"Don White" wrote in message
...

"Boater" wrote in message
...
Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...s_opinion_main

Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and
merge Chrysler with Ford.

No bail out.


Wall street brokerage house and bankers...

Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of all management, and then blow up
their buildings.

No golden parachutes.

Oh...and in all publicly traded corporations, no executive earnings to
exceed 10 times the earnings of the average employee.

I'd vote for that. I can't believe the compensation some of those CEOs
get while the companies they run are into the dirt.

If a company had a decent board of directors it would already have such
policies. But I too always vote for it when I see it. One other thing I
like is locked in performance bonuses that mature years later and they can't
sell. I do watch insider trading.

Problem is, the board of directors are often an "old boys" butt kiss club in
many cases. So one hand payolas the others in non-obvious relationships. I
always research the board and CEO history before buying a stock.

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html?
mod=rss_opinion_main

Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge
Chrysler with Ford.

No bail out.

Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. Ford, yes, and a much
smaller and different GM.

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html?
mod=rss_opinion_main

Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge
Chrysler with Ford.

No bail out.

Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. Ford, yes, and a much
smaller and different GM.


Exactly. Chrysler hired an outside bankruptcy law firm yesterday. They
are preparing for the inevitable.

GM needs to replace Wagoner. He is so out of touch with reality that he
can't be in charge of
reorganizing.

The Ford guy (ex-Boeing) seems to be a little more pro-active and may be
ok. He's only been there for two years
and has already made some serious changes to Ford's overall business
structure.

Eisboch

Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html?
mod=rss_opinion_main
Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and merge
Chrysler with Ford.

No bail out.
Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. Ford, yes, and a much
smaller and different GM.


Exactly. Chrysler hired an outside bankruptcy law firm yesterday. They
are preparing for the inevitable.

GM needs to replace Wagoner. He is so out of touch with reality that he
can't be in charge of
reorganizing.

The Ford guy (ex-Boeing) seems to be a little more pro-active and may be
ok. He's only been there for two years
and has already made some serious changes to Ford's overall business
structure.

Eisboch




Sorry, but if we can bail out the useless pushers of paper on wall
street and get absolutely nothing in return, we can help the millions of
real working Americans whose jobs depend on the domestic auto industry.
I don't buy into the concept that bankruptcy reorganization will work
for Chrysler, Ford or GM.

"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html?
mod=rss_opinion_main
Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and
merge
Chrysler with Ford.

No bail out.
Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. Ford, yes, and a much
smaller and different GM.


Exactly. Chrysler hired an outside bankruptcy law firm yesterday. They
are preparing for the inevitable.

GM needs to replace Wagoner. He is so out of touch with reality that he
can't be in charge of
reorganizing.

The Ford guy (ex-Boeing) seems to be a little more pro-active and may
be ok. He's only been there for two years
and has already made some serious changes to Ford's overall business
structure.

Eisboch


Sorry, but if we can bail out the useless pushers of paper on wall street
and get absolutely nothing in return, we can help the millions of real
working Americans whose jobs depend on the domestic auto industry. I don't
buy into the concept that bankruptcy reorganization will work for
Chrysler, Ford or GM.


You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union contracts.

D.Duck wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:14:20 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...28184421.html?
mod=rss_opinion_main
Bankrupt them, downsize them, get rid of the onerous contracts and
merge
Chrysler with Ford.

No bail out.
Personally, I can't see Chrysler surviving. Ford, yes, and a much
smaller and different GM.

Exactly. Chrysler hired an outside bankruptcy law firm yesterday. They
are preparing for the inevitable.

GM needs to replace Wagoner. He is so out of touch with reality that he
can't be in charge of
reorganizing.

The Ford guy (ex-Boeing) seems to be a little more pro-active and may
be ok. He's only been there for two years
and has already made some serious changes to Ford's overall business
structure.

Eisboch

Sorry, but if we can bail out the useless pushers of paper on wall street
and get absolutely nothing in return, we can help the millions of real
working Americans whose jobs depend on the domestic auto industry. I don't
buy into the concept that bankruptcy reorganization will work for
Chrysler, Ford or GM.


You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union contracts.




We're in dire straits in this country. Everyone has to sacrifice, and if
that means nulling and voiding contracts, let's also cut the pension and
healthcare benefits of civilian and military retirees. Right?

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:38:52 -0500, D.Duck wrote:


You just want to see what some bankruptcy judge would do to union
contracts.

Direct labor costs are only @10% of the cost of building a car. If you
want to cut costs, labor isn't the place to start.

"Boater" wrote in message
...


Sorry, but if we can bail out the useless pushers of paper on wall street
and get absolutely nothing in return, we can help the millions of real
working Americans whose jobs depend on the domestic auto industry. I don't
buy into the concept that bankruptcy reorganization will work for
Chrysler, Ford or GM.



Most of the members of Congress now realize that in their rush to do
something, they really screwed up the TARP bailout. They won't make that
mistake again.

The fairest and most efficient means to save the auto industry is through a
government (taxpayer) supported, pre-packaged Chapter 11 filing. They
don't go immediately out of business.
Current workers continue working. But, a federal judge will arbitrate new
contracts, vendor payments, and the negotiations required to accomplish
these. Government (taxpayer) financial support can be given subject to
specific uses for the money, as overseen by the bankrupcy court.

It works.

Eisboch

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:42:35 -0500, Eisboch wrote:


The fairest and most efficient means to save the auto industry is
through a government (taxpayer) supported, pre-packaged Chapter 11
filing. They don't go immediately out of business. Current workers
continue working. But, a federal judge will arbitrate new contracts,
vendor payments, and the negotiations required to accomplish these.
Government (taxpayer) financial support can be given subject to specific
uses for the money, as overseen by the bankrupcy court.

It works.

I'm not sure bankruptcy court would work in this case. Bankruptcy court
is good for getting people to do the same things, only cheaper.
Detroit's supply chain, is already working on very thin margins, as
evidenced by the number of in-bankruptcy companies, e.g., Delphi. It
seems to me, a more innovative approach is needed for long term
viability. Bankruptcy courts are not known for being innovative. I tend
to prefer Frank's bill.

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press...ss111708.shtml

On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 08:42:35 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Boater" wrote in message
...


Sorry, but if we can bail out the useless pushers of paper on wall street
and get absolutely nothing in return, we can help the millions of real
working Americans whose jobs depend on the domestic auto industry. I don't
buy into the concept that bankruptcy reorganization will work for
Chrysler, Ford or GM.



Most of the members of Congress now realize that in their rush to do
something, they really screwed up the TARP bailout. They won't make that
mistake again.

The fairest and most efficient means to save the auto industry is through a
government (taxpayer) supported, pre-packaged Chapter 11 filing. They
don't go immediately out of business.
Current workers continue working. But, a federal judge will arbitrate new
contracts, vendor payments, and the negotiations required to accomplish
these. Government (taxpayer) financial support can be given subject to
specific uses for the money, as overseen by the bankrupcy court.

Exactly.

Perfectly phrased.

--

"Far better it is to dare mighty things,
to win glorious triumphs even though
checkered by failure, than to rank with
those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor
suffer much because they live in the gray
twilight that knows neither victory nor
defeat."

Theodore Roosevelt