wrote:
On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 10:20:32 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Mar 3, 1:10 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:

Friends Boston Whaler 13' after it flipped and was abandoned during the
rescue was found about 10 miles down current. Even with a big boat, they
could not right the boat and towed it back slowly with it upside down.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
If you only went out when conditions were perfectly safe, you'd never
go out. Harry thinks that if anyone ever gets in any situation ever,
it's instantly stupidity that got them there. Maybe that's why he puts
so few hours on his boat. He's got no sense of adventure, and when
anyone does anything fun with their children instead of keeping them
locked in a hermetically sealed room, he deems them wreckless and
irresponsible. WAFA, in short.

Loogy is afraid to go to the airport when Harrry is there. SCARY!!!


What's funny is that Loogy already has convinced anyone who matters that
he is an idiot, and he's so stupid he thinks he has to keep "reselling"
his stupidity to us.

No, I would not go out in the ocean in really bad weather, or if a
weather report indicated a heavy wind or some other sort of really bad
weather was going to be coming through while I planned to be out. But,
then, I'm not an idiot.

Oh...Loogy boats on a little inland lake. Unlikely there are many
boating days with 14-16' waves there.

I will lay odds that they were high on something too.


--
Dymphna
Message Origin: TRAVEL.com

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Mar 3, 12:19 pm, Frogwatch wrote:
On Mar 3, 12:00 pm, HK wrote:



Frogwatch wrote:

This accident with the NFL players off Clearwater where the boat
overturned is tragic. What went wrong? The weather forecast was poor
when they left shore, so what were they thinking? Was it simply a
matter of being too macho to exercise common sense?
Next, once a boat turns upside down, is there any way to right them?
Once righted, would a motor start (assume a 2 cycle).
I'd like to know how the boat was anchored, was it from the stern,
classical mistake resulting in this.
Going offshore with no EPIRB used to be acceptable but today?

- - -

What went wrong?

From the reports I heard yesterday, the guys went 50 miles offshore in
a 21' boat and were flipped by 14' to 16' waves.

What were they thinking? That they were invulernable.

They either were too macho or unaware of how quickly weather can change
on the Gulf or both *or* they were so ignorant of the dangers of small
boating, they thought their craft could handle anything they
encountered.

I doubt there is a way for guys in the water to flip right-side-up a
boat like that. Might be able to turn back over an open boat, though.

Would the motor start? Doubtful.

I'm not sure the way the boat was anchored was relevant, since it
apparently was rolled over. Had it been anchored from the bow, it
probably would have been swamped and then it would have flipped.

Back in my Jax days, I would go out 20 miles to some manmade reefs, but
only after checking the weather and listening to the weather channel
and
only with a pack of other boats. 18-footer. No ePIRB back then.

Next, finding yourself in such a situation, what to do? Should you
simply let anchor #1 go knowing you have #2? Obviously start the
motor before trying to haul in the anchor. I assume strong wind here
was also a major factor in how the boat behaved (data buoy here said
sustained 36 kt with gusts to 42).
Is the boat better off under power in those conditions or with a
drogue deployed from bow? I assume under power.

No life jackets until they flipped? Under those conditions? Were
they trying to be candidates for the Darwin Award? Really now,
inflatable jackets are comfy, you should always wear them (ok, most of
the time).

I would have to agree, Darwin suicide award is their best excuse. Not just
for not wearing them, but going out that far in such a small boat. Really
stupid.

Canuck57 wrote:
"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Mar 3, 12:19 pm, Frogwatch wrote:
On Mar 3, 12:00 pm, HK wrote:



Frogwatch wrote:
This accident with the NFL players off Clearwater where the boat
overturned is tragic. What went wrong? The weather forecast was poor
when they left shore, so what were they thinking? Was it simply a
matter of being too macho to exercise common sense?
Next, once a boat turns upside down, is there any way to right them?
Once righted, would a motor start (assume a 2 cycle).
I'd like to know how the boat was anchored, was it from the stern,
classical mistake resulting in this.
Going offshore with no EPIRB used to be acceptable but today?
- - -
What went wrong?
From the reports I heard yesterday, the guys went 50 miles offshore in
a 21' boat and were flipped by 14' to 16' waves.
What were they thinking? That they were invulernable.
They either were too macho or unaware of how quickly weather can change
on the Gulf or both *or* they were so ignorant of the dangers of small
boating, they thought their craft could handle anything they
encountered.
I doubt there is a way for guys in the water to flip right-side-up a
boat like that. Might be able to turn back over an open boat, though.
Would the motor start? Doubtful.
I'm not sure the way the boat was anchored was relevant, since it
apparently was rolled over. Had it been anchored from the bow, it
probably would have been swamped and then it would have flipped.
Back in my Jax days, I would go out 20 miles to some manmade reefs, but
only after checking the weather and listening to the weather channel
and
only with a pack of other boats. 18-footer. No ePIRB back then.
Next, finding yourself in such a situation, what to do? Should you
simply let anchor #1 go knowing you have #2? Obviously start the
motor before trying to haul in the anchor. I assume strong wind here
was also a major factor in how the boat behaved (data buoy here said
sustained 36 kt with gusts to 42).
Is the boat better off under power in those conditions or with a
drogue deployed from bow? I assume under power.
No life jackets until they flipped? Under those conditions? Were
they trying to be candidates for the Darwin Award? Really now,
inflatable jackets are comfy, you should always wear them (ok, most of
the time).

