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Political: Let em fail
The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. |
Political: Let em fail
Frogwatch wrote:
The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. The Unions didn't do squat. The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and gambling did them in along with the rest of us. How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6 mos. |
Political: Let em fail
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Political: Let em fail
On Nov 14, 3:12*pm, tin cup wrote:
Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. *Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. *They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. *The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. *No bailouts for Bull****. The Unions didn't do squat. The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and gambling did them in along with the rest of us. How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6 mos. Labor costs are a big part of gm's problem. Unfortunately the unions, in their zeal, helped cause the problem. I mean let's face it, where else besides auto plants could you get $25 - $30 dollars an hour for semi-skilled labor. And the retirement programs are turning out to be extremely costly. They were not based on your condtributions into an account like today. They were fixed payouts based on your years of service. A lot of those semi-skilled laborers retired at a fairly young age and many get $50k or more a year in retirement. |
Political: Let em fail
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Political: Let em fail
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Political: Let em fail
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Political: Let em fail
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Political: Let em fail
"Frogwatch" wrote in message ... The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. GM and particularly Ford are making decent headway in some of their newer model introductions. Some of GM's products are rated as highly as anything from Toyota or higher in terms of quality and frequency of problems. Same with some of the new Ford products who also has been recognized as the leader of the American manufacturers in terms of actively revising their product line and getting with the program. This does not include many of the older models and trucks that are slowly being phased out. Eisboch |
Political: Let em fail
tin cup wrote:
Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. The Unions didn't do squat. The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and gambling did them in along with the rest of us. How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6 mos. Why should a guy putting lug nuts on a wheel get a six figure income? |
Political: Let em fail
Boater wrote:
wrote: On Nov 14, 3:12 pm, tin cup wrote: Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. The Unions didn't do squat. The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and gambling did them in along with the rest of us. How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6 mos. Labor costs are a big part of gm's problem. Unfortunately the unions, in their zeal, helped cause the problem. I mean let's face it, where else besides auto plants could you get $25 - $30 dollars an hour for semi-skilled labor. And the retirement programs are turning out to be extremely costly. They were not based on your condtributions into an account like today. They were fixed payouts based on your years of service. A lot of those semi-skilled laborers retired at a fairly young age and many get $50k or more a year in retirement. What's your point, that a representative of assembly line works met at the bargaining table with the employer of those workers and negotiated a contract? Negotiated a contract? I don't believe that for a minute. That's the way it is supposed to be. Who are we going to threaten with a strike this year? The fix we are in right now has nothing to do with union workers and everything to do with the landed aristocracy in this country of Wall Street financial manipulators and corporate executives, and the hands-off regulatory style of the Bush Administration. Even now, the crooks in the Bush Administration won't tell us who is getting the bail-out money. It has to do with union labor. |
Political: Let em fail
BAR wrote:
tin cup wrote: Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. The Unions didn't do squat. The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and gambling did them in along with the rest of us. How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6 mos. Why should a guy putting lug nuts on a wheel get a six figure income? Why should you have any job? |
Political: Let em fail
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote: wrote: On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being considerable MORE expensive. GM vehicles are crap. Honda's and Toyota's are good quality vehicles. GM cannot put the effort, money, into quality due to the costs they have to pay for union labor and union benefits. Yep...you are indeed simple-minded. You are always looking at the problem from the labor perspective and immediately assign blame to management. You are the simple-minded idiot. You need to look at it from all angles and find the cause of the problem. |
Political: Let em fail
Boater wrote:
