class. I agree that wealthy people are
typically in a better position to gain more wealth through wealth
creation, but they are not "taking it" from middle class.

Where you people get this goofy idea, I don't know.


Kinda flies in the face of what you've accepted as your conventional
wisdom, eh?

The "middle class" is far worse off financially...where has its wealth
gone? Into the pockets of the wealthy.

Nonsense. The wealthy have increased their wealth at a rate faster than
inflation.
The middle class has not been able to do the same in many cases, although
over-all the middle class is still better off today than the middle class of
say, 30 or 40 years ago.

But don't confuse the issue. The wealthy (other than crooks and thieves
like Madoff) aren't taking money away from the middle class. They are
creating new wealth.

What is at odds with fairness is the ability to "get richer". The middle
class should enjoy the same opportunities in terms of fairness. Some do so
anyway and become wealthier. But the notion that those who acquired wealth
did so by taking it from the middle class is just plain wrong.

Eisboch

OT Confiscatory taxation
 

"wf3h" wrote in message
...

On Mar 22, 6:21 am, "Eisboch" wrote:


The increased tax revenues? They came primarily from the other liberal
arch-enemy .... business.



and business just got it back. in spades. paid for by the middle
class.
------------------------------------

Who authorized that?

Eisboch

OT Confiscatory taxation
 

wf3h wrote:
On Mar 21, 6:03 pm, John H wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:59:04 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote:





On Mar 21, 5:10 pm, BAR wrote:
wf3h wrote:
au contraire. the lack of unions has destroyed the US middle class.
Can you provide a definition for the middle class? The Census Bureau
doesn't define the middle class so there is no way to argue for or
against the destruction of the middle class.
the census bureau is not in charge of economics.
the middle class generally is those making between 30,000 to 100,000.
it's a reason why income inequality in the US is among the greatest in
the world and wall street runs amuck with little oversight.
What is income inequality? My definition of income inequality is those
that get off there asses and work and those who are lazy *******s who
don't want to work.
IOW you don't follow economics. you don't know the richest 1% have had
their incomes increase by over 200% in the last 10 years or so while
the middle class stagnated.
no wonder you love to **** the middle class. you dont even believe we
should be able to earn a living wage.
There is a road construction
project going on at the end of my street. We have union labor at the
construction project. As I am driving 2 miles down this road seeing 30
guys watching 5 or 6 guys actually working I am thinking about who at my
company is going to get laid off today. Unions get no sympathy from me.
and wall street destroyed the US economy. unions had no hand in
that.
Paying a union guy 95% of his salary to sit around and do nothing is
destroying the US economy. The unions negotiating to prevent
productivity improvements in US factories didn't help the economy either.
and paying 5 guys at AIG a billion dollars to drive the stock market
to 50% of its value has a siightly bigger effect on my income than the
guys working on your road do
again...you just can't think logically.
it's the big wall street manager, the unregulated capitalist that's
outlived his usefulness.
If there is no big capitalist there there is no need for the union guy..
Unions can't exist without corporations. But, corporations can exist
without unions.
yeah and kings can exist without a middle class, too. seems you think
feudalism was a great idea.
bush had 8 years to do something besides make the rich richer. he
didn't.
Why do you Democrats keep harping about the past and previous
administrations? Let's concentrate on what the current administration is
doing to destroy the country and how we can stop it.- Hide quoted text -
jesus h. christ on crutches....obama has been president for 60 days.
are you rednecks so illiterate you think eight years of fascism
mismanagement on the part of bush/cheney/exxon can be undone in 60
days? are you truly that irrational?
When you take command of the ship you are responsible for the entire ship.
and if you didn't build the ship you have to pilot it as best you can.
obama inherited a sinking ship.
No. Obama's 'inheritance' was pretty well established in October of
last year. Now go back and see what the market has done since then.
Also, look at what it's done any day following an Obama speech.

Take the blinders off. You're almost as bad as HK.

Obama lied, the economy died.
--

you know, your economic illiteracy makes me weep for our country

i'm a physical scientist. i collect and analyze data for a living.

no scientist...none....would look at data as you propose. none. not a
single one

you do not select data to fit your preconceptions. you completely
ignore the headlong slide caused by bush's economic policies over 8
years and instead focus on a 2% history.

