On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 12:29:45 -0600, Jeff Mc wrote:

rigger wrote:
On Dec 25, 9:50 am, Cliff wrote:
http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/119516
"One day after granting a pardon to Brooklyn developer Isaac Toussie,
President Bush revoked it, a step experts say is certainly rare and possibly
unprecedented."
[
Toussie, one of 19 people Bush pardoned on Tuesday, pleaded guilty in 2003 to
defrauding the federal government and Suffolk County in mortgage and
price-inflation schemes. He and his father Robert, among the largest landowners
on Long Island, are accused of selling shoddy homes at inflated prices, largely
to minorities, in an ongoing class-action lawsuit involving 400 families.

Yesterday, the White House said the President is revoking Toussie's pardon, at
least in part because of news reports revealing that his father gave over
$28,000 to the Republican National Committee just months before the pardon
petition.

The White House counsel recommended the pardon to the President.
]

Will they be giving back the $28,000?

And HOW can they UNDO a pardon?
If he pardon's SureShot, himself, Rumsfeld & crew can Obama now undo it?
--
Cliff

Maybe their check bounced???

Maybe we shouldn't be too quick to criticize Bush for actually trying to
correct one of his screw-ups, albeit a minor one, for once. The
result is more important than the motivation.

Can he execute those found innocent too?

Jeff
--
Cliff

Cliff wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 12:29:45 -0600, Jeff Mc wrote:

rigger wrote:
On Dec 25, 9:50 am, Cliff wrote:
http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/119516
"One day after granting a pardon to Brooklyn developer Isaac Toussie,
President Bush revoked it, a step experts say is certainly rare and possibly
unprecedented."
[
Toussie, one of 19 people Bush pardoned on Tuesday, pleaded guilty in 2003 to
defrauding the federal government and Suffolk County in mortgage and
price-inflation schemes. He and his father Robert, among the largest landowners
on Long Island, are accused of selling shoddy homes at inflated prices, largely
to minorities, in an ongoing class-action lawsuit involving 400 families.

Yesterday, the White House said the President is revoking Toussie's pardon, at
least in part because of news reports revealing that his father gave over
$28,000 to the Republican National Committee just months before the pardon
petition.

The White House counsel recommended the pardon to the President.
]

Will they be giving back the $28,000?

And HOW can they UNDO a pardon?
If he pardon's SureShot, himself, Rumsfeld & crew can Obama now undo it?
--
Cliff
Maybe their check bounced???
Maybe we shouldn't be too quick to criticize Bush for actually trying to
correct one of his screw-ups, albeit a minor one, for once. The
result is more important than the motivation.

It's a process.
Can he unscramble eggs too?

It happens all the time in the legal system. At the last minute,
rulings, plea deals, etc. fall through after they are reached or
announced, but before they become official.

Personally, I think Bush might have a bit of trouble scrambling eggs in
the first place. But he'd have no trouble breaking them; he's good at
breaking things.

Jeff

Cliff wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 12:33:43 -0600, Jeff Mc wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 10:17:39 -0800, rigger wrote:

On Dec 25, 9:50 am, Cliff wrote:
http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/119516
"One day after granting a pardon to Brooklyn developer Isaac
Toussie,
President Bush revoked it, a step experts say is certainly rare and
possibly unprecedented."
[
Toussie, one of 19 people Bush pardoned on Tuesday, pleaded guilty
in 2003 to
defrauding the federal government and Suffolk County in mortgage and
price-inflation schemes. He and his father Robert, among the largest
landowners on Long Island, are accused of selling shoddy homes at
inflated prices, largely to minorities, in an ongoing class-action
lawsuit involving 400 families.

Yesterday, the White House said the President is revoking Toussie's
pardon, at least in part because of news reports revealing that his
father gave over $28,000 to the Republican National Committee just
months before the pardon petition.

The White House counsel recommended the pardon to the President. ]

Will they be giving back the $28,000?