Jim wrote: wrote: On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being considerable MORE expensive. Right! Hondas and Toyotas are the problem. Quality is the problem. Them scab non union workers is the problem. Ain't no union problems. Boy, that's a relief. BTW A billion dollars or so is going up in smoke around 8PM tonight. Hope yall is watchin. Life after the Navy, where you did not excel, must have been a hell of a letdown for you, FloridaJim. I've never seen anyone here work harder at being an idiot. Yes, yes, I know about Loogy and Just Wait, but they don't have to work at it. You're not that far from the Northeast Florida State Hospital at Macclenny, right? I believe it is the one that serves your county. You'd probably get better treatment there than at an old sailor's home. Once you are Baker-acted, I'm sure you could get in there. Has Harry turned a bit more sour than usual? It is amazing that his candidate or party has won and he isn't jumping for joy in the streets. |
Political: Let em fail
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote: tin cup wrote: Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. The Unions didn't do squat. The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and gambling did them in along with the rest of us. How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6 mos. Why should a guy putting lug nuts on a wheel get a six figure income? Why should you have any job? I provide value to the stockholders. |
Political: Let em fail
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote: BAR wrote: wrote: On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being considerable MORE expensive. GM vehicles are crap. Honda's and Toyota's are good quality vehicles. GM cannot put the effort, money, into quality due to the costs they have to pay for union labor and union benefits. Yep...you are indeed simple-minded. You are always looking at the problem from the labor perspective and immediately assign blame to management. You are the simple-minded idiot. You need to look at it from all angles and find the cause of the problem. Corporations are run by management, not by the workers. Lately, management has been incompetent. It's that simple. |
Political: Let em fail
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote: BAR wrote: tin cup wrote: Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. The Unions didn't do squat. The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and gambling did them in along with the rest of us. How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6 mos. Why should a guy putting lug nuts on a wheel get a six figure income? Why should you have any job? I provide value to the stockholders. As what? Annual meeting clown? |
Political: Let em fail
On Nov 14, 4:04 pm, Boater wrote:
BAR wrote: tin cup wrote: Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. The Unions didn't do squat. The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and gambling did them in along with the rest of us. How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6 mos. Why should a guy putting lug nuts on a wheel get a six figure income? Why should you have any job? Being in the market for a new truck, I have looked at Consumer Reports and guess what, Toyota and Nissan are rated higher for quality than Ford or GM. Same is true for smaller SUVs like the Highlander. Back in the mid-80s, I read where auto workers were making $60K/yr for unskilled labor. No way the auto companies can make anything decent when they pay such outrageous wages for unskilled ppl. Let em die. No bailout for bull****. Harry needs to see who runs congress these days. It is the Dems who will not tell us where our money is going. It is the Dems that caused this problem, Dodd, Frank and Reid. Hang em from a lamppost along with their false messiah. |
Political: Let em fail
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote: Jim wrote: wrote: On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being considerable MORE expensive. Right! Hondas and Toyotas are the problem. Quality is the problem. Them scab non union workers is the problem. Ain't no union problems. Boy, that's a relief. BTW A billion dollars or so is going up in smoke around 8PM tonight. Hope yall is watchin. Life after the Navy, where you did not excel, must have been a hell of a letdown for you, FloridaJim. I've never seen anyone here work harder at being an idiot. Yes, yes, I know about Loogy and Just Wait, but they don't have to work at it. You're not that far from the Northeast Florida State Hospital at Macclenny, right? I believe it is the one that serves your county. You'd probably get better treatment there than at an old sailor's home. Once you are Baker-acted, I'm sure you could get in there. Has Harry turned a bit more sour than usual? It is amazing that his candidate or party has won and he isn't jumping for joy in the streets. It's interesting that neither you nor Florida Jim have boats. What are you doing here? |
Political: Let em fail
"Boater" wrote in message ... BAR wrote: Boater wrote: BAR wrote: wrote: On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being considerable MORE expensive. GM vehicles are crap. Honda's and Toyota's are good quality vehicles. GM cannot put the effort, money, into quality due to the costs they have to pay for union labor and union benefits. Yep...you are indeed simple-minded. You are always looking at the problem from the labor perspective and immediately assign blame to management. You are the simple-minded idiot. You need to look at it from all angles and find the cause of the problem. Corporations are run by management, not by the workers. Lately, management has been incompetent. It's that simple. Grossly overpaid incompetent management. Unbelieveable the compensation packages they receive while the industry heads for the dumpster. |
Political: Let em fail
