On Dec 25, 12:50*pm, Cliff wrote:
*http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/119516
* "One day after granting a pardon to Brooklyn developer Isaac Toussie,
President Bush revoked it, a step experts say is certainly rare and possibly
unprecedented."
[
* Toussie, one of 19 people Bush pardoned on Tuesday, pleaded guilty in 2003 to
defrauding the federal government and Suffolk County in mortgage and
price-inflation schemes. He and his father Robert, among the largest landowners
on Long Island, are accused of selling shoddy homes at inflated prices, largely
to minorities, in an ongoing class-action lawsuit involving 400 families.

Yesterday, the White House said the President is revoking Toussie's pardon, at
least in part because of news reports revealing that his father gave over
$28,000 to the Republican National Committee just months before the pardon
petition.

The White House counsel recommended the pardon to the President.
]

* Will they be giving back the $28,000?

They should buy O'bamas senate seat.

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 12:48:21 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

On Dec 25, 6:45 pm, Jeff Mc wrote:
D Murphy wrote:
Jeff Mc wrote in
t:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 10:17:39 -0800, rigger wrote:

On Dec 25, 9:50 am, Cliff wrote:
http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/119516
"One day after granting a pardon to Brooklyn developer Isaac
Toussie,
President Bush revoked it, a step experts say is certainly rare and
possibly unprecedented."
[
Toussie, one of 19 people Bush pardoned on Tuesday, pleaded
guilty in 2003 to
defrauding the federal government and Suffolk County in mortgage
and price-inflation schemes. He and his father Robert, among the
largest landowners on Long Island, are accused of selling shoddy
homes at inflated prices, largely to minorities, in an ongoing
class-action lawsuit involving 400 families.

Yesterday, the White House said the President is revoking Toussie's
pardon, at least in part because of news reports revealing that his
father gave over $28,000 to the Republican National Committee just
months before the pardon petition.

The White House counsel recommended the pardon to the President. ]

Will they be giving back the $28,000?

And HOW can they UNDO a pardon?
According to Bush/Cheney the Executive has absolute power.

If he pardon's SureShot, himself, Rumsfeld & crew can Obama now
undo it?
Absolute power would indeed grant that power to Obama.

--
Cliff
Maybe their check bounced???
Ha!

dennis
in nca
I think Cliff hit the nail on the head. Bush, the stupid ****, gave
up his absolute right to a self-imposed pardon with this cover up.
Problem is that Osama won't use the power.

He probably just hadn't signed or filed the paperwork yet. While a
decision to pardon is reversible, an actual pardon is not. Otherwise
it would merely be a parole.

Presidential pardons can and have been reversed.

Really? That's news me. got a cite hardy? I'd like to learn more.

Jeff

Lets compare the ethics of two presidential pardons. Rich was
pardoned by Clinton after he cheated the USA out of 250 million in
taxes. Later, Rich made campaign contributions to Hillary.
Bush pardons this guy and then finds he contributed $25,000 to the RNC
and rescinds the pardon.
Who is more ethical?
Are Dems even capable of reasoning?


Point, set and match.

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 17:14:11 -0500, Boater
wrote:

Lets compare the ethics of two presidential pardons. Rich was
pardoned by Clinton after he cheated the USA out of 250 million in
taxes. Later, Rich made campaign contributions to Hillary.
Bush pardons this guy and then finds he contributed $25,000 to the RNC
and rescinds the pardon.
Who is more ethical?
Are Dems even capable of reasoning?


WMDs, Katrina aftermath, destruction of the economy, denial of science,
Terry Schiavo.

No reasoning whatsoever, just bull****, on the Democrat side

Thanks Bloater for the admission

Gunner

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 19:36:52 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 12:48:21 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

On Dec 25, 6:45 pm, Jeff Mc wrote:
D Murphy wrote:
Jeff Mc wrote in
t:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 10:17:39 -0800, rigger wrote:

On Dec 25, 9:50 am, Cliff wrote:
http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/119516
"One day after granting a pardon to Brooklyn developer Isaac
Toussie,
President Bush revoked it, a step experts say is certainly rare
and possibly unprecedented."
[
Toussie, one of 19 people Bush pardoned on Tuesday, pleaded
guilty in 2003 to
defrauding the federal government and Suffolk County in mortgage
and price-inflation schemes. He and his father Robert, among the
largest landowners on Long Island, are accused of selling shoddy
homes at inflated prices, largely to minorities, in an ongoing
class-action lawsuit involving 400 families.

