OT Confiscatory taxation
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:10:52 -0500, thunder
wrote:


This wasn't about home ownership. It was about using houses as banks.
Sucking out any equity, to pay of credit card bills. Flipping houses
expecting a 10-15% return in a year. It was a bubble, and like all
bubbles, it burst. It wasn't Clinton's fault. It wasn't Bush's fault.
It was *our* fault.

Bull****. I had nothing to do with it.

--Vic

This all started with tax reform legislation passed by Congress in 1986.
Reagan was president and the Democrats had control of congress. Up until
then individuals could deduct things like interest paid on car loans and
credit cards. The tax reform bill eventually (first year it reduced it
to 65%) did away with these deductions, so people started getting 2nd
mortgages or "home equity lines of credit" to purchase big ticket items
because the interest paid was still deductable.

It's ironic that the tax reform bill of 1986, passed despite Reagan's
opposition to it, is now under "revision" by the Obama administration.
They are proposing the equivalent of tax credits if you buy a new car in
an effort to stimulate the economy.

Eisboch


...and they call us a socialist country!
Up here, the average citizen can't deduct interest from your tax return for
interest paid on a home, or any other possession.. unless you are showing
that poperty/vehicle as a business expense.
If you have an office in your home and can show income derived from it's
use..you can deduct the fraction of your expenses based on the percentage of
square footage that office represents. As for the vehicle, you have to
estimate how much of the mileage is business related and claim expenses on
that ratio.

OT Confiscatory taxation
 

Don White wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
...
You claim to follow economics so please tell us a country where central
planning and tight government control has brought the kind of prosperity
that the USA has seen to this point. All I am looking for is the name of
the country that is socialist or communist that has a higher standard of
living than the USA.


Maybe you feel you have a high standard of living..what with your two BMWs
and excessive income ( as you boast about).
What about all the American families that have to get by on less than $70K
per year....or even $50K?
I'm sure they don't feel their standard of living is all that great.




The credo of turds like BAR is simple:

"I've got mine, so **** you."

It's that sort of thinking that is destroying this country.

OT Confiscatory taxation
 

BAR wrote:


Jealousy rearing its ugly head? Bad career choice on your part? Stop
blaming others for your inadequacies and failures.

The best cure for your insensitivity and arrogance...a pink slip from
your employer.


Might give you a bit of humanity.

OT Confiscatory taxation
 

"wf3h" wrote in message
...

you might tell us where a totally free market ever yielded anything
except an oligopoly like we have now where the middle class pays for
everything and the rich simply expect it as their due.

------------------------------

Wow.

It's no wonder this country is going to hell in a hand-basket.

Oh, well.

Eisboch

OT Confiscatory taxation
 

"Don White" wrote in message
...

"BAR" wrote in message
...

You claim to follow economics so please tell us a country where central
planning and tight government control has brought the kind of prosperity
that the USA has seen to this point. All I am looking for is the name of
the country that is socialist or communist that has a higher standard of
living than the USA.


Maybe you feel you have a high standard of living..what with your two BMWs
and excessive income ( as you boast about).
What about all the American families that have to get by on less than $70K
per year....or even $50K?
I'm sure they don't feel their standard of living is all that great.


My standard of living wasn't very good back in 1977 when I left military
service.
But, I had a family and mouths to feed.
I admit, my standard of living has improved significantly. It only took 32
years.

Eisboch

OT Confiscatory taxation
 

"Don White" wrote in message
...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:10:52 -0500, thunder
wrote:


This wasn't about home ownership. It was about using houses as banks.
Sucking out any equity, to pay of credit card bills. Flipping houses
expecting a 10-15% return in a year. It was a bubble, and like all
bubbles, it burst. It wasn't Clinton's fault. It wasn't Bush's fault.
It was *our* fault.

Bull****. I had nothing to do with it.

--Vic

This all started with tax reform legislation passed by Congress in 1986.
Reagan was president and the Democrats had control of congress. Up until
then individuals could deduct things like interest paid on car loans and
credit cards. The tax reform bill eventually (first year it reduced it
to 65%) did away with these deductions, so people started getting 2nd
mortgages or "home equity lines of credit" to purchase big ticket items
because the interest paid was still deductable.

It's ironic that the tax reform bill of 1986, passed despite Reagan's
opposition to it, is now under "revision" by the Obama administration.
They are proposing the equivalent of tax credits if you buy a new car in
an effort to stimulate the economy.

Eisboch


..and they call us a socialist country!
Up here, the average citizen can't deduct interest from your tax return
for interest paid on a home, or any other possession.. unless you are
showing that poperty/vehicle as a business expense.
If you have an office in your home and can show income derived from it's
use..you can deduct the fraction of your expenses based on the percentage
of square footage that office represents. As for the vehicle, you have to
estimate how much of the mileage is business related and claim expenses on
that ratio.


Pretty much the same here except interest paid on a home mortgage (prime
residence only)qualifies for a tax deduction. You can claim interest paid
for a second home mortgage or qualifying boat loan (and maybe an RV .... not
sure) only if you don't have a mortgage on your prime residence that you
are claiming a deduction for.

Car loan and credit card interest deductions were phased out.

Eisboch

OT Confiscatory taxation
 

On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:16:05 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


What I am disputing is that they increased their wealth by "taking" it from
the middle class.
That just isn't the case. It's new wealth. It is not something lost by
the middle class.