"BAR" wrote in message ... Boater wrote: wrote: On Nov 14, 3:12 pm, tin cup wrote: Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. The Unions didn't do squat. The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and gambling did them in along with the rest of us. How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6 mos. Labor costs are a big part of gm's problem. Unfortunately the unions, in their zeal, helped cause the problem. I mean let's face it, where else besides auto plants could you get $25 - $30 dollars an hour for semi-skilled labor. And the retirement programs are turning out to be extremely costly. They were not based on your condtributions into an account like today. They were fixed payouts based on your years of service. A lot of those semi-skilled laborers retired at a fairly young age and many get $50k or more a year in retirement. What's your point, that a representative of assembly line works met at the bargaining table with the employer of those workers and negotiated a contract? Negotiated a contract? I don't believe that for a minute. That's the way it is supposed to be. Who are we going to threaten with a strike this year? The fix we are in right now has nothing to do with union workers and everything to do with the landed aristocracy in this country of Wall Street financial manipulators and corporate executives, and the hands-off regulatory style of the Bush Administration. Even now, the crooks in the Bush Administration won't tell us who is getting the bail-out money. It has to do with union labor. It's a wonder you know how to tie your shoelaces in the morning. It's the greed of everyone involved in the auto industry....led by the example of the senior management and the stupidity of the American consumer always wanting bigger & better when durability, practicality, efficiency and quality should have been the criteria. |
Political: Let em fail
"Don White" wrote in message ... Grossly overpaid incompetent management. Unbelieveable the compensation packages they receive while the industry heads for the dumpster. Maybe. But they are under a contract to be paid it, just like the members of the UAW employees. As horrifying and ridiculous as it is, it only becomes an issue when times are tough. When GM was making money hand over fist, nobody cared what the top management made. That's also when the employment contracts were written. I am not saying it's right. It's just a matter of fact. In good times the shareholders want the best management their money can buy to maximize their return on investment. In bad times they just want good management. Eisboch |
Political: Let em fail
On Nov 14, 4:38 pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message ... Grossly overpaid incompetent management. Unbelieveable the compensation packages they receive while the industry heads for the dumpster. Maybe. But they are under a contract to be paid it, just like the members of the UAW employees. As horrifying and ridiculous as it is, it only becomes an issue when times are tough. When GM was making money hand over fist, nobody cared what the top management made. That's also when the employment contracts were written. I am not saying it's right. It's just a matter of fact. In good times the shareholders want the best management their money can buy to maximize their return on investment. In bad times they just want good management. Eisboch Here is an interesting set of stats from TCS daily: "Here's a stat from my friend, blogger Mark Perry: Total compensation per hour for the big-three carmakers is $73.20. That's a 52 percent differential from Toyota's (Detroit South) $48 compensation (wages + health and retirement benefits). In fact, the oversized UAW-driven pay package for Detroit is 132 percent higher than that of the entire manufacturing sector of the U.S., which comes in at $31.59." So, the Dems want to bail out this bloated dinosaur? |
Political: Let em fail
"Frogwatch" wrote in message ... "Here's a stat from my friend, blogger Mark Perry: Total compensation per hour for the big-three carmakers is $73.20. That's a 52 percent differential from Toyota's (Detroit South) $48 compensation (wages + health and retirement benefits). In fact, the oversized UAW-driven pay package for Detroit is 132 percent higher than that of the entire manufacturing sector of the U.S., which comes in at $31.59." So, the Dems want to bail out this bloated dinosaur? Please don't confuse our left leaning, union supporters with facts. You'll just get called nasty names. They have a good thing going. Eisboch |
Political: Let em fail
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote: Boater wrote: Jim wrote: wrote: On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being considerable MORE expensive. Right! Hondas and Toyotas are the problem. Quality is the problem. Them scab non union workers is the problem. Ain't no union problems. Boy, that's a relief. BTW A billion dollars or so is going up in smoke around 8PM tonight. Hope yall is watchin. Life after the Navy, where you did not excel, must have been a hell of a letdown for you, FloridaJim. I've never seen anyone here work harder at being an idiot. Yes, yes, I know about Loogy and Just Wait, but they don't have to work at it. You're not that far from the Northeast Florida State Hospital at Macclenny, right? I believe it is the one that serves your county. You'd probably get better treatment there than at an old sailor's home. Once you are Baker-acted, I'm sure you could get in there. Has Harry turned a bit more sour than usual? It is amazing that his candidate or party has won and he isn't jumping for joy in the streets. It's interesting that neither you nor Florida Jim have boats. What are you doing here? Apparently we are bothering you something terrible. Ask your shrink how to deal with it. You did make the appointment to see the lady at the bricklayers union, didn't you? |
Political: Let em fail