Yesterday, the White House said the President is revoking
Toussie's pardon, at least in part because of news reports
revealing that his father gave over $28,000 to the Republican
National Committee just months before the pardon petition.

The White House counsel recommended the pardon to the President.
]

Will they be giving back the $28,000?

And HOW can they UNDO a pardon?
According to Bush/Cheney the Executive has absolute power.

If he pardon's SureShot, himself, Rumsfeld & crew can Obama
now undo it?
Absolute power would indeed grant that power to Obama.

--
Cliff
Maybe their check bounced???
Ha!

dennis
in nca
I think Cliff hit the nail on the head. Bush, the stupid ****,
gave up his absolute right to a self-imposed pardon with this
cover up. Problem is that Osama won't use the power.

He probably just hadn't signed or filed the paperwork yet. While a
decision to pardon is reversible, an actual pardon is not.
Otherwise it would merely be a parole.

Presidential pardons can and have been reversed.

Really? That's news me. got a cite hardy? I'd like to learn more.

Jeff

Lets compare the ethics of two presidential pardons. Rich was pardoned
by Clinton after he cheated the USA out of 250 million in taxes. Later,
Rich made campaign contributions to Hillary. Bush pardons this guy and
then finds he contributed $25,000 to the RNC and rescinds the pardon.
Who is more ethical?
Are Dems even capable of reasoning?


Point, set and match.

Yeah, the Republicans are cheaper to bribe than Democrats.

Nobody won and society loses in either case.

--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
26 Days More of George Walker Bush Plundering the Economy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 25 Dec 2008 22:07:21 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
:

On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 12:33:43 -0600, Jeff Mc
wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 10:17:39 -0800, rigger wrote:

On Dec 25, 9:50 am, Cliff wrote:
http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/119516
"One day after granting a pardon to Brooklyn developer Isaac
Toussie,
President Bush revoked it, a step experts say is certainly rare
and possibly unprecedented."
[
Toussie, one of 19 people Bush pardoned on Tuesday, pleaded
guilty in 2003 to
defrauding the federal government and Suffolk County in mortgage
and price-inflation schemes. He and his father Robert, among the
largest landowners on Long Island, are accused of selling shoddy
homes at inflated prices, largely to minorities, in an ongoing
class-action lawsuit involving 400 families.

Yesterday, the White House said the President is revoking
Toussie's pardon, at least in part because of news reports
revealing that his father gave over $28,000 to the Republican
National Committee just months before the pardon petition.

The White House counsel recommended the pardon to the President. ]

Will they be giving back the $28,000?

And HOW can they UNDO a pardon?

According to Bush/Cheney the Executive has absolute power.

If he pardon's SureShot, himself, Rumsfeld & crew can Obama now
undo it?

Absolute power would indeed grant that power to Obama.

--
Cliff
Maybe their check bounced???

Ha!

dennis
in nca

I think Cliff hit the nail on the head. Bush, the stupid ****, gave
up his absolute right to a self-imposed pardon with this cover up.
Problem is that Osama won't use the power.

He probably just hadn't signed or filed the paperwork yet.

How could he revoke what did not exist?

Pardons can be revoked.

A pardon is not parole or probation.

While a
decision to pardon is reversible, an actual pardon is not.

Did anyone bother to tell him & the repubs?

Seems they know more about it than ou do.

It's good that they are wise lawyers then, eh?

Otherwise it
would merely be a parole.

With neocons who knows?
The Rule of Law does not apply to them they say
(nor any laws at all I gather).

The laws that exist only in your head?

So a pardon is not a pardon?
Is it a banquer?

Or are you thinking of a criminal pardon?
In which case shrubco is the guilty party for taking the
$28,000 and can be tried for it but the pardon is still valid
I think.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...ds-suggest-pat
h-to-a-pardon/
"I hereby grant full and unconditional pardons to the following
named
persons."
Did he unpardon all of them? All or none in any case I'd think.

Nope.