I would have to agree, Darwin suicide award is their best excuse. Not just
for not wearing them, but going out that far in such a small boat. Really
stupid.



I was very surprised at the size of the waves, and here is a graph and
weather report on Saturdays weather 50 miles off of Tampa. The waves
built up VERY fast. According to the survivor found, everyone was
wearing a life vest.
http://www.accuweather.com/regional-...34&partner=rss

On Mar 3, 1:33*pm, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 10:20:32 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Mar 3, 1:10 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:

Friends Boston Whaler 13' after it flipped and was abandoned during the
rescue was found about 10 miles down current. *Even with a big boat, they
could not right the boat and towed it back slowly with it upside down..- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
If you only went out when conditions were perfectly safe, you'd never
go out. Harry thinks that if anyone ever gets in any situation ever,
it's instantly stupidity that got them there. Maybe that's why he puts
so few hours on his boat. He's got no sense of adventure, and when
anyone does anything fun with their children instead of keeping them
locked in a hermetically sealed room, he deems them wreckless and
irresponsible. WAFA, in short.

Loogy is afraid to go to the airport when Harrry is there. SCARY!!!

What's funny is that Loogy already has convinced anyone who matters that
he is an idiot, and he's so stupid he thinks he has to keep "reselling"
his stupidity to us.

No, I would not go out in the ocean in really bad weather, or if a
weather report indicated a heavy wind or some other sort of really bad
weather was going to be coming through while I planned to be out. But,
then, I'm not an idiot.

Oh...Loogy boats on a little inland lake. Unlikely there are many
boating days with 14-16' waves there.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Harry, I'll bet I've got many, many many more hours on Florida's Gulf
than you. Care to bet? Hell, I'll bet I've got years more experience
in Florida's gulf waters than you do in Florida's Atlantic waters.
Care to bet?

"nameless" wrote in message
...
Frogwatch wrote:
On Mar 3, 12:00 pm, HK wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:

This accident with the NFL players off Clearwater where the boat
overturned is tragic. What went wrong? The weather forecast was poor
when they left shore, so what were they thinking? Was it simply a
matter of being too macho to exercise common sense?
Next, once a boat turns upside down, is there any way to right them?
Once righted, would a motor start (assume a 2 cycle).
I'd like to know how the boat was anchored, was it from the stern,
classical mistake resulting in this.
Going offshore with no EPIRB used to be acceptable but today?

- - -

What went wrong?

From the reports I heard yesterday, the guys went 50 miles offshore in
a 21' boat and were flipped by 14' to 16' waves.

What were they thinking? That they were invulernable.

They either were too macho or unaware of how quickly weather can change
on the Gulf or both *or* they were so ignorant of the dangers of small
boating, they thought their craft could handle anything they
encountered.

I doubt there is a way for guys in the water to flip right-side-up a
boat like that. Might be able to turn back over an open boat, though.

Would the motor start? Doubtful.

I'm not sure the way the boat was anchored was relevant, since it
apparently was rolled over. Had it been anchored from the bow, it
probably would have been swamped and then it would have flipped.

Back in my Jax days, I would go out 20 miles to some manmade reefs, but
only after checking the weather and listening to the weather channel and
only with a pack of other boats. 18-footer. No ePIRB back then.

Waves that size in the Gulf are unusual although with the 33 kt wind
from the NW there is a lot of room for them to build.
My question about anchoring is because I have read several accounts of
boats anchored by the stern, a wave comes over the cut-away transom
and thats the end.

I have been out in 35+ winds in the Gulf, around 8 miles off shore, while
the waves looked 12', I think they were probably closer to 6'.

I can't imagine 14'-16' in the gulf. Who projected the wave height?

I have been out in the Gulf of Mexico. Google West Cameron 587 location,
and that is as far as I was out there. Or Eugene Island 312. We were
trying to get to a platform in a large crewboat during a hurricane when the
captain had the brainstorm that once we got there, there would be no way to
unload us. So, we went back to Freeport, TX, and spent three days in a
flooded motel.

