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Political: Let em fail
Boater wrote:
Jim wrote: Boater wrote: BAR wrote: Boater wrote: Jim wrote: wrote: On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being considerable MORE expensive. Right! Hondas and Toyotas are the problem. Quality is the problem. Them scab non union workers is the problem. Ain't no union problems. Boy, that's a relief. BTW A billion dollars or so is going up in smoke around 8PM tonight. Hope yall is watchin. Life after the Navy, where you did not excel, must have been a hell of a letdown for you, FloridaJim. I've never seen anyone here work harder at being an idiot. Yes, yes, I know about Loogy and Just Wait, but they don't have to work at it. You're not that far from the Northeast Florida State Hospital at Macclenny, right? I believe it is the one that serves your county. You'd probably get better treatment there than at an old sailor's home. Once you are Baker-acted, I'm sure you could get in there. Has Harry turned a bit more sour than usual? It is amazing that his candidate or party has won and he isn't jumping for joy in the streets. It's interesting that neither you nor Florida Jim have boats. What are you doing here? Apparently we are bothering you something terrible. Ask your shrink how to deal with it. You did make the appointment to see the lady at the bricklayers union, didn't you? You seem to be obsessed with my wife. She's in the middle of setting up a substantial research project right now. Maybe you could be a subject. If you're still on that Dr. thing, then you would be the subject to win her a cover story. Whatever she does, be glad she brings home the cash. |
Political: Let em fail
Don White wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message ... Boater wrote: wrote: On Nov 14, 3:12 pm, tin cup wrote: Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. The Unions didn't do squat. The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and gambling did them in along with the rest of us. How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6 mos. Labor costs are a big part of gm's problem. Unfortunately the unions, in their zeal, helped cause the problem. I mean let's face it, where else besides auto plants could you get $25 - $30 dollars an hour for semi-skilled labor. And the retirement programs are turning out to be extremely costly. They were not based on your condtributions into an account like today. They were fixed payouts based on your years of service. A lot of those semi-skilled laborers retired at a fairly young age and many get $50k or more a year in retirement. What's your point, that a representative of assembly line works met at the bargaining table with the employer of those workers and negotiated a contract? Negotiated a contract? I don't believe that for a minute. That's the way it is supposed to be. Who are we going to threaten with a strike this year? The fix we are in right now has nothing to do with union workers and everything to do with the landed aristocracy in this country of Wall Street financial manipulators and corporate executives, and the hands-off regulatory style of the Bush Administration. Even now, the crooks in the Bush Administration won't tell us who is getting the bail-out money. It has to do with union labor. It's a wonder you know how to tie your shoelaces in the morning. It's the greed of everyone involved in the auto industry....led by the example of the senior management and the stupidity of the American consumer always wanting bigger & better when durability, practicality, efficiency and quality should have been the criteria. What's the name of that big Canadian car company? |
Political: Let em fail
DK wrote:
Boater wrote: Jim wrote: Boater wrote: BAR wrote: Boater wrote: Jim wrote: wrote: On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being considerable MORE expensive. Right! Hondas and Toyotas are the problem. Quality is the problem. Them scab non union workers is the problem. Ain't no union problems. Boy, that's a relief. BTW A billion dollars or so is going up in smoke around 8PM tonight. Hope yall is watchin. Life after the Navy, where you did not excel, must have been a hell of a letdown for you, FloridaJim. I've never seen anyone here work harder at being an idiot. Yes, yes, I know about Loogy and Just Wait, but they don't have to work at it. You're not that far from the Northeast Florida State Hospital at Macclenny, right? I believe it is the one that serves your county. You'd probably get better treatment there than at an old sailor's home. Once you are Baker-acted, I'm sure you could get in there. Has Harry turned a bit more sour than usual? It is amazing that his candidate or party has won and he isn't jumping for joy in the streets. It's interesting that neither you nor Florida Jim have boats. What are you doing here? Apparently we are bothering you something terrible. Ask your shrink how to deal with it. You did make the appointment to see the lady at the bricklayers union, didn't you? You seem to be obsessed with my wife. She's in the middle of setting up a substantial research project right now. Maybe you could be a subject. If you're still on that Dr. thing, then you would be the subject to win her a cover story. Whatever she does, be glad she brings home the cash. The lady that runs the show there at union headquarters calls herself Grear. Is Harry claiming she is his wife? There isn't any Grear Hyphen Krause listed on the payroll. Krause must be blowing smoke again. |
