Payrolls Post Biggest Annual Decline Since 1945
 

"hk" wrote in message
m...
Eisboch wrote:

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
m...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"CalifBill" wrote in message
...


I do not have the answer,
but it appears our elected leaders do not either.


They don't, economists don't, nobody knows. What is being done, in the
words of Andrea Mitchell, is throwing anything and everything against
the wall and see if anything sticks.

Eisboch

The scary part is I think the recession will get much worse before
turning around. And not one of the elected are asking Obama and his
team what is the basis for his plan.


Some of Obama's comments lately are not exactly reassuring to the public.
He's trying to put pressure on Congress to make sure they will approve
his massive stimulus spending, but he's doing it by scaring the bejeezes
out of people. He recently made a statement to the affect that if his
plan is not approved, it may be too late to save the US. Not sure what
he means by that, but they sure aren't the words of a true Leader.

Eisboch

Obama is correct.

No, I don't think he's correct at all. We are in for some tough times over
the next 2-3 years, but we will recover nicely. As bad as it is, it has
been worse before. Don't your remember the late Carter years, 20% interest
rates, inflation and 11 percent unemployment?

We are being saturated with information overload from the media, cable,
Internet, blogs, editorials, print and electronic, etc., all trying to get
audience and notice by focusing on the *bad* news. Technology has
overwhelmed rational thinking. Once people become jaded and tired of
listening to how the world's going to end tomorrow, the recovery will begin.

Personally, I think it's just about time to think about buying some real
estate.

But, the guy that was so full of "hope" a few months ago certainly has
changed his tune and, I'll tell you, he's not getting high grades for
leadership. Unlike great leaders in times of trouble like Roosevelt and
Churchill who met privately with their advisors, generated a plan and then
optimistically announced it with conviction and strength, Obama is running
around publically soliciting any and all ideas and basically scaring the
hell out of the people who elected him because of his perceived "leadership"
capabilities.

This is serious business and it's not time for community organizing. It's
time for strong leadership.

Eisboch

Payrolls Post Biggest Annual Decline Since 1945
 

BAR wrote:
hk wrote:
BAR wrote:
hk wrote:
Eisboch wrote:

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
m...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"CalifBill" wrote in message
...


I do not have the answer,
but it appears our elected leaders do not either.


They don't, economists don't, nobody knows. What is being done,
in the words of Andrea Mitchell, is throwing anything and
everything against the wall and see if anything sticks.

Eisboch

The scary part is I think the recession will get much worse before
turning around. And not one of the elected are asking Obama and
his team what is the basis for his plan.


Some of Obama's comments lately are not exactly reassuring to the
public. He's trying to put pressure on Congress to make sure they
will approve his massive stimulus spending, but he's doing it by
scaring the bejeezes out of people. He recently made a statement
to the affect that if his plan is not approved, it may be too late
to save the US. Not sure what he means by that, but they sure
aren't the words of a true Leader.

Eisboch

Obama is correct.

Obama is wrong. We don't need more government intervention in business.


Prove it.

The GAO. If you want spur economic growth you need to cut taxes and
encourage business to hire and spend without the threat of increased
taxes. The people need to know that they will be able to spend their own
money the way they want to spend it rather than having it confiscated
and given, "redistributed", to those who won't get off their lazy asses
and work for themselves.

Obama with his misguided idea that he is going to "save" jobs and create
jobs by government spending is comical. FDR tried it before and it
failed miserable. Private industry creates jobs and the most jobs are
created by small businesses. Reducing regulation and taxes will ensure
the greatest growth of jobs. And the repeal of that ridiculous Sarbanes
Oxley legislation is the first thing that needs to happen.

Right now everyone has their hand out waiting for big daddy government
to give them something. Doesn't anyone have any self respect and pride
anymore.


Yeah, I know the pablum. No proof? And you want more deregulation?

Payrolls Post Biggest Annual Decline Since 1945
 

On Jan 10, 5:29*pm, hk wrote:
BAR wrote:
hk wrote:
Eisboch wrote:

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
news:46mdnS5M9vwjmPTUnZ2dnUVZ_ovinZ2d@earthlink .com...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
news:ot6dnalq1NX7wfXUnZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d@giganews .com...

"CalifBill" wrote in message
...

*I do not have the answer,
but it appears our elected leaders do not either.

They don't, economists don't, nobody knows. *What is being done, in
the words of Andrea Mitchell, is throwing anything and everything
against the wall and see if anything sticks.

Eisboch

The scary part is I think the recession will get much worse before
turning around. *And not one of the elected are asking Obama and his
team what is the basis for his plan.

