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Bridge loan to nowhere..
On Dec 14, 5:15*pm, John wrote:
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 22:10:09 +0000 (UTC), RLM wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:57:41 -0500, John wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:51:27 -0600, wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 08:17:37 -0800, justwaitafrekinminute wrote: There is no way in the world the American worker of present day works harder than the guy in my dad's day. I have been victim to being told to slow down by a union. In all fairness (which we won't expect from the other side) I was also told to slow down while on piece work at Standadyne, a non union shop... That may, or may not be, but American workers are still the most productive workers on this planet. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20572828/ In all this discussion, you've never answered the questions asked by myself or Tom. A lot of side-stepping, but no direct answer. Do your own research to prove him wrong. Twenty years of welfare and nothing but questions. Too lazy to use the internet. Still on welfare. Who holds your hand to cross the street? There was no research needed. They were simple questions. -- John- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - snerk |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
John wrote:
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:02:13 -0600, wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:57:41 -0500, John wrote: In all this discussion, you've never answered the questions asked by myself or Tom. A lot of side-stepping, but no direct answer. Well Colonel, I'm not in the service. Why in the hell, would I take orders from you? Answer your own strawman. Orders? Have you ever noticed that most liberals, when asked a specific question, will ignore the question, change the subject, or resort to personal insults... rather than answer the question? Most liberals would consider you and your questions specious and not worth the bit of effort it would take to respond. The more you post, the more it becomes obvious that money spent on the military is wasted. |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:15:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote: On Dec 14, 5:15*pm, John wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 22:10:09 +0000 (UTC), RLM wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:57:41 -0500, John wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:51:27 -0600, wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 08:17:37 -0800, justwaitafrekinminute wrote: There is no way in the world the American worker of present day works harder than the guy in my dad's day. I have been victim to being told to slow down by a union. In all fairness (which we won't expect from the other side) I was also told to slow down while on piece work at Standadyne, a non union shop... That may, or may not be, but American workers are still the most productive workers on this planet. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20572828/ In all this discussion, you've never answered the questions asked by myself or Tom. A lot of side-stepping, but no direct answer. Do your own research to prove him wrong. Twenty years of welfare and nothing but questions. Too lazy to use the internet. Still on welfare. Who holds your hand to cross the street? There was no research needed. They were simple questions. -- John- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - snerk You've noticed, some liberals resort to the personal insult phase without even being asked a question. -- John |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:12:10 -0600, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:03:17 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: http://www.bls.gov/lpc/prodybar.htm Well, that's kind of the point. What data do you trust? The Bureau of Labor Statistics. Fine - but what caused the increase? Something has to change - what was it? Who should benefit from the obvious productivity increase - the company or the workers? Historically, when productivity increases, there may be a lag, but wages also increase. What's changed? The answer to that, is far more devastating to this country's long term economic health, than the middle-class not getting their share. You raise some important questions and frankly, I don't have an answer for you - I'll admit it. Obviously, its far to simplistic to blame the fat cats and corporate executives. Perhaps there has been a fundamental shift in how money is distributed, the money supply being managed - there's a whole host of factors that could explain it, but I'm not an economist although I do play one on TV. :) I watch CNBC a lot - in particular the early show Squawk Box or if I'm out and about, I listen on Sirius. When you watch two opposing sides take the same sets of data and make them fit their own agendas and viewpoints, you begin to wonder if anybody really and truly knows what's going on. Now for the really oddball opinon. I've often suspected that "real wages" are being sucked up by government in various ways. I had an experience Friday that floored me. I was kind of messing around in the kitchen and I gathered up the bills for the paper pusher to handle. I just started looking through them - there are more fees, taxes and "adjustments' on my cable, telephone and wireless bills that I could shake a stick at - easily adding 3-4% to the cost of the bill and that's before sales/service taxes which add another - what, 6%? What are all these fees/taxes/access charges doing to real wages? What's the measure of productivity he's quoting? Per unit, per hour, per what? I would think that if a company over 8 years increased it's productivity by 20% (which is 2.5%/yr by the way) that's not a whole lot considering inflation, raw material costs, etc. And if your company has a high labor quotient to the cost of production, that's almost negligible. If you want to consider inflation, real wages have decreased. Well, I think the last time I could buy a decent cigar for .75¢ was about twenty years ago. :) |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:15:33 -0800, justwaitafrekinminute wrote:
On Dec 14, 5:15*pm, John wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 22:10:09 +0000 (UTC), RLM wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:57:41 -0500, John wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:51:27 -0600, wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 08:17:37 -0800, justwaitafrekinminute wrote: There is no way in the world the American worker of present day works harder than the guy in my dad's day. I have been victim to being told to slow down by a union. In all fairness (which we won't expect from the other side) I was also told to slow down while on piece work at Standadyne, a non union shop... That may, or may not be, but American workers are still the most productive workers on this planet. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20572828/ In all this discussion, you've never answered the questions asked by myself or Tom. A lot of side-stepping, but no direct answer. Do your own research to prove him wrong. Twenty years of welfare and nothing but questions. Too lazy to use the internet. Still on welfare. Who holds your hand to cross the street? There was no research needed. They were simple questions. -- John- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - snerk Is snerk a remark like snot? It's "snot" in the dictionary and it's "snot" making any sense. Snot at least is both of those. Is it just the best the group can muster. My answer to that snerk! snot |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:21:32 -0500, RLM wrote:
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:15:33 -0800, justwaitafrekinminute wrote: On Dec 14, 5:15*pm, John wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 22:10:09 +0000 (UTC), RLM wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:57:41 -0500, John wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:51:27 -0600, wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 08:17:37 -0800, justwaitafrekinminute wrote: There is no way in the world the American worker of present day works harder than the guy in my dad's day. I have been victim to being told to slow down by a union. In all fairness (which we won't expect from the other side) I was also told to slow down while on piece work at Standadyne, a non union shop... That may, or may not be, but American workers are still the most productive workers on this planet. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20572828/ In all this discussion, you've never answered the questions asked by myself or Tom. A lot of side-stepping, but no direct answer. Do your own research to prove him wrong. Twenty years of welfare and nothing but questions. Too lazy to use the internet. Still on welfare. Who holds your hand to cross the street? There was no research needed. They were simple questions. -- John- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - snerk Is snerk a remark like snot? It's "snot" in the dictionary and it's "snot" making any sense. Snot at least is both of those. Is it just the best the group can muster. My answer to that snerk! snot You need to do your own research about 'snerk'. -- John |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 17:55:18 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:12:10 -0600, wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:03:17 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: http://www.bls.gov/lpc/prodybar.htm Well, that's kind of the point. What data do you trust? The Bureau of Labor Statistics. Fine - but what caused the increase? Something has to change - what was it? 2.5% annual increase in productivity isn't unusual coming out of a recession. What is unusual, is that wages didn't increase, and this isn't Bush bashing. The productivity/wage gap could also be seen under Clinton. While the top 1% still got there's, it doesn't account for all of the difference. I would suggest we are now seeing the effects of the past 25 years of Globalization exerting it's downward pressure on wages. Production is only one side of the marketplace paradigm. The reason this country has been the world's marketplace, was because we had a robust middle-class. No more. Personally, I feel it's too late to seal our borders to imports, but, I hope Obama has the sense to use whatever leverage we have left, to open foreign markets. Japan, India, and China, need to know that if they want to sell here, we have to be able to sell there. We've been giving it away, and it's time to stop. Who should benefit from the obvious productivity increase - the company or the workers? Historically, when productivity increases, there may be a lag, but wages also increase. What's changed? The answer to that, is far more devastating to this country's long term economic health, than the middle-class not getting their share. You raise some important questions and frankly, I don't have an answer for you - I'll admit it. Obviously, its far to simplistic to blame the fat cats and corporate executives. Perhaps there has been a fundamental shift in how money is distributed, the money supply being managed - there's a whole host of factors that could explain it, but I'm not an economist although I do play one on TV. :) I watch CNBC a lot - in particular the early show Squawk Box or if I'm out and about, I listen on Sirius. When you watch two opposing sides take the same sets of data and make them fit their own agendas and viewpoints, you begin to wonder if anybody really and truly knows what's going on. Now for the really oddball opinon. I've often suspected that "real wages" are being sucked up by government in various ways. I had an experience Friday that floored me. I was kind of messing around in the kitchen and I gathered up the bills for the paper pusher to handle. I just started looking through them - there are more fees, taxes and "adjustments' on my cable, telephone and wireless bills that I could shake a stick at - easily adding 3-4% to the cost of the bill and that's before sales/service taxes which add another - what, 6%? What are all these fees/taxes/access charges doing to real wages? What's the measure of productivity he's quoting? Per unit, per hour, per what? I would think that if a company over 8 years increased it's productivity by 20% (which is 2.5%/yr by the way) that's not a whole lot considering inflation, raw material costs, etc. And if your company has a high labor quotient to the cost of production, that's almost negligible. If you want to consider inflation, real wages have decreased. Well, I think the last time I could buy a decent cigar for .75¢ was about twenty years ago. :) |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:38:52 -0500, John wrote:
Now you're making good sense, and you're not quoting a Bush-bashing article to do it. http://www.amishrakefight.org/gfy/ |
Bridge loan to nowhere..
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 17:31:35 -0600, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 17:55:18 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:12:10 -0600, wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:03:17 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: http://www.bls.gov/lpc/prodybar.htm Well, that's kind of the point. What data do you trust? The Bureau of Labor Statistics. Fine - but what caused the increase? Something has to change - what was it? 2.5% annual increase in productivity isn't unusual coming out of a recession. What is unusual, is that wages didn't increase, and this isn't Bush bashing. The productivity/wage gap could also be seen under Clinton. While the top 1% still got there's, it doesn't account for all of the difference. I would suggest we are now seeing the effects of the past 25 years of Globalization exerting it's downward pressure on wages. Production is only one side of the marketplace paradigm. The reason this country has been the world's marketplace, was because we had a robust middle-class. No more. Personally, I feel it's too late to seal our borders to imports, but, I hope Obama has the sense to use whatever leverage we have left, to open foreign markets. Japan, India, and China, need to know that if they want to sell here, we have to be able to sell there. We've been giving it away, and it's time to stop. Now you're making good sense, and you're not quoting a Bush-bashing article to do it. -- John |
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