Then he could not have revoked the document as it was for
all those named in it so if he had tried all pardons would
have been "revoked".

http://www.concurringopinions.com/ar...e_preside.html

http://www.bloggernews.net/119165
"Mayday Over Ohio: Another Rove Enemy Goes Down in Flames"
--
Cliff

On 25 Dec 2008 22:05:07 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

Jeff Mc wrote in
t:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 10:17:39 -0800, rigger wrote:

On Dec 25, 9:50 am, Cliff wrote:
http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/119516
"One day after granting a pardon to Brooklyn developer Isaac
Toussie,
President Bush revoked it, a step experts say is certainly rare and
possibly unprecedented."
[
Toussie, one of 19 people Bush pardoned on Tuesday, pleaded
guilty in 2003 to
defrauding the federal government and Suffolk County in mortgage
and price-inflation schemes. He and his father Robert, among the
largest landowners on Long Island, are accused of selling shoddy
homes at inflated prices, largely to minorities, in an ongoing
class-action lawsuit involving 400 families.

Yesterday, the White House said the President is revoking Toussie's
pardon, at least in part because of news reports revealing that his
father gave over $28,000 to the Republican National Committee just
months before the pardon petition.

The White House counsel recommended the pardon to the President. ]

Will they be giving back the $28,000?

And HOW can they UNDO a pardon?

According to Bush/Cheney the Executive has absolute power.

If he pardon's SureShot, himself, Rumsfeld & crew can Obama now
undo it?

Absolute power would indeed grant that power to Obama.

--
Cliff
Maybe their check bounced???

Ha!

dennis
in nca

I think Cliff hit the nail on the head. Bush, the stupid ****, gave
up his absolute right to a self-imposed pardon with this cover up.
Problem is that Osama won't use the power.

He probably just hadn't signed or filed the paperwork yet. While a
decision to pardon is reversible, an actual pardon is not. Otherwise
it would merely be a parole.


Presidential pardons can and have been reversed.

Cites? How?
--
Cliff

Cliff wrote in
:

On 25 Dec 2008 22:07:21 GMT, D Murphy wrote:

Cliff wrote in
m:

On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 12:33:43 -0600, Jeff Mc
wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 10:17:39 -0800, rigger wrote:

On Dec 25, 9:50 am, Cliff wrote:
http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/119516
"One day after granting a pardon to Brooklyn developer Isaac
Toussie,
President Bush revoked it, a step experts say is certainly rare
and possibly unprecedented."
[
Toussie, one of 19 people Bush pardoned on Tuesday, pleaded
guilty in 2003 to
defrauding the federal government and Suffolk County in mortgage
and price-inflation schemes. He and his father Robert, among the
largest landowners on Long Island, are accused of selling shoddy
homes at inflated prices, largely to minorities, in an ongoing
class-action lawsuit involving 400 families.

Yesterday, the White House said the President is revoking
Toussie's pardon, at least in part because of news reports
revealing that his father gave over $28,000 to the Republican
National Committee just months before the pardon petition.

The White House counsel recommended the pardon to the President.
]

Will they be giving back the $28,000?

And HOW can they UNDO a pardon?

According to Bush/Cheney the Executive has absolute power.

If he pardon's SureShot, himself, Rumsfeld & crew can Obama
now undo it?

Absolute power would indeed grant that power to Obama.

--
Cliff
Maybe their check bounced???

Ha!

dennis
in nca

I think Cliff hit the nail on the head. Bush, the stupid ****,
gave up his absolute right to a self-imposed pardon with this
cover up. Problem is that Osama won't use the power.

He probably just hadn't signed or filed the paperwork yet.

How could he revoke what did not exist?

Pardons can be revoked.

A pardon is not parole or probation.

Duh. Pardons and commutations of sentences can still be revoked.


While a
decision to pardon is reversible, an actual pardon is not.

Did anyone bother to tell him & the repubs?

Seems they know more about it than ou do.

It's good that they are wise lawyers then, eh?

And your playing one on usenet carries more weight?


Otherwise it
would merely be a parole.

With neocons who knows?
The Rule of Law does not apply to them they say
(nor any laws at all I gather).

The laws that exist only in your head?

So a pardon is not a pardon?

It is.

Is it a banquer?

You two should just get it on and get it over with.


Or are you thinking of a criminal pardon?

We are duscussing presidential pardons. Focus.

In which case shrubco is the guilty party for taking the
$28,000 and can be tried for it but the pardon is still valid

Nope. He didn't take $28,000.00, so there's the first problem with your
"case."

I think.

And therein lies your problem.


http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...ords-suggest-p
at h-to-a-pardon/
"I hereby grant full and unconditional pardons to the following
named
persons."
Did he unpardon all of them? All or none in any case I'd think.

Nope.

Then he could not have revoked the document as it was for
all those named in it so if he had tried all pardons would
have been "revoked".

