On Dec 19, 12:23*pm, Jim wrote:
John wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:06:12 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:21:48 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:07:20 -0500, John wrote:

...for water to come out the pilot hole with ear muffs attached once the
engine has been started and is idling at about 700rpm?

Yesterday I was about to fog the engine. I put the muffs on, got a good
supply of water going, and cranked the engine. After a minute or so, and no
water from the pilot hole, I shut it down.

I called the dealer. He said to connect the hose at the flushing
attachment, but not to let the engine get over idle speed. Then, he said,
remove the rubber caps on what appears to be the intake manifold and spray
into them. This is much easier said than done, and is totally different
from what the book says.
Also, anyone have a picture of the 'intake silencer' or the 'fogging hole
of the silencer cover'. I'm thinking the spray should go into what appears
to be the air box through the wire mesh on the inner portion of the box.

Help?
If you did what the dealer told you, you now need a new water pump
impeller. The flush hose fitting is to be used with the engine OFF, as
it supplies no water down into the water pump, which is ruined in
seconds by runniing without water.

Some engines also *require muffs that push water through BOTH sides..
Not all muffs do that.

With the proper muffs, set up correctly, there should be water from
the pilot hole almost instantly when you start the engine.
Different animal, but my Suzuki allows operation, not above idle,
through the flushing port.

I have had this happen on occasion because I had some insect
perpetually trying to build a nest in the pee hole. The engine was
getting cooling water, it just wasn't peeing. I can remove the plastic
plug that constitutes the pee hole and clean it out. I don't think you
have that luxury and I suspect the dealer is trying to get you to
essentially back flush a plug out.... at least I *hope* that is what
it was. I'd *never* run an engine over about 10-15 seconds without
seeing some water or knowing, in some way, that water was circulating.

Latest preferred practice (though I don't get it) is that one must use
muffs that push water through BOTH sides of the new Yamahas.

A dry water pump self destructs in seconds......

Thanks Gene. When I hook the hose to the garden hose adapter, water *does*
come out the pee hole. Maybe there was an obstruction and the garden hose
adapter setup allowed enough pressure to unjam it. I'll try the muffs again
today.

To fog the engine, I've got to get enough rpm for the intake to suck in the
fogging oil. An idle at 700rpm doesn't do it.
--
We say, "MERRY CHRISTMAS!"

John

If the muffs are on tight and the water spills out around the muffs, you
can boost the RPMs a little Just until the water pump sucks up all the
water without spilling. It's good to get up to 1000 RPM to prevent
premature stalling from the fogging operation.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yep, that's true!

wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:06:12 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:21:48 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:07:20 -0500, John wrote:

...for water to come out the pilot hole with ear muffs attached once the
engine has been started and is idling at about 700rpm?

Yesterday I was about to fog the engine. I put the muffs on, got a good
supply of water going, and cranked the engine. After a minute or so, and no
water from the pilot hole, I shut it down.

I called the dealer. He said to connect the hose at the flushing
attachment, but not to let the engine get over idle speed. Then, he said,
remove the rubber caps on what appears to be the intake manifold and spray
into them. This is much easier said than done, and is totally different
from what the book says.
Also, anyone have a picture of the 'intake silencer' or the 'fogging hole
of the silencer cover'. I'm thinking the spray should go into what appears
to be the air box through the wire mesh on the inner portion of the box.

Help?
If you did what the dealer told you, you now need a new water pump
impeller. The flush hose fitting is to be used with the engine OFF, as
it supplies no water down into the water pump, which is ruined in
seconds by runniing without water.

Some engines also require muffs that push water through BOTH sides.
Not all muffs do that.

With the proper muffs, set up correctly, there should be water from
the pilot hole almost instantly when you start the engine.
Different animal, but my Suzuki allows operation, not above idle,
through the flushing port.

Suzuki and Yamaha are two different companies. There is no reason to
think that what goes for one goes for both. I'm not even going to wear
that all models of Yamaha cannont be run while on the hose attachment.
My Yamaha absolutely can NOT be run like that without quickly trashing
the water pump.