There is a scientist at NASA who, a paid government employee, who would
not let his model, computer program, be reviewed. But, someone got a
hold of the model and found out that this NASA scientist was stuffing
variables and replacing data that did not conform to his desired outcome
of the model.

it's astonishing...remarkable...how deliberately stupid you can
be....you're the stupidity equivalent of a nor'easter.

Wow it took a physical scientist to come up with that one. Do you has
have masters or a doctorate? If you don't you should because your
talents are not being recognized as they should be by your peers.

no wonder the GOP got destroyed. you voted for it.

Lazy people who want to be taken care of by the government are
destroying this country.

You claim to follow economics so please tell us a country where central
planning and tight government control has brought the kind of prosperity
that the USA has seen to this point. All I am looking for is the name of
the country that is socialist or communist that has a higher standard of
living than the USA.

OT Confiscatory taxation
 

On Mar 22, 9:18*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message

...

On Mar 22, 6:21 am, "Eisboch" wrote:



The increased tax revenues? They came primarily from the other liberal
arch-enemy .... business.

and business just got it back. in spades. paid for by the middle
class.
------------------------------------

Who authorized that?


business leaders did. they flew to washington in their private jets,
and said they needed new $6000 umbrella stands because it's what
they're used to.

OT Confiscatory taxation
 

Calif Bill wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message
...
On Mar 21, 3:51 pm, BAR wrote:
wf3h wrote:
On Mar 21, 3:24 pm, BAR wrote:
thunder wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 10:44:54 -0400, BAR wrote:
Are you more concerned with punishing individuals who work at AIG or
are
you more concerned with AIG becoming a healthy private enterprise
again?
I think AIG is done. I think it's on government life support until
they
can safely pull the plug. It was "too big to fail", it failed. Do you
really want to see that monster on the loose again? Break it up, and
sell the parts. Let them start over.
We, the US tax payers could have saved 150 billion dollars if we had
let
uh...no. the first AIG bailout happened under president bush and
treasury secretary paulson. and john mccain was the 3rd greatest
recipient of money from AIG.
You haven't been paying attention have you. I have always said McCain is
an idiot. I seriously doubt that McCain's mother voted for him for
President.

well, then, complaining about people who actually are trying to help
the middle class instead of destroying it as republicans have done for
8 years isn't getting you anywhere is it?

get your facts straight. the fact is, deregulation helped AIG get so
big that, if it failed, it would have destroyed the financial system
of the US.
Blame Congress, they are the ones who wrote the legislation that enabled
AIG to become as big as it did. When you let a company get into two many
different areas of financial products you get these behemoth monsters.

and the reason congress did this is that reagan and milton friedman
manufactured the myth of the 'free' market, unregulated, unhampered by
unions, would strengthen the US economy.

it had exactly the opposite effect. the middle class is being
destroyed. the rich got amazingly richer.

The free market folks, like me, wanted to clear a path for AIG and the
to the nearest bankruptcy court.
and since there is NO free market in the US, your grimm's fairy tale
view of the economy is touching. your mother read you milton friedman
at bedtime?
You want the same bureaucrats in DC who buy $600 hammers and $1000
toilets to run the economy?-

they have been running it for the last 8 years. what planet did you
just come from?

They been running it longer than 8 years. Was under Clinton's watch where
the worst thing happened, and it was Clinton's Sec of treasury that promoted
it. Repeal of Glass-Steagall act. Same Mr. Rubin who put Citigroup in such
peril.

What happened to the greatest monetary mind of our time, Mr Rubin? It
seems that he has literally disappeared form public view since Citigroup
took a nose dive towards insolvency? I guess faith in him, Mr Rubin, was
misplaced.

OT Confiscatory taxation
 

"wf3h" wrote in message
...


there's no question you have your mom read you milton friedman at
bedtime. the problem is, his free market mythology has no relation to
the real world at all
---------------------------------

My mother didn't and still doesn't have a clue who Milton Friedman is.

If you think over 200 years of a free market economy has nothing to do with
the real world, you better check and make sure you are still consuming
oxygen.

Eisboch

OT Confiscatory taxation
 

"wf3h" wrote in message
...
On Mar 22, 9:18 am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message

...

On Mar 22, 6:21 am, "Eisboch" wrote:



The increased tax revenues? They came primarily from the other liberal
arch-enemy .... business.

and business just got it back. in spades. paid for by the middle
class.
------------------------------------

Who authorized that?


business leaders did. they flew to washington in their private jets,
and said they needed new $6000 umbrella stands because it's what
they're used to.