And HOW can they UNDO a pardon?
According to Bush/Cheney the Executive has absolute power.

If he pardon's SureShot, himself, Rumsfeld & crew can Obama now undo
it?
Absolute power would indeed grant that power to Obama.

--
Cliff
Maybe their check bounced???
Ha!

dennis
in nca
I think Cliff hit the nail on the head. Bush, the stupid ****, gave up
his absolute right to a self-imposed pardon with this cover up. Problem
is that Osama won't use the power.

He probably just hadn't signed or filed the paperwork yet.

How could he revoke what did not exist?

While a
decision to pardon is reversible, an actual pardon is not.

Did anyone bother to tell him & the repubs?

Otherwise it
would merely be a parole.

With neocons who knows?
The Rule of Law does not apply to them they say
(nor any laws at all I gather).


http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...h-to-a-pardon/
"I hereby grant full and unconditional pardons to the following named
persons."
Did he unpardon all of them? All or none in any case I'd think.

Jeff

\

Cheney probably has his pardon tucked into his jacket pocket.

On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 15:29:05 -0500, Boater wrote:

Cliff wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 12:33:43 -0600, Jeff Mc wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 10:17:39 -0800, rigger wrote:

On Dec 25, 9:50 am, Cliff wrote:
http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/119516
"One day after granting a pardon to Brooklyn developer Isaac
Toussie,
President Bush revoked it, a step experts say is certainly rare and
possibly unprecedented."
[
Toussie, one of 19 people Bush pardoned on Tuesday, pleaded guilty
in 2003 to
defrauding the federal government and Suffolk County in mortgage and
price-inflation schemes. He and his father Robert, among the largest
landowners on Long Island, are accused of selling shoddy homes at
inflated prices, largely to minorities, in an ongoing class-action
lawsuit involving 400 families.

Yesterday, the White House said the President is revoking Toussie's
pardon, at least in part because of news reports revealing that his
father gave over $28,000 to the Republican National Committee just
months before the pardon petition.

The White House counsel recommended the pardon to the President. ]

Will they be giving back the $28,000?

And HOW can they UNDO a pardon?
According to Bush/Cheney the Executive has absolute power.

If he pardon's SureShot, himself, Rumsfeld & crew can Obama now undo
it?
Absolute power would indeed grant that power to Obama.

--
Cliff
Maybe their check bounced???
Ha!

dennis
in nca
I think Cliff hit the nail on the head. Bush, the stupid ****, gave up
his absolute right to a self-imposed pardon with this cover up. Problem
is that Osama won't use the power.

He probably just hadn't signed or filed the paperwork yet.

How could he revoke what did not exist?

While a
decision to pardon is reversible, an actual pardon is not.

Did anyone bother to tell him & the repubs?

Otherwise it
would merely be a parole.

With neocons who knows?
The Rule of Law does not apply to them they say
(nor any laws at all I gather).


http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...h-to-a-pardon/
"I hereby grant full and unconditional pardons to the following named
persons."
Did he unpardon all of them? All or none in any case I'd think.

Jeff

\

Cheney probably has his pardon tucked into his jacket pocket.

Cliff provides a lot of solace, doesn't he? I'm glad for you.

Hope your Christmas day is great!
--
John

Have a Super Christmas and a Spectacular New Year!

On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 12:29:45 -0600, Jeff Mc wrote:

rigger wrote:
On Dec 25, 9:50 am, Cliff wrote:
http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/119516
"One day after granting a pardon to Brooklyn developer Isaac
Toussie,
President Bush revoked it, a step experts say is certainly rare and
possibly unprecedented."
[
Toussie, one of 19 people Bush pardoned on Tuesday, pleaded guilty
in 2003 to
defrauding the federal government and Suffolk County in mortgage and
price-inflation schemes. He and his father Robert, among the largest
landowners on Long Island, are accused of selling shoddy homes at
inflated prices, largely to minorities, in an ongoing class-action
lawsuit involving 400 families.