Eisboch wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message ... Grossly overpaid incompetent management. Unbelieveable the compensation packages they receive while the industry heads for the dumpster. Maybe. But they are under a contract to be paid it, just like the members of the UAW employees. As horrifying and ridiculous as it is, it only becomes an issue when times are tough. When GM was making money hand over fist, nobody cared what the top management made. That's also when the employment contracts were written. I am not saying it's right. It's just a matter of fact. In good times the shareholders want the best management their money can buy to maximize their return on investment. In bad times they just want good management. Eisboch You think there is a connection between "the best management" and the astronomical deals many of these execs get? I don't. |
Political: Let em fail
Jim wrote:
Boater wrote: BAR wrote: Boater wrote: Jim wrote: wrote: On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being considerable MORE expensive. Right! Hondas and Toyotas are the problem. Quality is the problem. Them scab non union workers is the problem. Ain't no union problems. Boy, that's a relief. BTW A billion dollars or so is going up in smoke around 8PM tonight. Hope yall is watchin. Life after the Navy, where you did not excel, must have been a hell of a letdown for you, FloridaJim. I've never seen anyone here work harder at being an idiot. Yes, yes, I know about Loogy and Just Wait, but they don't have to work at it. You're not that far from the Northeast Florida State Hospital at Macclenny, right? I believe it is the one that serves your county. You'd probably get better treatment there than at an old sailor's home. Once you are Baker-acted, I'm sure you could get in there. Has Harry turned a bit more sour than usual? It is amazing that his candidate or party has won and he isn't jumping for joy in the streets. It's interesting that neither you nor Florida Jim have boats. What are you doing here? Apparently we are bothering you something terrible. Ask your shrink how to deal with it. You did make the appointment to see the lady at the bricklayers union, didn't you? You seem to be obsessed with my wife. She's in the middle of setting up a substantial research project right now. Maybe you could be a subject. |
Political: Let em fail
"Boater" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: "Don White" wrote in message ... Grossly overpaid incompetent management. Unbelieveable the compensation packages they receive while the industry heads for the dumpster. Maybe. But they are under a contract to be paid it, just like the members of the UAW employees. As horrifying and ridiculous as it is, it only becomes an issue when times are tough. When GM was making money hand over fist, nobody cared what the top management made. That's also when the employment contracts were written. I am not saying it's right. It's just a matter of fact. In good times the shareholders want the best management their money can buy to maximize their return on investment. In bad times they just want good management. Eisboch You think there is a connection between "the best management" and the astronomical deals many of these execs get? I don't. My point was that nobody complained when times were good. Eisboch |
Political: Let em fail
Boater wrote:
Jim wrote: Boater wrote: BAR wrote: Boater wrote: Jim wrote: wrote: On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being considerable MORE expensive. Right! Hondas and Toyotas are the problem. Quality is the problem. Them scab non union workers is the problem. Ain't no union problems. Boy, that's a relief. BTW A billion dollars or so is going up in smoke around 8PM tonight. Hope yall is watchin. Life after the Navy, where you did not excel, must have been a hell of a letdown for you, FloridaJim. I've never seen anyone here work harder at being an idiot. Yes, yes, I know about Loogy and Just Wait, but they don't have to work at it. You're not that far from the Northeast Florida State Hospital at Macclenny, right? I believe it is the one that serves your county. You'd probably get better treatment there than at an old sailor's home. Once you are Baker-acted, I'm sure you could get in there. Has Harry turned a bit more sour than usual? It is amazing that his candidate or party has won and he isn't jumping for joy in the streets. It's interesting that neither you nor Florida Jim have boats. What are you doing here? Apparently we are bothering you something terrible. Ask your shrink how to deal with it. You did make the appointment to see the lady at the bricklayers union, didn't you? You seem to be obsessed with my wife. She's in the middle of setting up a substantial research project right now. Maybe you could be a subject. Good for her. What about your appointment with the shrink. Has that been facilitated yet? |
Political: Let em fail
On Nov 14, 4:04*pm, Jim wrote:
Boater wrote: BAR wrote: Boater wrote: Jim wrote: wrote: On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. *Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. *They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. *The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. *No bailouts for Bull****. Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being considerable MORE expensive. Right! Hondas and Toyotas are the problem. Quality is the problem. Them scab non union workers is the problem. Ain't no union problems. Boy, that's a relief. BTW A billion dollars or so is going up in smoke around *8PM tonight. Hope yall is watchin. Life after the Navy, where you did not excel, must have been a hell of a letdown for you, FloridaJim. I've never seen anyone here work harder at being an idiot. Yes, yes, I know about Loogy and Just Wait, but they don't have to work at it. You're not that far from the Northeast Florida State Hospital at Macclenny, right? I believe it is the one that serves your county. You'd probably get better treatment there than at an old sailor's home. Once you are Baker-acted, I'm sure you could get in there. Has Harry turned a bit more sour than usual? It is amazing that his candidate or party has won and he isn't jumping for joy in the streets.. It's interesting that neither you nor Florida Jim have boats. What are you doing here? Apparently we are bothering you something terrible. Ask your shrink how to deal with it. You did make the appointment to see the lady at the bricklayers union, didn't you? Talking sense, unlike those dregs you tracked in here from alt.machines.cnc, alt.usenet.kooks, misc.survivalism, rec.crafts.metalworking, and the like. Of course they are fitting of your ilk. a most pathetic lot you carouse with. Indeed. |