Some of Obama's comments lately are not exactly reassuring to the
public. He's trying to put pressure on Congress to make sure they
will approve his massive stimulus spending, but he's doing it by
scaring the bejeezes out of people. * He recently made a statement to
the affect that if his plan is not approved, it may be too late to
save the US. * Not sure what he means by that, but they sure aren't
the words of a true Leader.

Eisboch

Obama is correct.

Obama is wrong. We don't need more government intervention in business.

Prove it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The proof will be four years from now when he and all of his crim
buddies get run out of town on a rail... He is no leader, every time
he talks, the stock market goes down...

Payrolls Post Biggest Annual Decline Since 1945
 

Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
hk wrote:
BAR wrote:
hk wrote:
Eisboch wrote:

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
m...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"CalifBill" wrote in message
...


I do not have the answer,
but it appears our elected leaders do not either.


They don't, economists don't, nobody knows. What is being done,
in the words of Andrea Mitchell, is throwing anything and
everything against the wall and see if anything sticks.

Eisboch

The scary part is I think the recession will get much worse
before turning around. And not one of the elected are asking
Obama and his team what is the basis for his plan.


Some of Obama's comments lately are not exactly reassuring to the
public. He's trying to put pressure on Congress to make sure they
will approve his massive stimulus spending, but he's doing it by
scaring the bejeezes out of people. He recently made a statement
to the affect that if his plan is not approved, it may be too late
to save the US. Not sure what he means by that, but they sure
aren't the words of a true Leader.

Eisboch

Obama is correct.

Obama is wrong. We don't need more government intervention in business.


Prove it.

The GAO. If you want spur economic growth you need to cut taxes and
encourage business to hire and spend without the threat of increased
taxes. The people need to know that they will be able to spend their
own money the way they want to spend it rather than having it
confiscated and given, "redistributed", to those who won't get off
their lazy asses and work for themselves.

Obama with his misguided idea that he is going to "save" jobs and
create jobs by government spending is comical. FDR tried it before and
it failed miserable. Private industry creates jobs and the most jobs
are created by small businesses. Reducing regulation and taxes will
ensure the greatest growth of jobs. And the repeal of that ridiculous
Sarbanes Oxley legislation is the first thing that needs to happen.

Right now everyone has their hand out waiting for big daddy government
to give them something. Doesn't anyone have any self respect and pride
anymore.


Yeah, I know the pablum. No proof? And you want more deregulation?

Today's small business has to spend too much time and money meeting
government regulations at the local, state and federal level that doen't
have time to actually run their business.

Payrolls Post Biggest Annual Decline Since 1945
 

On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 17:03:33 -0500, BAR wrote:


I am willing to wait it out. We don't need to go deeper into debt. It is
going to be a little bit painful for some but, that's life.

Now, you're concerned about debt? Where was all that fiscal conservatism
when the last 3 Republican administrations were piling on the debt?

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

Payrolls Post Biggest Annual Decline Since 1945
 

On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 17:47:12 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:



No, I don't think he's correct at all. We are in for some tough times over
the next 2-3 years, but we will recover nicely. As bad as it is, it has
been worse before. Don't your remember the late Carter years, 20% interest
rates, inflation and 11 percent unemployment?

I was ok then. 8% mortgage.
What I remember most is getting laid off my first IT job in 1982.
Along with plenty of others.
Ronald Reagan.
The highest unemployment rate since the great depression.
That's what I remember.
You know what say about when your neighbor gets laid off....

--Vic

Payrolls Post Biggest Annual Decline Since 1945
 

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 18:38:14 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Vic Smith" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 17:47:12 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:



No, I don't think he's correct at all. We are in for some tough times
over
the next 2-3 years, but we will recover nicely. As bad as it is, it has
been worse before. Don't your remember the late Carter years, 20%
interest
rates, inflation and 11 percent unemployment?

I was ok then. 8% mortgage.
What I remember most is getting laid off my first IT job in 1982.
Along with plenty of others.
Ronald Reagan.
The highest unemployment rate since the great depression.
That's what I remember.
You know what say about when your neighbor gets laid off....

--Vic

Why is it that everyone remembers who was the president during a recession
but forget how we got there?