Yesterday, the White House said the President is revoking Toussie's
pardon, at least in part because of news reports revealing that his
father gave over $28,000 to the Republican National Committee just
months before the pardon petition.

The White House counsel recommended the pardon to the President. ]

Will they be giving back the $28,000?

And HOW can they UNDO a pardon?
If he pardon's SureShot, himself, Rumsfeld & crew can Obama now undo
it?
--
Cliff

Maybe their check bounced???

Maybe we shouldn't be too quick to criticize Bush for actually trying to
correct one of his screw-ups, albeit a minor one, for once. The
result is more important than the motivation.

True, the result was most excellent. Bush created a precedent for future
Presidents to overturn his midnight 19 January 2009 pardons.

Jeff


--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
26 Days More of George Walker Bush Plundering the Economy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Boater" wrote in message
...
Cliff wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 12:33:43 -0600, Jeff Mc wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 10:17:39 -0800, rigger wrote:

On Dec 25, 9:50 am, Cliff wrote:
http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/119516
"One day after granting a pardon to Brooklyn developer Isaac
Toussie,
President Bush revoked it, a step experts say is certainly rare and
possibly unprecedented."
[
Toussie, one of 19 people Bush pardoned on Tuesday, pleaded guilty
in 2003 to
defrauding the federal government and Suffolk County in mortgage and
price-inflation schemes. He and his father Robert, among the largest
landowners on Long Island, are accused of selling shoddy homes at
inflated prices, largely to minorities, in an ongoing class-action
lawsuit involving 400 families.

Yesterday, the White House said the President is revoking Toussie's
pardon, at least in part because of news reports revealing that his
father gave over $28,000 to the Republican National Committee just
months before the pardon petition.

The White House counsel recommended the pardon to the President. ]

Will they be giving back the $28,000?

And HOW can they UNDO a pardon?
According to Bush/Cheney the Executive has absolute power.

If he pardon's SureShot, himself, Rumsfeld & crew can Obama now
undo
it?
Absolute power would indeed grant that power to Obama.

--
Cliff
Maybe their check bounced???
Ha!

dennis
in nca
I think Cliff hit the nail on the head. Bush, the stupid ****, gave up
his absolute right to a self-imposed pardon with this cover up.
Problem is that Osama won't use the power.

He probably just hadn't signed or filed the paperwork yet.

How could he revoke what did not exist?

While a decision to pardon is reversible, an actual pardon is not.

Did anyone bother to tell him & the repubs?

Otherwise it would merely be a parole.

With neocons who knows?
The Rule of Law does not apply to them they say
(nor any laws at all I gather).


http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...h-to-a-pardon/
"I hereby grant full and unconditional pardons to the following named
persons."
Did he unpardon all of them? All or none in any case I'd think.

Jeff

\

Cheney probably has his pardon tucked into his jacket pocket.


Did you happen to notice Cheney is on your Yale list?

Eisboch

Eisboch wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
Cliff wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 12:33:43 -0600, Jeff Mc wrote:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 10:17:39 -0800, rigger wrote:

On Dec 25, 9:50 am, Cliff wrote:
http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/119516
"One day after granting a pardon to Brooklyn developer Isaac
Toussie,
President Bush revoked it, a step experts say is certainly rare and
possibly unprecedented."
[
Toussie, one of 19 people Bush pardoned on Tuesday, pleaded guilty
in 2003 to
defrauding the federal government and Suffolk County in mortgage and
price-inflation schemes. He and his father Robert, among the largest
landowners on Long Island, are accused of selling shoddy homes at
inflated prices, largely to minorities, in an ongoing class-action
lawsuit involving 400 families.

Yesterday, the White House said the President is revoking Toussie's
pardon, at least in part because of news reports revealing that his
father gave over $28,000 to the Republican National Committee just
months before the pardon petition.

The White House counsel recommended the pardon to the President. ]

Will they be giving back the $28,000?