I spent six years in the Gulf of Mexico. You can believe whatever you like.
I believe what I saw. Those men were simply inexperienced seamen who set
out on a small craft and ran into bad weather. It's quite simple. There
were several mistakes that any seasoned seaman would not have made. First
is going out. Second, not taking an EPIRB. They probably add on after
that, compounding one another.

I've spent time on large boats where there were straps to tie one's self
into your bunk so you didn't roll out. Dangerous stuff in a big boat.
Sometimes even deadly on one of those. Smaller craft are worse.

My sympathies to the families. It is sad to lose someone to poor judgement.

Steve

"Dymphna" wrote in message
news

I will lay odds that they were high on something too.


--
Dymphna
Message Origin: TRAVEL.com

If they were ex-military, are you going to the funeral and protest, too?

Sheesh, man. I hope you get measured with the yardstick you measure others
with.

Steve

On Mar 3, 12:33*pm, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 10:20:32 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Mar 3, 1:10 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:

Friends Boston Whaler 13' after it flipped and was abandoned during the
rescue was found about 10 miles down current. *Even with a big boat, they
could not right the boat and towed it back slowly with it upside down..- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
If you only went out when conditions were perfectly safe, you'd never
go out. Harry thinks that if anyone ever gets in any situation ever,
it's instantly stupidity that got them there. Maybe that's why he puts
so few hours on his boat. He's got no sense of adventure, and when
anyone does anything fun with their children instead of keeping them
locked in a hermetically sealed room, he deems them wreckless and
irresponsible. WAFA, in short.

Loogy is afraid to go to the airport when Harrry is there. SCARY!!!

What's funny is that Loogy already has convinced anyone who matters that
he is an idiot, and he's so stupid he thinks he has to keep "reselling"
his stupidity to us.

No, I would not go out in the ocean in really bad weather, or if a
weather report indicated a heavy wind or some other sort of really bad
weather was going to be coming through while I planned to be out. But,
then, I'm not an idiot.

Oh...Loogy boats on a little inland lake. Unlikely there are many
boating days with 14-16' waves there.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What was the weather like when you rounded the horn ... twice?

wrote:
On Mar 3, 1:33 pm, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 10:20:32 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Mar 3, 1:10 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
Friends Boston Whaler 13' after it flipped and was abandoned during the
rescue was found about 10 miles down current. Even with a big boat, they
could not right the boat and towed it back slowly with it upside down..- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If you only went out when conditions were perfectly safe, you'd never
go out. Harry thinks that if anyone ever gets in any situation ever,
it's instantly stupidity that got them there. Maybe that's why he puts
so few hours on his boat. He's got no sense of adventure, and when
anyone does anything fun with their children instead of keeping them
locked in a hermetically sealed room, he deems them wreckless and
irresponsible. WAFA, in short.
Loogy is afraid to go to the airport when Harrry is there. SCARY!!!
What's funny is that Loogy already has convinced anyone who matters that
he is an idiot, and he's so stupid he thinks he has to keep "reselling"
his stupidity to us.

No, I would not go out in the ocean in really bad weather, or if a
weather report indicated a heavy wind or some other sort of really bad
weather was going to be coming through while I planned to be out. But,
then, I'm not an idiot.

Oh...Loogy boats on a little inland lake. Unlikely there are many
boating days with 14-16' waves there.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Harry, I'll bet I've got many, many many more hours on Florida's Gulf
than you. Care to bet? Hell, I'll bet I've got years more experience
in Florida's gulf waters than you do in Florida's Atlantic waters.
Care to bet?

crickets

You know his pathetic MO by now. Don't waste your time with the
narcissistic asshole.

"GC Boater" wrote in message
...
On Mar 3, 12:33 pm, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 10:20:32 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Mar 3, 1:10 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:

Friends Boston Whaler 13' after it flipped and was abandoned during
the
rescue was found about 10 miles down current. Even with a big boat,
they
could not right the boat and towed it back slowly with it upside
down.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
If you only went out when conditions were perfectly safe, you'd never
go out. Harry thinks that if anyone ever gets in any situation ever,
it's instantly stupidity that got them there. Maybe that's why he puts
so few hours on his boat. He's got no sense of adventure, and when
anyone does anything fun with their children instead of keeping them
locked in a hermetically sealed room, he deems them wreckless and
irresponsible. WAFA, in short.

Loogy is afraid to go to the airport when Harrry is there. SCARY!!!

What's funny is that Loogy already has convinced anyone who matters that
he is an idiot, and he's so stupid he thinks he has to keep "reselling"
his stupidity to us.

No, I would not go out in the ocean in really bad weather, or if a
weather report indicated a heavy wind or some other sort of really bad
weather was going to be coming through while I planned to be out. But,
then, I'm not an idiot.

Oh...Loogy boats on a little inland lake. Unlikely there are many
boating days with 14-16' waves there.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What was the weather like when you rounded the horn ... twice?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

giggle