I have had this happen on occasion because I had some insect
perpetually trying to build a nest in the pee hole. The engine was
getting cooling water, it just wasn't peeing. I can remove the plastic
plug that constitutes the pee hole and clean it out. I don't think you
have that luxury and I suspect the dealer is trying to get you to
essentially back flush a plug out.... at least I *hope* that is what
it was. I'd *never* run an engine over about 10-15 seconds without
seeing some water or knowing, in some way, that water was circulating.

Latest preferred practice (though I don't get it) is that one must use
muffs that push water through BOTH sides of the new Yamahas.


If you only feed the water from one side, it will not get where it
needs to go. Perhaps that is the entirety of John's problem.

A dry water pump self destructs in seconds......

Amen. If you have run one dry for more than a few seconds, it needs to
be replaced, even if it appears to still be pumping afterwards. It has
been damaged and will fail without further warning.



Hey! It's only about $11,000 to replace the engine. What the hell.

Gene wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 13:10:55 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:06:12 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:21:48 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:07:20 -0500, John wrote:

...for water to come out the pilot hole with ear muffs attached once the
engine has been started and is idling at about 700rpm?

Yesterday I was about to fog the engine. I put the muffs on, got a good
supply of water going, and cranked the engine. After a minute or so, and no
water from the pilot hole, I shut it down.

I called the dealer. He said to connect the hose at the flushing
attachment, but not to let the engine get over idle speed. Then, he said,
remove the rubber caps on what appears to be the intake manifold and spray
into them. This is much easier said than done, and is totally different
from what the book says.
Also, anyone have a picture of the 'intake silencer' or the 'fogging hole
of the silencer cover'. I'm thinking the spray should go into what appears
to be the air box through the wire mesh on the inner portion of the box.

Help?
If you did what the dealer told you, you now need a new water pump
impeller. The flush hose fitting is to be used with the engine OFF, as
it supplies no water down into the water pump, which is ruined in
seconds by runniing without water.

Some engines also require muffs that push water through BOTH sides.
Not all muffs do that.

With the proper muffs, set up correctly, there should be water from
the pilot hole almost instantly when you start the engine.
Different animal, but my Suzuki allows operation, not above idle,
through the flushing port.
Suzuki and Yamaha are two different companies. There is no reason to
think that what goes for one goes for both. I'm not even going to wear
that all models of Yamaha cannont be run while on the hose attachment.
My Yamaha absolutely can NOT be run like that without quickly trashing
the water pump.

I have had this happen on occasion because I had some insect
perpetually trying to build a nest in the pee hole. The engine was
getting cooling water, it just wasn't peeing. I can remove the plastic
plug that constitutes the pee hole and clean it out. I don't think you
have that luxury and I suspect the dealer is trying to get you to
essentially back flush a plug out.... at least I *hope* that is what
it was. I'd *never* run an engine over about 10-15 seconds without
seeing some water or knowing, in some way, that water was circulating.

Latest preferred practice (though I don't get it) is that one must use
muffs that push water through BOTH sides of the new Yamahas.

If you only feed the water from one side, it will not get where it
needs to go. Perhaps that is the entirety of John's problem.

A dry water pump self destructs in seconds......
Amen. If you have run one dry for more than a few seconds, it needs to
be replaced, even if it appears to still be pumping afterwards. It has
been damaged and will fail without further warning.

This is a bit of armchair quarterbacking...... I would defer to the
users manual and the dealer's manual.....


I would call a competent dealer's competent service department.

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 14:10:35 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 13:10:55 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:06:12 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:21:48 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:07:20 -0500, John wrote:

...for water to come out the pilot hole with ear muffs attached once the
engine has been started and is idling at about 700rpm?

Yesterday I was about to fog the engine. I put the muffs on, got a good
supply of water going, and cranked the engine. After a minute or so, and no
water from the pilot hole, I shut it down.