Political: Let em fail
DK wrote:
Don White wrote: "BAR" wrote in message ... Boater wrote: wrote: On Nov 14, 3:12 pm, tin cup wrote: Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. The Unions didn't do squat. The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and gambling did them in along with the rest of us. How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6 mos. Labor costs are a big part of gm's problem. Unfortunately the unions, in their zeal, helped cause the problem. I mean let's face it, where else besides auto plants could you get $25 - $30 dollars an hour for semi-skilled labor. And the retirement programs are turning out to be extremely costly. They were not based on your condtributions into an account like today. They were fixed payouts based on your years of service. A lot of those semi-skilled laborers retired at a fairly young age and many get $50k or more a year in retirement. What's your point, that a representative of assembly line works met at the bargaining table with the employer of those workers and negotiated a contract? Negotiated a contract? I don't believe that for a minute. That's the way it is supposed to be. Who are we going to threaten with a strike this year? The fix we are in right now has nothing to do with union workers and everything to do with the landed aristocracy in this country of Wall Street financial manipulators and corporate executives, and the hands-off regulatory style of the Bush Administration. Even now, the crooks in the Bush Administration won't tell us who is getting the bail-out money. It has to do with union labor. It's a wonder you know how to tie your shoelaces in the morning. It's the greed of everyone involved in the auto industry....led by the example of the senior management and the stupidity of the American consumer always wanting bigger & better when durability, practicality, efficiency and quality should have been the criteria. What's the name of that big Canadian car company? Generel Motors Windsor Assembly Plant. See if Donny can spot the typo. |
Political: Let em fail
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Political: Let em fail
Don White wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message ... DK wrote: Don White wrote: "BAR" wrote in message ... Boater wrote: wrote: On Nov 14, 3:12 pm, tin cup wrote: Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. The Unions didn't do squat. The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and gambling did them in along with the rest of us. How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6 mos. Labor costs are a big part of gm's problem. Unfortunately the unions, in their zeal, helped cause the problem. I mean let's face it, where else besides auto plants could you get $25 - $30 dollars an hour for semi-skilled labor. And the retirement programs are turning out to be extremely costly. They were not based on your condtributions into an account like today. They were fixed payouts based on your years of service. A lot of those semi-skilled laborers retired at a fairly young age and many get $50k or more a year in retirement. What's your point, that a representative of assembly line works met at the bargaining table with the employer of those workers and negotiated a contract? Negotiated a contract? I don't believe that for a minute. That's the way it is supposed to be. Who are we going to threaten with a strike this year? The fix we are in right now has nothing to do with union workers and everything to do with the landed aristocracy in this country of Wall Street financial manipulators and corporate executives, and the hands-off regulatory style of the Bush Administration. Even now, the crooks in the Bush Administration won't tell us who is getting the bail-out money. It has to do with union labor. It's a wonder you know how to tie your shoelaces in the morning. It's the greed of everyone involved in the auto industry....led by the example of the senior management and the stupidity of the American consumer always wanting bigger & better when durability, practicality, efficiency and quality should have been the criteria. What's the name of that big Canadian car company? Generel Motors Windsor Assembly Plant. See if Donny can spot the typo. Spot this...typo boy! On a pass/fail basis that would clearly be a *fail*. Even I was surprised to see that. Donnie is dumber than I thought. That is still not a Canadian car company. |
Political: Let em fail
Eisboch wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: "Don White" wrote in message ... Grossly overpaid incompetent management. Unbelieveable the compensation packages they receive while the industry heads for the dumpster. Maybe. But they are under a contract to be paid it, just like the members of the UAW employees. As horrifying and ridiculous as it is, it only becomes an issue when times are tough. When GM was making money hand over fist, nobody cared what the top management made. That's also when the employment contracts were written. I am not saying it's right. It's just a matter of fact. In good times the shareholders want the best management their money can buy to maximize their return on investment. In bad times they just want good management. Eisboch You think there is a connection between "the best management" and the astronomical deals many of these execs get? I don't. My point was that nobody complained when times were good. Eisboch Oh, there were complaints aplenty. But probably not where you look. No offense. |
Political: Let em fail