Political: Let em fail
On Nov 14, 5:24*pm, Boater wrote:
Jim wrote: Boater wrote: BAR wrote: Boater wrote: Jim wrote: wrote: On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. *Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. *They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. *The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. *No bailouts for Bull****. Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being considerable MORE expensive. Right! Hondas and Toyotas are the problem. Quality is the problem. Them scab non union workers is the problem. Ain't no union problems. Boy, that's a relief. BTW A billion dollars or so is going up in smoke around *8PM tonight. Hope yall is watchin. Life after the Navy, where you did not excel, must have been a hell of a letdown for you, FloridaJim. I've never seen anyone here work harder at being an idiot. Yes, yes, I know about Loogy and Just Wait, but they don't have to work at it. You're not that far from the Northeast Florida State Hospital at Macclenny, right? I believe it is the one that serves your county. You'd probably get better treatment there than at an old sailor's home. Once you are Baker-acted, I'm sure you could get in there. Has Harry turned a bit more sour than usual? It is amazing that his candidate or party has won and he isn't jumping for joy in the streets. It's interesting that neither you nor Florida Jim have boats. What are you doing here? Apparently we are bothering you something terrible. Ask your shrink how to deal with it. You did make the appointment to see the lady at the bricklayers union, didn't you? You seem to be obsessed with my wife. She's in the middle of setting up a substantial research project right now. Maybe you could be a subject. Would that research happen to be carrying on the work of Dr. Walter J. Freeman? And if so, did she experiment on you first? I thought so. |
Political: Let em fail
"Frogwatch" wrote in message ... The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. Yep, well put. GM, Government Motors in the new USSR (United States Socialist Republic). I figure nationalizing the stock market comes after the banks and auto consolidation quiets down. But it will not get that far. If the government bails out GM, this is going to be one very long depression as every loser company in the world is going to be looking for government handouts. Maybe China will be importing from the USA in 10 years when the US economy dwindles to that of a third world nation because of debt and government fiscal mismanagement. Who is going to buy a Government Motors vehicle anyway? With cash they don't have or more government sponsored cheap credit they are not qualified for? And that assumes people want GM crap. And we wonder why the world has a liquidity problem....print money and charge it. My guess is before February the dem congress is going to float a 5 trillion dollar government bank program. Where the bank **is** the government with unlimited leverage to loan money at 1%.. |
Political: Let em fail
On Nov 14, 3:43*pm, Frogwatch wrote:
On Nov 14, 4:38 pm, "Eisboch" wrote: "Don White" wrote in message .. . Grossly overpaid incompetent management. *Unbelieveable the compensation packages they receive while the industry heads for the dumpster. Maybe. *But they are under a contract to be paid it, just like the members of the UAW employees. As horrifying and ridiculous as it is, it only becomes an issue when times are tough. *When GM was making money hand over fist, nobody cared what the top management made. * That's also when the employment contracts were written. I am not saying it's right. *It's just a matter of fact. * In good times the shareholders want the best management their money can buy to maximize their return on investment. * In bad times they just want good management. Eisboch Here is an interesting set of stats from TCS daily: "Here's a stat from my friend, blogger Mark Perry: Total compensation per hour for the big-three carmakers is $73.20. I would say that the posted rate is more than generous. Bloody well more than generous. |
Political: Let em fail
"BAR" wrote in message ... wrote: On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being considerable MORE expensive. GM vehicles are crap. Honda's and Toyota's are good quality vehicles. GM cannot put the effort, money, into quality due to the costs they have to pay for union labor and union benefits. Actually I blame both managemnt and the union. Management was too stupid to let it happen. Unuion, not my job to make this company sucessful. Take your pick. 30+ years of customer and shareholder abuse should come to an end. Someone will buy the plants and rehire real workers when the need arrises. What is the GM (Government Motors) going to do with all these cars no one wants or can afford? People do not have a problem paying a bit more for quality. My parents bought GM vehicles. When I saw what piles of crap they were I decided to never buy one. My dad did buy a Datsun 1200 Sedan back in '72, damn thing ran for ever. Had to keep riveting the body back together but the mechanicals of that car were great. It had more than 250,000 miles on it when the guy finally towed it away, it was still running too. I hear you on this. But found Ford to be better than GM or Chrysler. |