Huh? You seem confused. A pardon isn't some big fill-in-the-blanks form
where you list everyone you want to pardon.

Keep reaching.


http://www.concurringopinions.com/ar...the_preside.ht
ml

It could be revoked by the next president anyway. You need to let it go.
He's never going to be arrested, charged, or tried for anything.


http://www.bloggernews.net/119165
"Mayday Over Ohio: Another Rove Enemy Goes Down in Flames"

You sure love your conspiracy k00ks, Sancho.

--

Dan

CNC Videos - http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d

wrote in news:ede6df2a-5d07-4470-a012-
:

ÿ Will they be giving back the $28,000?

They should buy O'bamas senate seat.


That's not nearly enough money. It appears to be $25,000.00 minimum for an
appointed state job. State contracts sell for more. Senate seats according
to Blago are "****ing golden."

We have testimony in Federal court that state jobs and contracts were sold
in exchange for donations to Blagojevich's campaign.

The natural question would be; who was running that campaign and just how
much did the campaign managers know about it.

The answer is Blagojevich, Emanuel, Obama, and Wilhelm ran the campaign. I
find it hard to believe that any member of this team who ran the budget,
hustled donations, bought advertising, and met regularly didn't know what
was going on.

Did Obama not want to deal for the seat because he figured Blago owed him?
Or did he suddenly find some ethics? Time will tell.

I know I'm resting easier now that the Obama transition team has finished
its investigation into the Obama transition team and much to my surprise
found no evidence of "inappropriate" contact with Blago. Case closed. At
least until Blago gets convicted and decides to sing like Rezko and the
rest. Obama will be into his third year by then.

--

Dan

CNC Videos - http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d

On Dec 27, 4:02*pm, D Murphy wrote:
wrote in news:ede6df2a-5d07-4470-a012-
:

ÿ Will they be giving back the $28,000?

They should buy O'bamas senate seat.

That's not nearly enough money. It appears to be $25,000.00 minimum for an
appointed state job. State contracts sell for more. Senate seats according
to Blago are "****ing golden."

We have testimony in Federal court that state jobs and contracts were sold
in exchange for donations to Blagojevich's campaign.

The natural question would be; who was running that campaign and just how
much did the campaign managers know about it.

The answer is Blagojevich, Emanuel, Obama, and Wilhelm ran the campaign. I
find it hard to believe that any member of this team who ran the budget,
hustled donations, bought advertising, and met regularly didn't know what
was going on.

Did Obama not want to deal for the seat because he figured Blago owed him?
Or did he suddenly find some ethics? Time will tell.

I know I'm resting easier now that the Obama transition team has finished
its investigation into the Obama transition team and much to my surprise
found no evidence of "inappropriate" contact with Blago. Case closed. At
least until Blago gets convicted and decides to sing like Rezko and the
rest. Obama will be into his third year by then.

--

Dan

CNC Videos - http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d

Hopefully, the feds have made copies of the tapes because once the new
administration puts their guy in charge of the FBI...

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 20:14:41 -0800, hot-ham-and-cheese wrote:

On Dec 27, 4:02Â*pm, D Murphy wrote:
wrote in news:ede6df2a-5d07-4470-a012-
:

ÿ Will they be giving back the $28,000?

They should buy O'bamas senate seat.

That's not nearly enough money. It appears to be $25,000.00 minimum for
an appointed state job. State contracts sell for more. Senate seats
according to Blago are "****ing golden."

We have testimony in Federal court that state jobs and contracts were
sold in exchange for donations to Blagojevich's campaign.

The natural question would be; who was running that campaign and just
how much did the campaign managers know about it.

The answer is Blagojevich, Emanuel, Obama, and Wilhelm ran the
campaign. I find it hard to believe that any member of this team who
ran the budget, hustled donations, bought advertising, and met
regularly didn't know what was going on.

Did Obama not want to deal for the seat because he figured Blago owed
him? Or did he suddenly find some ethics? Time will tell.

I know I'm resting easier now that the Obama transition team has
finished its investigation into the Obama transition team and much to
my surprise found no evidence of "inappropriate" contact with Blago.
Case closed. At least until Blago gets convicted and decides to sing
like Rezko and the rest. Obama will be into his third year by then.

--

Dan

CNC Videos - http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d

Hopefully, the feds have made copies of the tapes because once the new
administration puts their guy in charge of the FBI...

Aren't you the guy who was going to support the new president?

--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
23 Days More of George Walker Bush Plundering the Economy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------