----------------------------------------------

Right. No argument. But, who gave them the money?

Eisboch

OT Confiscatory taxation
 

wf3h wrote:
On Mar 22, 6:53 am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message

...

as the nobel prize winning economist paul krugman pointed it, it's as
if for every year of the last 30, every middle class family sent a
check for $10,000 to the richest 0.1% of americans.

--------------------------------------

Bull****.

"It's as if" is not "as it is".

The rich got richer because the world got richer.

funny the middle class got left out. productivity improved. more
wealth was created. and the wealthiest took it all for themselves.

The guy who used to live next door to me started out as a process
server. No college degree, no special training. Just a go getter type of
guy. His next job was selling commercial real estate. He didn't sit
around bemoaning his lack of education waiting for someone to give him a
job or tell him what to do. He went out and worked for hard and now
lives in a multi-million dollar home and at the age of 47 doesn't have
to work a day for the rest of his life if he doesn't want to.

He started out life in the lower middle class and is not in the top 1%.

Wealth was created, not
redistributed from the middle class. I agree that wealthy people are
typically in a better position to gain more wealth through wealth creation,
but they are not "taking it" from middle class.

Where you people get this goofy idea, I don't know.

you mean other than looking at the evidence? gee. i don't know. the
rich got richer. the middle class did not. how strange of me to think
the rich got richer and the middle class did not...

You don't seem to understand that not all people have the mental and
intellectual capacity to ascend to the top of their field or any field.
I think this is your particular affliction. This is not a bad thing it
just needs to be understood and accepted. How many Michael Jordan's have
there been and will there be? No one has come along to take Albert
Einsteins place.


BTW, Some of the "facts" that are throw around are also simply not true.
In reality, the upper 20 percent (wealth wise) control one third of the
wealth, not the ridiculous numbers perpertuated by some, like "the upper 1%
controls 80% of the nation's wealth".


the INCREASE in the amount of wealth held by the richest 1% over the
past 20 years in the US was incredible. hogs at the trough. now they
want the middle class to make up the difference they just lost in the
bonfire they made of the economy.

Jealousy rearing its ugly head? Bad career choice on your part? Stop
blaming others for your inadequacies and failures.

OT Confiscatory taxation
 

On Mar 22, 9:39*am, BAR wrote:
wf3h wrote:
--

you know, your economic illiteracy makes me weep for our country

i'm *a physical scientist. i collect and analyze data for a living.

no scientist...none....would look at data as you propose. none. not a
single one

you do not select data to fit your preconceptions. you completely
ignore the headlong slide caused by bush's economic policies over 8
years and instead focus on a 2% history.

There is a scientist at NASA who, a paid government employee, who would
not let his model, computer program, be reviewed. But, someone got a
hold of the model and found out that this NASA scientist was stuffing
variables and replacing data that did not conform to his desired outcome
of the model.

IOW he was getting ready for a job as a republican economic analyst.



it's astonishing...remarkable...how deliberately stupid you can
be....you're the stupidity equivalent of a nor'easter.

Wow *it took a physical scientist to come up with that one. Do you has
have masters or a doctorate? If you don't you should because your
talents are not being recognized as they should be by your peers.

IOW you have no response to the idiotic notion that 2% of history
represents all of history....


no wonder the GOP got destroyed. you voted for it.

Lazy people who want to be taken care of by the government are
destroying this country.

IOW the GOP is trying to continue to do to the country what they did
for the last 30 years.

You claim to follow economics so please tell us a country where central
planning and tight government control has brought the kind of prosperity
that the USA has seen to this point. All I am looking for is the name of
the country that is socialist or communist that has a higher standard of
living than the USA.-

you might tell us where a totally free market ever yielded anything
except an oligopoly like we have now where the middle class pays for
everything and the rich simply expect it as their due.

OT Confiscatory taxation
 

"BAR" wrote in message
...

You claim to follow economics so please tell us a country where central
planning and tight government control has brought the kind of prosperity
that the USA has seen to this point. All I am looking for is the name of
the country that is socialist or communist that has a higher standard of
living than the USA.


Maybe you feel you have a high standard of living..what with your two BMWs
and excessive income ( as you boast about).
What about all the American families that have to get by on less than $70K
per year....or even $50K?
I'm sure they don't feel their standard of living is all that great.