I called the dealer. He said to connect the hose at the flushing
attachment, but not to let the engine get over idle speed. Then, he said,
remove the rubber caps on what appears to be the intake manifold and spray
into them. This is much easier said than done, and is totally different
from what the book says.

Also, anyone have a picture of the 'intake silencer' or the 'fogging hole
of the silencer cover'. I'm thinking the spray should go into what appears
to be the air box through the wire mesh on the inner portion of the box.

Help?

If you did what the dealer told you, you now need a new water pump
impeller. The flush hose fitting is to be used with the engine OFF, as
it supplies no water down into the water pump, which is ruined in
seconds by runniing without water.

Some engines also require muffs that push water through BOTH sides.
Not all muffs do that.

With the proper muffs, set up correctly, there should be water from
the pilot hole almost instantly when you start the engine.

Different animal, but my Suzuki allows operation, not above idle,
through the flushing port.

Suzuki and Yamaha are two different companies. There is no reason to
think that what goes for one goes for both. I'm not even going to wear
that all models of Yamaha cannont be run while on the hose attachment.
My Yamaha absolutely can NOT be run like that without quickly trashing
the water pump.


I have had this happen on occasion because I had some insect
perpetually trying to build a nest in the pee hole. The engine was
getting cooling water, it just wasn't peeing. I can remove the plastic
plug that constitutes the pee hole and clean it out. I don't think you
have that luxury and I suspect the dealer is trying to get you to
essentially back flush a plug out.... at least I *hope* that is what
it was. I'd *never* run an engine over about 10-15 seconds without
seeing some water or knowing, in some way, that water was circulating.

Latest preferred practice (though I don't get it) is that one must use
muffs that push water through BOTH sides of the new Yamahas.


If you only feed the water from one side, it will not get where it
needs to go. Perhaps that is the entirety of John's problem.

A dry water pump self destructs in seconds......

Amen. If you have run one dry for more than a few seconds, it needs to
be replaced, even if it appears to still be pumping afterwards. It has
been damaged and will fail without further warning.

This is a bit of armchair quarterbacking...... I would defer to the
users manual and the dealer's manual.....

Which is what I'm trying to do. The user's manual leaves some questions.
--
We say, "MERRY CHRISTMAS!"

John

On Dec 19, 2:57*pm, Boater wrote:
Gene wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 13:10:55 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:06:12 -0500, Gene
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:21:48 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:07:20 -0500, John wrote:

...for water to come out the pilot hole with ear muffs attached once the
engine has been started and is idling at about 700rpm?

Yesterday I was about to fog the engine. I put the muffs on, got a good
supply of water going, and cranked the engine. After a minute or so, and no
water from the pilot hole, I shut it down.

I called the dealer. He said to connect the hose at the flushing
attachment, but not to let the engine get over idle speed. Then, he said,
remove the rubber caps on what appears to be the intake manifold and spray
into them. This is much easier said than done, and is totally different
from what the book says.
Also, anyone have a picture of the 'intake silencer' or the 'fogging hole
of the silencer cover'. I'm thinking the spray should go into what appears
to be the air box through the wire mesh on the inner portion of the box.

Help?
If you did what the dealer told you, you now need a new water pump
impeller. The flush hose fitting is to be used with the engine OFF, as
it supplies no water down into the water pump, which is ruined in
seconds by runniing without water.

Some engines also *require muffs that push water through BOTH sides.
Not all muffs do that.

With the proper muffs, set up correctly, there should be water from
the pilot hole almost instantly when you start the engine.
Different animal, but my Suzuki allows operation, not above idle,
through the flushing port.
Suzuki and Yamaha are two different companies. There is no reason to
think that what goes for one goes for both. I'm not even going to wear
that all models of Yamaha cannont be run while on the hose attachment.
My Yamaha absolutely can NOT be run like that without quickly trashing
the water pump.

I have had this happen on occasion because I had some insect
perpetually trying to build a nest in the pee hole. The engine was
getting cooling water, it just wasn't peeing. I can remove the plastic
plug that constitutes the pee hole and clean it out. I don't think you
have that luxury and I suspect the dealer is trying to get you to
essentially back flush a plug out.... at least I *hope* that is what
it was. I'd *never* run an engine over about 10-15 seconds without
seeing some water or knowing, in some way, that water was circulating..