Because until you get hurt, it doesn't matter.
Like I said about if a neighbor loses his job, it's a recession, if
you lose yours it's a depression.
Same reason you always find something you lost in the last place you
looked for it. Huh? I take that back
Simply, it's Captain of the Ship. He should always take the heat.
Do you remember how it came to be that interest rates got so high
under Carter? Do you care?
Same with the Iran hostages. Carter's job to prevent it of fix it.
He didn't. That's why I voted for Reagan - once.
Reagan got no better consideration than I gave Carter.
He presided over the highest unemployment rate since the great
depression. I don't care how we got there.
What I remember is struggling to keep my kids warm while he and Nancy
danced in grand DC ballrooms.
And I'll never forget GWB biting his lips while a chunk of Manhattan
came down in flames. That shouldn't have happened.
That's how it works with me.
Besides, blaming others than those in charge is a feel good cop out
and usually just political bull****.
I didn't cut that Pueblo skipper any slack either for allowing the
capture of his ship.
When BO is inaugurated, he has the helm.
I won't cut him any slack either.
But, I admit, he won't care. Carter and Reagan didn't listen to me
either.

--Vic

That's all fine and good and certainly simplifies things. But it doesn't
help when trying to learn from history and past mistakes when trying to
avoid the same. I really don't think the analogy of a ship's captain's
actions and responsibility in a single incident (as romantic and traditional
as it is) compares with long term policies of a POTUS, the influence of
which extend well beyond their time in office. Nobody "finishes" the job.

Reagan inherited high inflation, a **** poor economy and a recession. Say
what you will, but he led us out of it through some smart maneuvering and
enabling of business. The old "he spent us into debt" seems moot
now-a-days.

The only thing I remember about Carter, nice guy that he is and all, was
that he also inherited a ****-poor economy from Ford. It turns out his
policies to invigorate the economy led to even higher inflation and interest
rates which eventually led to the "Reagan" Recession. I remember it well
because I left the Navy in 1977 and got a rude awakening over the following
few years about the cost of living and the "security" of civilian jobs.

Eisboch

Payrolls Post Biggest Annual Decline Since 1945
 

wrote in message
t...
On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 17:03:33 -0500, BAR wrote:


I am willing to wait it out. We don't need to go deeper into debt. It is
going to be a little bit painful for some but, that's life.

Now, you're concerned about debt? Where was all that fiscal conservatism
when the last 3 Republican administrations were piling on the debt?

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

The last 8 year Democrat administration piled on spending also. Only
difference is there was the Dot.com boom, that allowed the administration to
overspend without excess borrowing. Same reason a Democrat controlled Calif
is in deep financial poop. During the Dot.com boom, they expanded spending,
permanent spending programs, with not permanent money.

Payrolls Post Biggest Annual Decline Since 1945
 

Eisboch wrote:

"hk" wrote in message
m...
Eisboch wrote:

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
m...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"CalifBill" wrote in message
...


I do not have the answer,
but it appears our elected leaders do not either.


They don't, economists don't, nobody knows. What is being done, in
the words of Andrea Mitchell, is throwing anything and everything
against the wall and see if anything sticks.

Eisboch

The scary part is I think the recession will get much worse before
turning around. And not one of the elected are asking Obama and his
team what is the basis for his plan.


Some of Obama's comments lately are not exactly reassuring to the
public. He's trying to put pressure on Congress to make sure they
will approve his massive stimulus spending, but he's doing it by
scaring the bejeezes out of people. He recently made a statement to
the affect that if his plan is not approved, it may be too late to
save the US. Not sure what he means by that, but they sure aren't
the words of a true Leader.

Eisboch

Obama is correct.

No, I don't think he's correct at all. We are in for some tough times
over the next 2-3 years, but we will recover nicely. As bad as it is,
it has been worse before. Don't your remember the late Carter years,
20% interest rates, inflation and 11 percent unemployment?

We are being saturated with information overload from the media, cable,
Internet, blogs, editorials, print and electronic, etc., all trying to
get audience and notice by focusing on the *bad* news. Technology has
overwhelmed rational thinking. Once people become jaded and tired of
listening to how the world's going to end tomorrow, the recovery will
begin.

Personally, I think it's just about time to think about buying some real
estate.

But, the guy that was so full of "hope" a few months ago certainly has
changed his tune and, I'll tell you, he's not getting high grades for
leadership. Unlike great leaders in times of trouble like Roosevelt and
Churchill who met privately with their advisors, generated a plan and
then optimistically announced it with conviction and strength, Obama is
running around publically soliciting any and all ideas and basically
scaring the hell out of the people who elected him because of his
perceived "leadership" capabilities.

This is serious business and it's not time for community organizing.
It's time for strong leadership.

Eisboch





Community organizing is leadership.

Payrolls Post Biggest Annual Decline Since 1945
 

"hk" wrote in message
m...




Community organizing is leadership.

Sorry Harry. Community organizing is management.
Leadership is very different.

Eisboch