You'll totally ignoring that the country and most of it's population
is deeply in debt. Why do you call that "wealth"?
I just don't get why people think that selling this country to
overseas interests by offshoring its manufacturing and scientific
development infrastructure is "creating wealth."
Sure, CEO's execs, and the top 3% of income-"earners" are
wealthy, with actual positive net worth.
Then there is some significant portion of the others who have their
heads above water or are doing well because they have been frugal in
their spending and savings.
But they are also indebted when considering their future tax
obligations to pay off the money to the U.S T-notes China has
bought up to support the destruction of America.
The **** is hitting the fan with climbing unemployment, and widespread
and unprecedented home foreclosures.
You still call this "creating wealth"?
My feeling is that political and business leadership has sold this
country a bill of goods regarding how to value "wealth", and you have
taken it hook, line and sinker.
The "system" that was sold is now broken, because it was always BS,
the main BS term being "wealth creation."
In reality it was "debt creation."
Now the debt is coming due.
General wealth comes from productive work and balancing books with
realistic debits/credits, not financial manipulation and cooking books
to ignore debt. The latter enriches the scam artists, no doubt, but
in the end screws the productive.
Now "standard of living" is a different matter, and we have generally
done well with that. Due in large part to debt and global cheap
labor, and taking the path to where we are.
I don't know how those in financial trouble feel about "standard of
living" and what their numbers are, or their level of dissatisfaction.
But they will be the loudly squeaking wheels in the foreseeable
future.
I expect big changes in the definition of "wealth creation."
And a new look at how 401k money allowed Wall Street to become
corrupt. Still haven't seen my 401k view expressed anywhere else.
Maybe because I'm a genius. Or maybe because I'm just wrong.

--Vic

OT Confiscatory taxation
 

On Mar 22, 9:45 am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message

...

there's no question you have your mom read you milton friedman at
bedtime. the problem is, his free market mythology has no relation to
the real world at all
---------------------------------

My mother didn't and still doesn't have a clue who Milton Friedman is.

If you think over 200 years of a free market economy has nothing to do with
the real world, you better check and make sure you are still consuming
oxygen.


and if you think privatizing profit while socializing risk is a recipe
for success, why not move to mexico. the income distribution there is
about the only country where it's worse than the US.

OT Confiscatory taxation
 

On Mar 22, 9:47*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message

...
On Mar 22, 9:18 am, "Eisboch" wrote:





"wf3h" wrote in message

....

On Mar 22, 6:21 am, "Eisboch" wrote:

The increased tax revenues? They came primarily from the other liberal
arch-enemy .... business.

and business just got it back. in spades. paid for by the middle
class.
------------------------------------

Who authorized that?

business leaders did. they flew to washington in their private jets,
and said they needed new $6000 umbrella stands because it's what
they're used to.

----------------------------------------------

Right. *No argument. * But, who gave them the money?

Eisboch- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

the same people who wrote the rules that have crippled the middle
class....the best politicians money can buy...been that way for 30
years. at this point what are our options?

OT Confiscatory taxation
 

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:16:05 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


What I am disputing is that they increased their wealth by "taking" it
from
the middle class.
That just isn't the case. It's new wealth. It is not something lost by
the middle class.

You'll totally ignoring that the country and most of it's population
is deeply in debt. Why do you call that "wealth"?
I just don't get why people think that selling this country to
overseas interests by offshoring its manufacturing and scientific
development infrastructure is "creating wealth."
Sure, CEO's execs, and the top 3% of income-"earners" are
wealthy, with actual positive net worth.
Then there is some significant portion of the others who have their
heads above water or are doing well because they have been frugal in
their spending and savings.
But they are also indebted when considering their future tax
obligations to pay off the money to the U.S T-notes China has
bought up to support the destruction of America.
The **** is hitting the fan with climbing unemployment, and widespread
and unprecedented home foreclosures.
You still call this "creating wealth"?
My feeling is that political and business leadership has sold this
country a bill of goods regarding how to value "wealth", and you have
taken it hook, line and sinker.
The "system" that was sold is now broken, because it was always BS,
the main BS term being "wealth creation."
In reality it was "debt creation."
Now the debt is coming due.
General wealth comes from productive work and balancing books with
realistic debits/credits, not financial manipulation and cooking books
to ignore debt. The latter enriches the scam artists, no doubt, but
in the end screws the productive.
Now "standard of living" is a different matter, and we have generally
done well with that. Due in large part to debt and global cheap
labor, and taking the path to where we are.
I don't know how those in financial trouble feel about "standard of
living" and what their numbers are, or their level of dissatisfaction.
But they will be the loudly squeaking wheels in the foreseeable
future.
I expect big changes in the definition of "wealth creation."
And a new look at how 401k money allowed Wall Street to become
corrupt. Still haven't seen my 401k view expressed anywhere else.
Maybe because I'm a genius. Or maybe because I'm just wrong.

--Vic


I don't disagree with anything you said except it has nothing to do with the
subject, ie. the "rich" getting richer by taking from the middle class.

The goal of accumulating personal wealth to whatever degree is not bad as
long as it's done legally and without being at the expense of others. This
country was founded on the concept of free markets, competition and minimal
government intervention. The Constitution is written around these concepts.
It worked well for many years producing the strongest economic nation on
earth with a relatively good standard of living for most. Ellis Island and
other immigration locations have records of millions of people who left
their homelands to pursue opportunities here. Still going on.

What screws it up is greed in big business (often in response to stockholder
expectations, BTW) and intervention by an increasingly corrupt government,
residing mainly in Congress. There's a role for government to play ....
making sure the playing field is fair by regulations and/or actions to
enforce laws. But when the government officials are as greedy as the big
businesses, all bets are off.

Some people just don't like the truth. The problems we have now originated
in lending practices that should never have been put in place. Government
did that. Banks and Wall Street tried to take advantage of it.

Eisboch