Latest preferred practice (though I don't get it) is that one must use
muffs that push water through BOTH sides of the new Yamahas.

If you only feed the water from one side, it will not get where it
needs to go. Perhaps that is the entirety of John's problem.

A dry water pump self destructs in seconds......
Amen. If you have run one dry for more than a few seconds, it needs to
be replaced, even if it appears to still be pumping afterwards. It has
been damaged and will fail without further warning.

This is a bit of armchair quarterbacking...... I would defer to the
users manual and the dealer's manual.....

I would call a competent dealer's competent service department.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Are they thoroughly vetted to make sure they meet your strict
standards? Besides, I know that because you aren't capable that you
don't think anybody should, but some people actually enjoy working on
their own things, and enjoy learning how to do it properly.

"John" wrote in message
...



I called the dealer. He said to connect the hose at the flushing
attachment, but not to let the engine get over idle speed.



If the dealer said to use the flusher hose and fitting under the motor's
powerhead, I'd be having a word with that dealer person. The Yamaha owners
manual, service manual, and training seminars state specifically NOT to run
the motor using it. Only run the motor with the "earmuff" type flushers
around the gearcase, preferably the dual hose feed style muffs.

Bill Grannis
service manager

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:53:46 -0500, "Billgran"
wrote:


"John" wrote in message
.. .



I called the dealer. He said to connect the hose at the flushing
attachment, but not to let the engine get over idle speed.



If the dealer said to use the flusher hose and fitting under the motor's
powerhead, I'd be having a word with that dealer person. The Yamaha owners
manual, service manual, and training seminars state specifically NOT to run
the motor using it. Only run the motor with the "earmuff" type flushers
around the gearcase, preferably the dual hose feed style muffs.

Bill Grannis
service manager



When some people say they "talked to the dealer", they mean they
talked to someone at the dealership. That could be a sales person,
yard boy, receptionist, retired father of the owner with a lot of free
time now that he's not allowed to drive any more, etc. It doesn't
mean he talked to anyone who REALLY knows what he's talking about.

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:53:46 -0500, "Billgran" wrote:


"John" wrote in message
.. .



I called the dealer. He said to connect the hose at the flushing
attachment, but not to let the engine get over idle speed.



If the dealer said to use the flusher hose and fitting under the motor's
powerhead, I'd be having a word with that dealer person. The Yamaha owners
manual, service manual, and training seminars state specifically NOT to run
the motor using it. Only run the motor with the "earmuff" type flushers
around the gearcase, preferably the dual hose feed style muffs.

Bill Grannis
service manager


Thanks Bill. That's what the dealer said, as long as I didn't go above idle
it was ok. I think I need to find me a new dealer.
--

Salmonbait

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 13:20:26 -0500, Boater
wrote:

If you only feed the water from one side, it will not get where it
needs to go. Perhaps that is the entirety of John's problem.

A dry water pump self destructs in seconds......

Amen. If you have run one dry for more than a few seconds, it needs to
be replaced, even if it appears to still be pumping afterwards. It has
been damaged and will fail without further warning.



Hey! It's only about $11,000 to replace the engine. What the hell.

I just replaced the engine on a Lincoln Navigator for half that. Four
cams, 32 valve 330 CID, 300 horse. Same specific output as a 57 chevy.

Casady

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...


I just replaced the engine on a Lincoln Navigator for half that. Four
cams, 32 valve 330 CID, 300 horse. Same specific output as a 57 chevy.

Casady

Speaking of Navigators, my son-in-law's just died. It used to be my wife's
and she gave it to him when she bought a new one.

Only 75k miles and the head gasket let go on one side of the engine, causing
some other damage in three cylinders. That's not a lot of miles to have
that kind of a failure.

He was quoted a minimum of $3k to fix it. Traded it instead for a PU
truck.

Eisboch