"DK" wrote in message ... Don White wrote: "BAR" wrote in message ... Boater wrote: wrote: On Nov 14, 3:12 pm, tin cup wrote: Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. The Unions didn't do squat. The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and gambling did them in along with the rest of us. How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6 mos. Labor costs are a big part of gm's problem. Unfortunately the unions, in their zeal, helped cause the problem. I mean let's face it, where else besides auto plants could you get $25 - $30 dollars an hour for semi-skilled labor. And the retirement programs are turning out to be extremely costly. They were not based on your condtributions into an account like today. They were fixed payouts based on your years of service. A lot of those semi-skilled laborers retired at a fairly young age and many get $50k or more a year in retirement. What's your point, that a representative of assembly line works met at the bargaining table with the employer of those workers and negotiated a contract? Negotiated a contract? I don't believe that for a minute. That's the way it is supposed to be. Who are we going to threaten with a strike this year? The fix we are in right now has nothing to do with union workers and everything to do with the landed aristocracy in this country of Wall Street financial manipulators and corporate executives, and the hands-off regulatory style of the Bush Administration. Even now, the crooks in the Bush Administration won't tell us who is getting the bail-out money. It has to do with union labor. It's a wonder you know how to tie your shoelaces in the morning. It's the greed of everyone involved in the auto industry....led by the example of the senior management and the stupidity of the American consumer always wanting bigger & better when durability, practicality, efficiency and quality should have been the criteria. What's the name of that big Canadian car company? Canada Car, what else. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_Car_and_Foundry Sucking government and tax payers money like a fish in water until they finally sold it off and closed the plants. It was so good to have them off the hind tit, saving tax payers billions. A poster child of why government needs to stay out of business including subsidies, loans and the like. Much like GM is now, just a whole lot smaller. There was also Bricklin, an American who came to New Bruinswick because the government money was so easy. All wasted cash. Taxpayers would have been better off burning cash in the fireplace, at least they would be warm. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bricklin_SV-1 Government into auto/transportation business is pure 100% suicide for the cash you pour into it. How we never learn. Add them to the likes of Bombardier, DeHavelin, McDonnald Douglas. Pure sink holes for money to disappear. You know, like banks in the US promising not to use government money for executive bailouts. They will just us the money they would have used to run the company instead. Socialism sucks taxpayers down the rabbit hole. |
Political: Let em fail
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Political: Let em fail
"Frogwatch" wrote in message ... On Nov 14, 4:04 pm, Boater wrote: BAR wrote: tin cup wrote: Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. The Unions didn't do squat. The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and gambling did them in along with the rest of us. How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6 mos. Why should a guy putting lug nuts on a wheel get a six figure income? Why should you have any job? Being in the market for a new truck, I have looked at Consumer Reports and guess what, Toyota and Nissan are rated higher for quality than Ford or GM. Same is true for smaller SUVs like the Highlander. Back in the mid-80s, I read where auto workers were making $60K/yr for unskilled labor. No way the auto companies can make anything decent when they pay such outrageous wages for unskilled ppl. Let em die. No bailout for bull****. Harry needs to see who runs congress these days. It is the Dems who will not tell us where our money is going. It is the Dems that caused this problem, Dodd, Frank and Reid. Hang em from a lamppost along with their false messiah. Yep. The dems screwed it up and then get control of the works. Going to be a long depression/recession. |
Political: Let em fail
wrote in message ... On Nov 14, 6:50 pm, "Canuck57" wrote: "tin cup" wrote in message ... Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. The Unions didn't do squat. The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and gambling did them in along with the rest of us. How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6 mos. Now we know why some have a tin cup and others have a gold cup. Wall Street just prices the company to fair market value. If GM made a profit, a real total bottom line net profit in the last 30 years they would be debt free, had a 1/2 dozen stock splits and the company would be solid like a rock. But unions picked the company apart and management let it happen and the board members didn't do a damn thing. I do remember back in the mid 1970's. It seemed that the UAW would strike and picket GM at the drop of a hat. What for? Higher wages, of course! Then came the cars that were one third the size of the earlier part of the 70's, with even more shoddy material and workmanship, and cost about one third more than the larger machines of the earlier portion of the same decade. ---- But now they want their hands in non-union tax payers pockets from coast to coast, north and south. Think, why should a worker say in Oregon pay for an executive in Detroit? Why should a person cutting lumber in BC bail out an Ontario plant for a product they can't afford, don't like and don't want? And I am a capitalist. Government should be out of business period. GMs problems are simple, they are one or more of the following: - cost to much - unreliable crap compared to others - costs are out of control - crappy management and destructive unions - can't afford it - credit no good Solve the first 4 and their problems go away. The only way right now to do that is chapter 11. Recovery plan that will work. 1) Chapter 11 - Judge calls the shots. 