And HOW can they UNDO a pardon?
According to Bush/Cheney the Executive has absolute power.

If he pardon's SureShot, himself, Rumsfeld & crew can Obama now
undo
it?
Absolute power would indeed grant that power to Obama.

--
Cliff
Maybe their check bounced???
Ha!

dennis
in nca
I think Cliff hit the nail on the head. Bush, the stupid ****, gave up
his absolute right to a self-imposed pardon with this cover up.
Problem is that Osama won't use the power.

He probably just hadn't signed or filed the paperwork yet.
How could he revoke what did not exist?

While a decision to pardon is reversible, an actual pardon is not.
Did anyone bother to tell him & the repubs?

Otherwise it would merely be a parole.
With neocons who knows?
The Rule of Law does not apply to them they say
(nor any laws at all I gather).


http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...h-to-a-pardon/
"I hereby grant full and unconditional pardons to the following named
persons."
Did he unpardon all of them? All or none in any case I'd think.

Jeff
\

Cheney probably has his pardon tucked into his jacket pocket.


Did you happen to notice Cheney is on your Yale list?

Eisboch




So what? I've never stated or implied Cheney was stupid. He's not; he's
very smart. He's just evil. :)

Note that it isn't *my* list. I swiped it.

On Dec 25, 6:45 pm, Jeff Mc wrote:
D Murphy wrote:
Jeff Mc wrote in
t:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 10:17:39 -0800, rigger wrote:

On Dec 25, 9:50 am, Cliff wrote:
http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/119516
"One day after granting a pardon to Brooklyn developer Isaac
Toussie,
President Bush revoked it, a step experts say is certainly rare and
possibly unprecedented."
[
Toussie, one of 19 people Bush pardoned on Tuesday, pleaded
guilty in 2003 to
defrauding the federal government and Suffolk County in mortgage
and price-inflation schemes. He and his father Robert, among the
largest landowners on Long Island, are accused of selling shoddy
homes at inflated prices, largely to minorities, in an ongoing
class-action lawsuit involving 400 families.

Yesterday, the White House said the President is revoking Toussie's
pardon, at least in part because of news reports revealing that his
father gave over $28,000 to the Republican National Committee just
months before the pardon petition.

The White House counsel recommended the pardon to the President. ]

Will they be giving back the $28,000?

And HOW can they UNDO a pardon?
According to Bush/Cheney the Executive has absolute power.

If he pardon's SureShot, himself, Rumsfeld & crew can Obama now
undo it?
Absolute power would indeed grant that power to Obama.

--
Cliff
Maybe their check bounced???
Ha!

dennis
in nca
I think Cliff hit the nail on the head. Bush, the stupid ****, gave
up his absolute right to a self-imposed pardon with this cover up.
Problem is that Osama won't use the power.

He probably just hadn't signed or filed the paperwork yet. While a
decision to pardon is reversible, an actual pardon is not. Otherwise
it would merely be a parole.

Presidential pardons can and have been reversed.

Really? That's news me. got a cite hardy? I'd like to learn more.

Jeff

Lets compare the ethics of two presidential pardons. Rich was
pardoned by Clinton after he cheated the USA out of 250 million in
taxes. Later, Rich made campaign contributions to Hillary.
Bush pardons this guy and then finds he contributed $25,000 to the RNC
and rescinds the pardon.
Who is more ethical?
Are Dems even capable of reasoning?

Jeff Mc wrote in news:3RU4l.12899$nD1.11317
@bignews5.bellsouth.net:

D Murphy wrote:
Jeff Mc wrote in
:

Curly Surmudgeon wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 10:17:39 -0800, rigger wrote:

On Dec 25, 9:50 am, Cliff wrote:
http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/119516
"One day after granting a pardon to Brooklyn developer Isaac
Toussie,
President Bush revoked it, a step experts say is certainly rare
and
possibly unprecedented."
[
Toussie, one of 19 people Bush pardoned on Tuesday, pleaded
guilty in 2003 to
defrauding the federal government and Suffolk County in mortgage
and price-inflation schemes. He and his father Robert, among the
largest landowners on Long Island, are accused of selling shoddy
homes at inflated prices, largely to minorities, in an ongoing
class-action lawsuit involving 400 families.

