D.Duck wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html?
mod=rss_opinion_main
Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and
merge
Chrysler with Ford.

No bail out.
Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. Ford, yes, and a much
smaller and different GM.

Exactly. Chrysler hired an outside bankruptcy law firm yesterday. They
are preparing for the inevitable.

GM needs to replace Wagoner. He is so out of touch with reality that he
can't be in charge of
reorganizing.

The Ford guy (ex-Boeing) seems to be a little more pro-active and may
be ok. He's only been there for two years
and has already made some serious changes to Ford's overall business
structure.

Eisboch

Sorry, but if we can bail out the useless pushers of paper on wall street
and get absolutely nothing in return, we can help the millions of real
working Americans whose jobs depend on the domestic auto industry. I don't
buy into the concept that bankruptcy reorganization will work for
Chrysler, Ford or GM.


You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union contracts.




We're in dire straits in this country. Everyone has to sacrifice, and if
that means nulling and voiding contracts, let's also cut the pension and
healthcare benefits of civilian and military retirees. Right?

"Boater" wrote in message
...
D.Duck wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html?
mod=rss_opinion_main
Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and
merge
Chrysler with Ford.

No bail out.
Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. Ford, yes, and a much
smaller and different GM.

Exactly. Chrysler hired an outside bankruptcy law firm yesterday.
They are preparing for the inevitable.

GM needs to replace Wagoner. He is so out of touch with reality that
he can't be in charge of
reorganizing.

The Ford guy (ex-Boeing) seems to be a little more pro-active and may
be ok. He's only been there for two years
and has already made some serious changes to Ford's overall business
structure.

Eisboch

Sorry, but if we can bail out the useless pushers of paper on wall
street and get absolutely nothing in return, we can help the millions of
real working Americans whose jobs depend on the domestic auto industry.
I don't buy into the concept that bankruptcy reorganization will work
for Chrysler, Ford or GM.


You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union
contracts.


We're in dire straits in this country. Everyone has to sacrifice, and if
that means nulling and voiding contracts, let's also cut the pension and
healthcare benefits of civilian and military retirees. Right?

Yes, whatever it takes, if a company is in the same condition as the auto
makers.

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:43:59 -0500, Boater wrote:

D.Duck wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html?
mod=rss_opinion_main
Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and
merge
Chrysler with Ford.

No bail out.
Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. Ford, yes, and a much
smaller and different GM.

Exactly. Chrysler hired an outside bankruptcy law firm yesterday. They
are preparing for the inevitable.

GM needs to replace Wagoner. He is so out of touch with reality that he
can't be in charge of
reorganizing.

The Ford guy (ex-Boeing) seems to be a little more pro-active and may
be ok. He's only been there for two years
and has already made some serious changes to Ford's overall business
structure.

Eisboch

Sorry, but if we can bail out the useless pushers of paper on wall street
and get absolutely nothing in return, we can help the millions of real
working Americans whose jobs depend on the domestic auto industry. I don't
buy into the concept that bankruptcy reorganization will work for
Chrysler, Ford or GM.


You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union contracts.




We're in dire straits in this country. Everyone has to sacrifice, and if
that means nulling and voiding contracts, let's also cut the pension and
healthcare benefits of civilian and military retirees. Right?

You thinking Obama's going to run the government out of business?
--
John H.

JohnH wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:43:59 -0500, Boater wrote:

D.Duck wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html?
mod=rss_opinion_main
Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and
merge
Chrysler with Ford.

No bail out.
Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. Ford, yes, and a much
smaller and different GM.
Exactly. Chrysler hired an outside bankruptcy law firm yesterday. They
are preparing for the inevitable.

GM needs to replace Wagoner. He is so out of touch with reality that he
can't be in charge of
reorganizing.

The Ford guy (ex-Boeing) seems to be a little more pro-active and may
be ok. He's only been there for two years
and has already made some serious changes to Ford's overall business
structure.

Eisboch
Sorry, but if we can bail out the useless pushers of paper on wall street
and get absolutely nothing in return, we can help the millions of real
working Americans whose jobs depend on the domestic auto industry. I don't
buy into the concept that bankruptcy reorganization will work for
Chrysler, Ford or GM.

You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union contracts.



We're in dire straits in this country. Everyone has to sacrifice, and if
that means nulling and voiding contracts, let's also cut the pension and
healthcare benefits of civilian and military retirees. Right?

You thinking Obama's going to run the government out of business?

Arnold's done it to California.

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:43:59 -0500, Boater wrote:

D.Duck wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html?
mod=rss_opinion_main
Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and
merge
Chrysler with Ford.

No bail out.
Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. Ford, yes, and a much
smaller and different GM.

Exactly. Chrysler hired an outside bankruptcy law firm yesterday.
They
are preparing for the inevitable.