2) If the plant or facility is losing money, bye-bye, close it with a 4-sale sign. Axe everyone, no transfers especially poisoned dysfunctional management. 3) If the plant is marginal, fire senior management and replace them from outside with real bottom like customer orientated business people. Give the union 72 hours to accept a new contract which simply states: "You can quit at any time, you will have a job if you stay in so long as this plant makes money in the month, every month. We reserve the right to close without notice. We now pay 1/2 (or less) of prior rates. Severance is not an option.". 4) Fire ALL senior executives including the CEO and board. A board member may stay provided they own more than 5% of the company in common stock or preferred shares. Otherwise they pack, no severance. 5) Liquidate excess inventory, fire sale. Raise cash to pay creditors in order. 6) Pension and other benefits, now a union issue. 7) New HR policies, no show, slackers, poor quality gets you fired. If union resists, close the facility. 8) Reorganize debt. Common shares, preferred shares and bond holders are likely out. 9) Anyone getting in the way, or hindering 1-8 above is in contempt of court. Set the hearing date and fire them. Problem solved. Lean and mean. Run it by the books for a year or two, then put it back on the market. Probably go for $100 share. I think I mean take control of the company. |
Political: Let em fail
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... "Frogwatch" wrote in message ... The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. GM and particularly Ford are making decent headway in some of their newer model introductions. Some of GM's products are rated as highly as anything from Toyota or higher in terms of quality and frequency of problems. Same with some of the new Ford products who also has been recognized as the leader of the American manufacturers in terms of actively revising their product line and getting with the program. This does not include many of the older models and trucks that are slowly being phased out. Eisboch And you look at most of the new Toyota's, Nissan's and they have also gotten bigger. Rather amazing, when you look at a 1955 Chevy, or even a 1964 GTO and see how much smaller than the cars of the last bunch of years. And the quality has come up a lot. My 2004 Chevy has been a great truck, for 90k miles. They did change a front hub at about 70k, but that may be because I forgot to take out of 4x4 and towed a couple hundred miles at freeway speeds. And how can the union not share the fault? They got a seat on the Chrysler Board of Directors in the 1980's. |
Political: Let em fail
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Political: Let em fail
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Political: Let em fail
"Calif Bill" wrote in message ... Yup, they are greedy, so are the unions. And excess greed is why they are in the dire straits they are in. Hey. I like Dire Straits. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5JkHBC5lDs Eisboch |
Political: Let em fail
"DK" wrote in message ... Don White wrote: "Jim" wrote in message ... DK wrote: Don White wrote: "BAR" wrote in message ... Boater wrote: wrote: On Nov 14, 3:12 pm, tin cup wrote: Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. The Unions didn't do squat. The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and gambling did them in along with the rest of us. How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6 mos. Labor costs are a big part of gm's problem. Unfortunately the unions, in their zeal, helped cause the problem. I mean let's face it, where else besides auto plants could you get $25 - $30 dollars an hour for semi-skilled labor. And the retirement programs are turning out to be extremely costly. They were not based on your condtributions into an account like today. They were fixed payouts based on your years of service. A lot of those semi-skilled laborers retired at a fairly young age and many get $50k or more a year in retirement. What's your point, that a representative of assembly line works met at the bargaining table with the employer of those workers and negotiated a contract? Negotiated a contract? I don't believe that for a minute. That's the way it is supposed to be. Who are we going to threaten with a strike this year? The fix we are in right now has nothing to do with union workers and everything to do with the landed aristocracy in this country of Wall Street financial manipulators and corporate executives, and the hands-off regulatory style of the Bush Administration. Even now, the crooks in the Bush Administration won't tell us who is getting the bail-out money. It has to do with union labor. It's a