Political: Let em fail
"Boater" wrote in message ... BAR wrote: Boater wrote: BAR wrote: wrote: On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being considerable MORE expensive. GM vehicles are crap. Honda's and Toyota's are good quality vehicles. GM cannot put the effort, money, into quality due to the costs they have to pay for union labor and union benefits. Yep...you are indeed simple-minded. You are always looking at the problem from the labor perspective and immediately assign blame to management. You are the simple-minded idiot. You need to look at it from all angles and find the cause of the problem. Corporations are run by management, not by the workers. Lately, management has been incompetent. It's that simple. Lately? GM has been bleeding money for a generation. Anyone thinks that they can turn them around now must be totally delusional. |
Political: Let em fail
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... "Don White" wrote in message ... Grossly overpaid incompetent management. Unbelieveable the compensation packages they receive while the industry heads for the dumpster. Maybe. But they are under a contract to be paid it, just like the members of the UAW employees. As horrifying and ridiculous as it is, it only becomes an issue when times are tough. When GM was making money hand over fist, nobody cared what the top management made. That's also when the employment contracts were written. I am not saying it's right. It's just a matter of fact. In good times the shareholders want the best management their money can buy to maximize their return on investment. In bad times they just want good management. Eisboch GM will eventually become a case where there is a weakness in the current system. Shareholders have been crying for decades to get the board off their asses and get decent management. None came. Union rot and apathy spilled into management and down the toilet they go. When was the last time GM actually made money, I mean net in a whole year including write-downs? |
Political: Let em fail
"tin cup" wrote in message ... Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. The Unions didn't do squat. The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and gambling did them in along with the rest of us. How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6 mos. Now we know why some have a tin cup and others have a gold cup. Wall Street just prices the company to fair market value. If GM made a profit, a real total bottom line net profit in the last 30 years they would be debt free, had a 1/2 dozen stock splits and the company would be solid like a rock. But unions picked the company apart and management let it happen and the board members didn't do a damn thing. |
Political: Let em fail
On Nov 14, 6:50*pm, "Canuck57" wrote:
"tin cup" wrote in message ... Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. *Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. *They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. *The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. *No bailouts for Bull****. The Unions didn't do squat. The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and gambling did them in along with the rest of us. How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6 mos. Now we know why some have a tin cup and others have a gold cup. Wall Street just prices the company to fair market value. *If GM made a profit, a real total bottom line net profit in the last 30 years they would be debt free, had a 1/2 dozen stock splits and the company would be solid like a rock. But unions picked the company apart and management let it happen and the board members didn't do a damn thing. I do remember back in the mid 1970's. It seemed that the UAW would strike and picket GM at the drop of a hat. What for? Higher wages, of course! Then came the cars that were one third the size of the earlier part of the 70's, with even more shoddy material and workmanship, and cost about one third more than the larger machines of the earlier portion of the same decade. |
Political: Let em fail
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 13:43:34 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote: On Nov 14, 4:38 pm, "Eisboch" wrote: "Don White" wrote in message ... Grossly overpaid incompetent management. Unbelieveable the compensation packages they receive while the industry heads for the dumpster. Maybe. But they are under a contract to be paid it, just like the members of the UAW employees. As horrifying and ridiculous as it is, it only becomes an issue when times are tough. When GM was making money hand over fist, nobody cared what the top management made. That's also when the employment contracts were written. I am not saying it's right. It's just a matter of fact. In good times the shareholders want the best management their money can buy to maximize their return on investment. In bad times they just want good management. Eisboch Here is an interesting set of stats from TCS daily: "Here's a stat from my friend, blogger Mark Perry: Total compensation per hour for the big-three carmakers is $73.20. That's a 52 percent differential from Toyota's (Detroit South) $48 compensation (wages + health and retirement benefits). In fact, the oversized UAW-driven pay package for Detroit is 132 percent higher than that of the entire manufacturing sector of the U.S., which comes in at $31.59." So, the Dems want to bail out this bloated dinosaur? My kid is a union electrician, and he is pretty good at it, for thirty bucks an hour. Casady |
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