Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:46:42 -0700, "RG" wrote:

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:20:58 -0500, Boater
wrote:

Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 12:21:14 -0500, Boater
wrote:

We've handed out close to a trillion dollars to the Wall Street and
banking industries, and for what? We'll get nothing out of that. Not
even a lousy car.
Tell me just out of curiosity - what model car do you drive? How
about your wife?
Why do you ask? I don't fault the UAW or organized workers for the
crappiness of some of the cars US producers turn out.
Just curious.
It's a Toyota. Really.

~Snerk~

That's what I thought.

Made down South with non-Union labor.

Do as I say - not as I do.

Typical. He wants to save a company from which he won't buy a car
because of quality issues which is built by the very same Union
members he says are so important to the US. Instead he buys a car
from a foreign company built in the US by non-Union labor.

Now is that tortured thinking or what?
--

The quality issues have nothing to do with the workers who build the
car, and everything to do with corporate management. Besides, you are
assuming there is but one vehicle. There are others. The Toyota has
100,000+ miles and is only used to tow the boat. At least *one* of the
others is built with UAW labor.

"Boater" wrote in message
...

The quality issues have nothing to do with the workers who build the car,
and everything to do with corporate management.


That's right. I forgot. The union workers are paid to stay home while Rick
Wagoner personally bolts the cars together.

Eisboch

Eisboch wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
The quality issues have nothing to do with the workers who build the car,
and everything to do with corporate management.


That's right. I forgot. The union workers are paid to stay home while Rick
Wagoner personally bolts the cars together.

Eisboch




Unless things have changed drastically since I last visited an
autoplant, virtually every decision on who does what with what and for
how long is determined by management. Design is determined by
management. Tools are decided by management. Training is decided by
management. Materials are decided by management. Assembly line speed is
decided by management.

"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
The quality issues have nothing to do with the workers who build the
car, and everything to do with corporate management.


That's right. I forgot. The union workers are paid to stay home while
Rick Wagoner personally bolts the cars together.

Eisboch


Unless things have changed drastically since I last visited an autoplant,
virtually every decision on who does what with what and for how long is
determined by management. Design is determined by management. Tools are
decided by management. Training is decided by management. Materials are
decided by management. Assembly line speed is decided by management.


And a major portion of the assembly is done by robots.
And here we have the root of the problem.

Back in the late 70's and early 80's as Nissan, Toyota and Honda started
chipping away at Detroit's market share, the Japanese cars were being built
on new, modern, automated assembly lines. They didn't have unions to get
****ed off about it.

Detroit, not to be left behind, started automating their lines as well,
developing robotic systems to do the work of people. I remember this well,
because industrial programmable logic controllers (PLC), built by Texas
Instruments, were initially prohibited by the UAW contracts because the
description of the PLC included the words "microprocessor" and "computer".
The UAW contract prohibited line workers from being replaced by a
"computer". So, the plan was withdrawn for a while, then re-introduced and
the logic controller was called a "PLC".

But anyway, that's when the downfall started. Automation was resisted and
contract negotiations became very adversarial over the years. Ridiculous
contract clauses were agreed to, because sales were still good, money was
being made and management was focused on trying to avoid the numerous
strikes that occurred anyway.

Remember?

Eisboch

On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 18:06:36 -0500, Boater
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
The quality issues have nothing to do with the workers who build the car,
and everything to do with corporate management.

That's right. I forgot. The union workers are paid to stay home while Rick
Wagoner personally bolts the cars together.

Unless things have changed drastically since I last visited an
autoplant, virtually every decision on who does what with what and for
how long is determined by management. Design is determined by
management. Tools are decided by management. Training is decided by
management. Materials are decided by management. Assembly line speed is
decided by management.

Then what does the Union do?

And by the way, you never answered my question. Why did you buy a
foreign car built by non-Union labor in the US?

Smacks of hyprocrisy don't you think?

--

"Every normal man must be tempted at times
to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag,
and begin to slit throats."

H. L. Mencken

Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 18:06:36 -0500, Boater
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
The quality issues have nothing to do with the workers who build the car,
and everything to do with corporate management.
That's right. I forgot. The union workers are paid to stay home while Rick
Wagoner personally bolts the cars together.
Unless things have changed drastically since I last visited an
autoplant, virtually every decision on who does what with what and for
how long is determined by management. Design is determined by
management. Tools are decided by management. Training is decided by
management. Materials are decided by management. Assembly line speed is
decided by management.

Then what does the Union do?

And by the way, you never answered my question. Why did you buy a
foreign car built by non-Union labor in the US?

Smacks of hyprocrisy don't you think?

--


Traditionally, manufacturing unions negotiate to improve the wages,
hours, working conditions and benefits of their members. In progressive
countries abroad and at some plants here, they do more.

The construction unions are significantly different in scope, as are the
professional unions, such as teachers' unions.

My understanding is that the Toyota we have was not built by non-union
workers in the USA.

Why did I choose it? Because at the time I purchased it, the
corresponding Ford and GM vehicles were too large.

"Boater" wrote in message
...

My understanding is that the Toyota we have was not built by non-union
workers in the USA.

Why did I choose it? Because at the time I purchased it, the corresponding
Ford and GM vehicles were too large.


I assume you bought a used Tundra.

Eisboch

On Mon, 8 Dec 2008 04:32:22 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Boater" wrote in message
...

My understanding is that the Toyota we have was not built by non-union
workers in the USA.

Why did I choose it? Because at the time I purchased it, the corresponding
Ford and GM vehicles were too large.


I assume you bought a used Tundra.

Eisboch


I believe he said he had a 4Runner.
--
John H.