wonder you know how to tie your shoelaces in the morning. It's the greed of everyone involved in the auto industry....led by the example of the senior management and the stupidity of the American consumer always wanting bigger & better when durability, practicality, efficiency and quality should have been the criteria. What's the name of that big Canadian car company? Generel Motors Windsor Assembly Plant. See if Donny can spot the typo. Spot this...typo boy! On a pass/fail basis that would clearly be a *fail*. Even I was surprised to see that. Donnie is dumber than I thought. That is still not a Canadian car company. The vast majority of our auto plants are branches of international companies..such as GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda etc. There is a small company producing electric vehicles that aren't cleared for use on canadian roads. Here's some interesting data from 2002... http://www.ic.gc.ca/epic/site/auto-a...613e.html#MOTO |
Political: Let em fail
"Canuck57" wrote in message ... GMs problems are simple, they are one or more of the following: - cost to much - unreliable crap compared to others - costs are out of control - crappy management and destructive unions - can't afford it - credit no good Solve the first 4 and their problems go away. The only way right now to do that is chapter 11. Recovery plan that will work. 1) Chapter 11 - Judge calls the shots. 2) If the plant or facility is losing money, bye-bye, close it with a 4-sale sign. Axe everyone, no transfers especially poisoned dysfunctional management. 3) If the plant is marginal, fire senior management and replace them from outside with real bottom like customer orientated business people. Give the union 72 hours to accept a new contract which simply states: "You can quit at any time, you will have a job if you stay in so long as this plant makes money in the month, every month. We reserve the right to close without notice. We now pay 1/2 (or less) of prior rates. Severance is not an option.". 4) Fire ALL senior executives including the CEO and board. A board member may stay provided they own more than 5% of the company in common stock or preferred shares. Otherwise they pack, no severance. 5) Liquidate excess inventory, fire sale. Raise cash to pay creditors in order. 6) Pension and other benefits, now a union issue. 7) New HR policies, no show, slackers, poor quality gets you fired. If union resists, close the facility. 8) Reorganize debt. Common shares, preferred shares and bond holders are likely out. 9) Anyone getting in the way, or hindering 1-8 above is in contempt of court. Set the hearing date and fire them. Problem solved. Lean and mean. Run it by the books for a year or two, then put it back on the market. Probably go for $100 share. I think I mean take control of the company. I like your style. I don't think I want to work for you though ... :-) Eisboch |
Political: Let em fail
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... "Canuck57" wrote in message ... GMs problems are simple, they are one or more of the following: - cost to much - unreliable crap compared to others - costs are out of control - crappy management and destructive unions - can't afford it - credit no good Solve the first 4 and their problems go away. The only way right now to do that is chapter 11. Recovery plan that will work. 1) Chapter 11 - Judge calls the shots. 2) If the plant or facility is losing money, bye-bye, close it with a 4-sale sign. Axe everyone, no transfers especially poisoned dysfunctional management. 3) If the plant is marginal, fire senior management and replace them from outside with real bottom like customer orientated business people. Give the union 72 hours to accept a new contract which simply states: "You can quit at any time, you will have a job if you stay in so long as this plant makes money in the month, every month. We reserve the right to close without notice. We now pay 1/2 (or less) of prior rates. Severance is not an option.". 4) Fire ALL senior executives including the CEO and board. A board member may stay provided they own more than 5% of the company in common stock or preferred shares. Otherwise they pack, no severance. 5) Liquidate excess inventory, fire sale. Raise cash to pay creditors in order. 6) Pension and other benefits, now a union issue. 7) New HR policies, no show, slackers, poor quality gets you fired. If union resists, close the facility. 8) Reorganize debt. Common shares, preferred shares and bond holders are likely out. 9) Anyone getting in the way, or hindering 1-8 above is in contempt of court. Set the hearing date and fire them. Problem solved. Lean and mean. Run it by the books for a year or two, then put it back on the market. Probably go for $100 share. I think I mean take control of the company. I like your style. I don't think I want to work for you though ... :-) Eisboch But your job would be secure. In tough times and no debt I could afford to keep the good people on board. |
Political: Let em fail
