On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:49:00 GMT, Steve wrote:




What will probably end up happening to solve the problem is that
either the shipping companies will tell all their captains to give
that area a much wider berth or they'll start hiring security forces
to protect the ships and not make them such easy targets. A 24 hour
watch with a few mounted and armored .50 cal machine guns will ruin
the day of those pirates in their speedboats.

When you're hauling $100,000,000 in cargo, the cost of a few extra
crew and some machine guns is irrelevant and is probably cheaper than
going around the area.

Think they're going to need more than .50's.
These Somali idiots are pretty well armed, and nutso.
They could have blasted that oil tanker with RPG rounds at the least.
And like I said, they're nuts.
It's going to take some serious killing of Somali pirates before it
stops. Probably land bombing/missile strikes.
There will be collateral damage.

--Vic

On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 11:31:40 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:49:00 GMT, Steve wrote:




What will probably end up happening to solve the problem is that
either the shipping companies will tell all their captains to give
that area a much wider berth or they'll start hiring security forces
to protect the ships and not make them such easy targets. A 24 hour
watch with a few mounted and armored .50 cal machine guns will ruin
the day of those pirates in their speedboats.

When you're hauling $100,000,000 in cargo, the cost of a few extra
crew and some machine guns is irrelevant and is probably cheaper than
going around the area.

Think they're going to need more than .50's.
These Somali idiots are pretty well armed, and nutso.
They could have blasted that oil tanker with RPG rounds at the least.
And like I said, they're nuts.
It's going to take some serious killing of Somali pirates before it
stops. Probably land bombing/missile strikes.
There will be collateral damage.

They're looking for easy targets. If you're a bunch of pirates in a
little speedboat coming up to a tanker the size of an aircraft carrier
and while you're thinking of having to climb up a hundred foot rope
ladder there are guys on deck a hundred feet above you manning a few
mounted armored .50's and raining rounds into your boat while you're
still a mile out, you're gonna turn around real quick.

They weren't carrying anything to counter that. RPGs don't have
enough range. The rocket dies after only around 500m and they are
designed to self explode after less than 1000m of flight. An M2 .50
cal machine gun has an effective range (good enough to disable or sink
the speedboat) of twice that and a max range (good enough to let the
pirates know they are under fire) of over 4 miles.

And a huge freighter/tanker makes a great stable gun platform. A fast
moving speedboat does not.

Steve

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:15:37 GMT, Steve wrote:




They're looking for easy targets. If you're a bunch of pirates in a
little speedboat coming up to a tanker the size of an aircraft carrier
and while you're thinking of having to climb up a hundred foot rope
ladder there are guys on deck a hundred feet above you manning a few
mounted armored .50's and raining rounds into your boat while you're
still a mile out, you're gonna turn around real quick.

They weren't carrying anything to counter that. RPGs don't have
enough range. The rocket dies after only around 500m and they are
designed to self explode after less than 1000m of flight. An M2 .50
cal machine gun has an effective range (good enough to disable or sink
the speedboat) of twice that and a max range (good enough to let the
pirates know they are under fire) of over 4 miles.

And a huge freighter/tanker makes a great stable gun platform. A fast
moving speedboat does not.

You might be right about the .50's.
Still, that's a lot of gunners and watchkeepers.
I suspect the ship operators will get the military to handle it.
Saw a clip of some captured pirates today on the news.
It's a mistake "capturing" these guys.
Take no prisoners.

--Vic

On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 21:35:10 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:15:37 GMT, Steve wrote:




They're looking for easy targets. If you're a bunch of pirates in a
little speedboat coming up to a tanker the size of an aircraft carrier
and while you're thinking of having to climb up a hundred foot rope
ladder there are guys on deck a hundred feet above you manning a few
mounted armored .50's and raining rounds into your boat while you're
still a mile out, you're gonna turn around real quick.

They weren't carrying anything to counter that. RPGs don't have
enough range. The rocket dies after only around 500m and they are
designed to self explode after less than 1000m of flight. An M2 .50
cal machine gun has an effective range (good enough to disable or sink
the speedboat) of twice that and a max range (good enough to let the
pirates know they are under fire) of over 4 miles.

And a huge freighter/tanker makes a great stable gun platform. A fast
moving speedboat does not.

You might be right about the .50's.
Still, that's a lot of gunners and watchkeepers.
I suspect the ship operators will get the military to handle it.

The only way the military can do it is to escort the ships. What
they'll have to end up doing to make it an efficient use of resources
is just like in WWII, set up a convoy of a bunch of freighters/tankers
and have a military ship run with them through that area of ocean.

Another way is to attack the pirates on shore, which involves us or
someone going into Somalia (again) and doing that.

I see one shipping company has told their captians to avoid the area,
adding thousands of miles and many days to the trip:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk...6908-20906776/

You know how much it costs to take a supertanker an extra few thousand
miles? Much much cheaper to weld on some gun mounts and guns and hire
an extra 4 or 5 security people for watches and to man them.

Steve

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:15:37 +0000, Steve wrote:


They're looking for easy targets. If you're a bunch of pirates in a
little speedboat coming up to a tanker the size of an aircraft carrier
and while you're thinking of having to climb up a hundred foot rope
ladder there are guys on deck a hundred feet above you manning a few
mounted armored .50's and raining rounds into your boat while you're
still a mile out, you're gonna turn around real quick.

No one said they were smart pirates. Apparently, they, the pirates, were
the first to open fire on the Tabar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INS_Tabar_(F44)

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 06:10:13 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:15:37 +0000, Steve wrote:


They're looking for easy targets. If you're a bunch of pirates in a
little speedboat coming up to a tanker the size of an aircraft carrier
and while you're thinking of having to climb up a hundred foot rope
ladder there are guys on deck a hundred feet above you manning a few
mounted armored .50's and raining rounds into your boat while you're
still a mile out, you're gonna turn around real quick.

No one said they were smart pirates. Apparently, they, the pirates, were
the first to open fire on the Tabar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INS_Tabar_(F44)

Yes, but that was the big mothership that fired, not the little
speedboats they use to come alongside their prey and use grappling
hooks and rope ladders for boarding. Apparently being on the
mothership gave them an extremenly false sense of security.

Steve