GM needs to replace Wagoner. He is so out of touch with reality that
he
can't be in charge of
reorganizing.

The Ford guy (ex-Boeing) seems to be a little more pro-active and
may
be ok. He's only been there for two years
and has already made some serious changes to Ford's overall business
structure.

Eisboch

Sorry, but if we can bail out the useless pushers of paper on wall
street
and get absolutely nothing in return, we can help the millions of real
working Americans whose jobs depend on the domestic auto industry. I
don't
buy into the concept that bankruptcy reorganization will work for
Chrysler, Ford or GM.


You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union
contracts.




We're in dire straits in this country. Everyone has to sacrifice, and if
that means nulling and voiding contracts, let's also cut the pension and
healthcare benefits of civilian and military retirees. Right?

You thinking Obama's going to run the government out of business?
--
John H.

I do. Literally and figuratively. Obama may try bail out and free money,
but it will fail. Government is ignoring some pretty obvious problems and
solutions, because no one wants to hear it.

"Boater" wrote in message
...
D.Duck wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html?
mod=rss_opinion_main
Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and
merge
Chrysler with Ford.

No bail out.
Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. Ford, yes, and a much
smaller and different GM.

Exactly. Chrysler hired an outside bankruptcy law firm yesterday.
They are preparing for the inevitable.

GM needs to replace Wagoner. He is so out of touch with reality that
he can't be in charge of
reorganizing.

The Ford guy (ex-Boeing) seems to be a little more pro-active and may
be ok. He's only been there for two years
and has already made some serious changes to Ford's overall business
structure.

Eisboch

Sorry, but if we can bail out the useless pushers of paper on wall
street and get absolutely nothing in return, we can help the millions of
real working Americans whose jobs depend on the domestic auto industry.
I don't buy into the concept that bankruptcy reorganization will work
for Chrysler, Ford or GM.


You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union
contracts.


We're in dire straits in this country. Everyone has to sacrifice, and if
that means nulling and voiding contracts, let's also cut the pension and
healthcare benefits of civilian and military retirees. Right?


...and make retired CEOs pay back some of their ill gotten gains.

On Dec 6, 7:43*am, Boater wrote:
D.Duck wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html?
mod=rss_opinion_main
Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and
merge
Chrysler with Ford.

No bail out.
Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. *Ford, yes, and a much
smaller and different GM.

Exactly. * Chrysler hired an outside bankruptcy law firm yesterday. *They
are preparing for the inevitable.

GM needs to replace Wagoner. *He is so out of touch with reality that he
can't *be in charge of
reorganizing.

The Ford guy *(ex-Boeing) *seems to be a little more pro-active and may
be ok. *He's only been there for two years
and has already made some serious changes to Ford's overall business
structure.

Eisboch

Sorry, but if we can bail out the useless pushers of paper on wall street
and get absolutely nothing in return, we can help the millions of real
working Americans whose jobs depend on the domestic auto industry. I don't
buy into the concept that bankruptcy reorganization will work for
Chrysler, Ford *or GM.

You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union contracts.

We're in dire straits in this country. Everyone has to sacrifice, and if
that means nulling and voiding contracts, let's also cut the pension and
healthcare benefits of civilian and military retirees. Right?

"Cut" I don't know, but a lot of things can be put into a more fair
perspective.

"Boater" wrote in message
...
D.Duck wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html?
mod=rss_opinion_main
Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and
merge
Chrysler with Ford.

No bail out.
Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. Ford, yes, and a much
smaller and different GM.

Exactly. Chrysler hired an outside bankruptcy law firm yesterday.
They are preparing for the inevitable.

GM needs to replace Wagoner. He is so out of touch with reality that
he can't be in charge of
reorganizing.

The Ford guy (ex-Boeing) seems to be a little more pro-active and may
be ok. He's only been there for two years
and has already made some serious changes to Ford's overall business
structure.

Eisboch

Sorry, but if we can bail out the useless pushers of paper on wall
street and get absolutely nothing in return, we can help the millions of
real working Americans whose jobs depend on the domestic auto industry.
I don't buy into the concept that bankruptcy reorganization will work
for Chrysler, Ford or GM.

You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union
contracts.

We're in dire straits in this country. Everyone has to sacrifice, and if
that means nulling and voiding contracts, let's also cut the pension and
healthcare benefits of civilian and military retirees. Right?

Don't worry, I think you will eventually see exactly that.

Keep in mind government revenues are going down in this, further increasing
debt. Since the government is quite litterly putting this on printing money
credit, it is debt on the currency, at some point this will crash the dollar
and breed hyper-inflation. Government has yet to realize you can't pay debt
with more debt to get out of a hole. That practice means a deaper hole. I
think government actually wants inflation thinking if a home inflates faster
than deflation pressures that somehow the banks will not collapse further.

But I think they are on a fools errand.