Yesterday, the White House said the President is revoking
Toussie's
pardon, at least in part because of news reports revealing that
his
father gave over $28,000 to the Republican National Committee just
months before the pardon petition.

The White House counsel recommended the pardon to the President. ]

Will they be giving back the $28,000?

And HOW can they UNDO a pardon?
According to Bush/Cheney the Executive has absolute power.

If he pardon's SureShot, himself, Rumsfeld & crew can Obama now
undo it?
Absolute power would indeed grant that power to Obama.

--
Cliff
Maybe their check bounced???
Ha!

dennis
in nca
I think Cliff hit the nail on the head. Bush, the stupid ****, gave
up his absolute right to a self-imposed pardon with this cover up.
Problem is that Osama won't use the power.

He probably just hadn't signed or filed the paperwork yet. While a
decision to pardon is reversible, an actual pardon is not. Otherwise
it would merely be a parole.


Presidential pardons can and have been reversed.


Really? That's news me. got a cite hardy? I'd like to learn more.


No I don't. But there's this search engine called Google and if you use
it you can find loads of them. Like this one -

http://pardonpower.com/2008/12/can-president-revoke-pardon-he-has.html

Presidents can revoke pardons and commutations issued by other presidents
as well as ones they issued themselves.

HTH

--

Dan

CNC Videos - http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d

Frogwatch wrote:
On Dec 25, 6:45 pm, Jeff Mc wrote:
D Murphy wrote:
Jeff Mc wrote in
:
Curly Surmudgeon wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 10:17:39 -0800, rigger wrote:
On Dec 25, 9:50 am, Cliff wrote:
http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/119516
"One day after granting a pardon to Brooklyn developer Isaac
Toussie,
President Bush revoked it, a step experts say is certainly rare and
possibly unprecedented."
[
Toussie, one of 19 people Bush pardoned on Tuesday, pleaded
guilty in 2003 to
defrauding the federal government and Suffolk County in mortgage
and price-inflation schemes. He and his father Robert, among the
largest landowners on Long Island, are accused of selling shoddy
homes at inflated prices, largely to minorities, in an ongoing
class-action lawsuit involving 400 families.
Yesterday, the White House said the President is revoking Toussie's
pardon, at least in part because of news reports revealing that his
father gave over $28,000 to the Republican National Committee just
months before the pardon petition.
The White House counsel recommended the pardon to the President. ]
Will they be giving back the $28,000?
And HOW can they UNDO a pardon?
According to Bush/Cheney the Executive has absolute power.
If he pardon's SureShot, himself, Rumsfeld & crew can Obama now
undo it?
Absolute power would indeed grant that power to Obama.
--
Cliff
Maybe their check bounced???
Ha!
dennis
in nca
I think Cliff hit the nail on the head. Bush, the stupid ****, gave
up his absolute right to a self-imposed pardon with this cover up.
Problem is that Osama won't use the power.
He probably just hadn't signed or filed the paperwork yet. While a
decision to pardon is reversible, an actual pardon is not. Otherwise
it would merely be a parole.
Presidential pardons can and have been reversed.
Really? That's news me. got a cite hardy? I'd like to learn more.

Jeff

Lets compare the ethics of two presidential pardons. Rich was
pardoned by Clinton after he cheated the USA out of 250 million in
taxes. Later, Rich made campaign contributions to Hillary.
Bush pardons this guy and then finds he contributed $25,000 to the RNC
and rescinds the pardon.
Who is more ethical?
Are Dems even capable of reasoning?


WMDs, Katrina aftermath, destruction of the economy, denial of science,
Terry Schiavo.

No reasoning whatsoever, just bull****, on the GOP side.