Don White wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message ... Boater wrote: wrote: On Nov 14, 3:12 pm, tin cup wrote: Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. The Unions didn't do squat. The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and gambling did them in along with the rest of us. How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6 mos. Labor costs are a big part of gm's problem. Unfortunately the unions, in their zeal, helped cause the problem. I mean let's face it, where else besides auto plants could you get $25 - $30 dollars an hour for semi-skilled labor. And the retirement programs are turning out to be extremely costly. They were not based on your condtributions into an account like today. They were fixed payouts based on your years of service. A lot of those semi-skilled laborers retired at a fairly young age and many get $50k or more a year in retirement. What's your point, that a representative of assembly line works met at the bargaining table with the employer of those workers and negotiated a contract? Negotiated a contract? I don't believe that for a minute. That's the way it is supposed to be. Who are we going to threaten with a strike this year? The fix we are in right now has nothing to do with union workers and everything to do with the landed aristocracy in this country of Wall Street financial manipulators and corporate executives, and the hands-off regulatory style of the Bush Administration. Even now, the crooks in the Bush Administration won't tell us who is getting the bail-out money. It has to do with union labor. It's a wonder you know how to tie your shoelaces in the morning. Loafers! It's the greed of everyone involved in the auto industry....led by the example of the senior management and the stupidity of the American consumer always wanting bigger & better when durability, practicality, efficiency and quality should have been the criteria. Why should a guy putting lug nuts on a wheel get paid a six figure income? |
Political: Let em fail
DK wrote:
Don White wrote: "BAR" wrote in message ... Boater wrote: wrote: On Nov 14, 3:12 pm, tin cup wrote: Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. The Unions didn't do squat. The bean counters and Wall Street's demand for maximum spread and gambling did them in along with the rest of us. How come you idiots keep blaming American workers whether they are in a union or not. Obviously you are running a quicker mart or whatever and paying your wage slaves 7.50 an hour no benefits and fire them before 6 mos. Labor costs are a big part of gm's problem. Unfortunately the unions, in their zeal, helped cause the problem. I mean let's face it, where else besides auto plants could you get $25 - $30 dollars an hour for semi-skilled labor. And the retirement programs are turning out to be extremely costly. They were not based on your condtributions into an account like today. They were fixed payouts based on your years of service. A lot of those semi-skilled laborers retired at a fairly young age and many get $50k or more a year in retirement. What's your point, that a representative of assembly line works met at the bargaining table with the employer of those workers and negotiated a contract? Negotiated a contract? I don't believe that for a minute. That's the way it is supposed to be. Who are we going to threaten with a strike this year? The fix we are in right now has nothing to do with union workers and everything to do with the landed aristocracy in this country of Wall Street financial manipulators and corporate executives, and the hands-off regulatory style of the Bush Administration. Even now, the crooks in the Bush Administration won't tell us who is getting the bail-out money. It has to do with union labor. It's a wonder you know how to tie your shoelaces in the morning. It's the greed of everyone involved in the auto industry....led by the example of the senior management and the stupidity of the American consumer always wanting bigger & better when durability, practicality, efficiency and quality should have been the criteria. What's the name of that big Canadian car company? GMFordChrysler of the USA |
Political: Let em fail
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message ... Yup, they are greedy, so are the unions. And excess greed is why they are in the dire straits they are in. Hey. I like Dire Straits. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5JkHBC5lDs Eisboch I was going to comment in the post on Dire Straits. Still one of my favorites. |
Political: Let em fail
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message ... Yup, they are greedy, so are the unions. And excess greed is why they are in the dire straits they are in. Hey. I like Dire Straits. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5JkHBC5lDs Eisboch Also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB3b1W6rEDw |
Political: Let em fail
"Jim" wrote in message ... Canuck57 wrote: "Boater" wrote in message ... BAR wrote: Boater wrote: BAR wrote: wrote: On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch wrote: The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for Bull****. Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being considerable MORE expensive. GM vehicles are crap. Honda's and Toyota's are good quality vehicles. GM cannot put the effort, money, into quality due to the costs they have to pay for union labor and union benefits. Yep...you are indeed simple-minded. You are always looking at the problem from the labor perspective and immediately assign blame to management. You are the simple-minded idiot. You need to look at it from all angles and find the cause of the problem. Corporations are run by management, not by the workers. Lately, management has been incompetent. It's that simple. Lately? GM has been bleeding money for a generation. Anyone thinks that they can turn them around now must be totally delusional. That would be our boy Harold of neverland. Nope. |
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