wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.

Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non
union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being
considerable MORE expensive.


GM vehicles are crap. Honda's and Toyota's are good quality vehicles. GM
cannot put the effort, money, into quality due to the costs they have to
pay for union labor and union benefits.

People do not have a problem paying a bit more for quality. My parents
bought GM vehicles. When I saw what piles of crap they were I decided to
never buy one. My dad did buy a Datsun 1200 Sedan back in '72, damn
thing ran for ever. Had to keep riveting the body back together but the
mechanicals of that car were great. It had more than 250,000 miles on it
when the guy finally towed it away, it was still running too.

BAR wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.

Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non
union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being
considerable MORE expensive.

GM vehicles are crap. Honda's and Toyota's are good quality vehicles. GM
cannot put the effort, money, into quality due to the costs they have to
pay for union labor and union benefits.


Yep...you are indeed simple-minded.

Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.

Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non
union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being
considerable MORE expensive.

GM vehicles are crap. Honda's and Toyota's are good quality vehicles.
GM cannot put the effort, money, into quality due to the costs they
have to pay for union labor and union benefits.


Yep...you are indeed simple-minded.

You are always looking at the problem from the labor perspective and
immediately assign blame to management. You are the simple-minded idiot.

You need to look at it from all angles and find the cause of the problem.

BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.

Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non
union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being
considerable MORE expensive.

GM vehicles are crap. Honda's and Toyota's are good quality vehicles.
GM cannot put the effort, money, into quality due to the costs they
have to pay for union labor and union benefits.


Yep...you are indeed simple-minded.

You are always looking at the problem from the labor perspective and
immediately assign blame to management. You are the simple-minded idiot.

You need to look at it from all angles and find the cause of the problem.


Corporations are run by management, not by the workers. Lately,
management has been incompetent. It's that simple.

"Boater" wrote in message
...
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.

Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non
union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being
considerable MORE expensive.

GM vehicles are crap. Honda's and Toyota's are good quality vehicles.
GM cannot put the effort, money, into quality due to the costs they
have to pay for union labor and union benefits.


Yep...you are indeed simple-minded.

You are always looking at the problem from the labor perspective and
immediately assign blame to management. You are the simple-minded idiot.

You need to look at it from all angles and find the cause of the problem.


Corporations are run by management, not by the workers. Lately, management
has been incompetent. It's that simple.


Grossly overpaid incompetent management. Unbelieveable the compensation
packages they receive while the industry heads for the dumpster.

"Don White" wrote in message
...



Grossly overpaid incompetent management. Unbelieveable the compensation
packages they receive while the industry heads for the dumpster.


Maybe. But they are under a contract to be paid it, just like the members
of the UAW employees.

As horrifying and ridiculous as it is, it only becomes an issue when times
are tough. When GM was making money hand over fist, nobody cared what the
top management made. That's also when the employment contracts were
written.

I am not saying it's right. It's just a matter of fact. In good times the
shareholders want the best management their money can buy to maximize their
return on investment. In bad times they just want good management.

Eisboch

On Nov 14, 4:38 pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message

...



Grossly overpaid incompetent management. Unbelieveable the compensation
packages they receive while the industry heads for the dumpster.

Maybe. But they are under a contract to be paid it, just like the members
of the UAW employees.

As horrifying and ridiculous as it is, it only becomes an issue when times
are tough. When GM was making money hand over fist, nobody cared what the
top management made. That's also when the employment contracts were
written.

I am not saying it's right. It's just a matter of fact. In good times the
shareholders want the best management their money can buy to maximize their
return on investment. In bad times they just want good management.

Eisboch

Here is an interesting set of stats from TCS daily:

"Here's a stat from my friend, blogger Mark Perry: Total compensation
per hour for the big-three carmakers is $73.20. That's a 52 percent
differential from Toyota's (Detroit South) $48 compensation (wages +
health and retirement benefits). In fact, the oversized UAW-driven pay
package for Detroit is 132 percent higher than that of the entire
manufacturing sector of the U.S., which comes in at $31.59."

So, the Dems want to bail out this bloated dinosaur?

Eisboch wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...


Grossly overpaid incompetent management. Unbelieveable the compensation
packages they receive while the industry heads for the dumpster.


Maybe. But they are under a contract to be paid it, just like the members
of the UAW employees.

As horrifying and ridiculous as it is, it only becomes an issue when times
are tough. When GM was making money hand over fist, nobody cared what the
top management made. That's also when the employment contracts were
written.

I am not saying it's right. It's just a matter of fact. In good times the
shareholders want the best management their money can buy to maximize their
return on investment. In bad times they just want good management.

Eisboch




You think there is a connection between "the best management" and the
astronomical deals many of these execs get? I don't.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Don White" wrote in message
...



Grossly overpaid incompetent management. Unbelieveable the compensation
packages they receive while the industry heads for the dumpster.


Maybe. But they are under a contract to be paid it, just like the members
of the UAW employees.

As horrifying and ridiculous as it is, it only becomes an issue when times
are tough. When GM was making money hand over fist, nobody cared what the
top management made. That's also when the employment contracts were
written.

I am not saying it's right. It's just a matter of fact. In good times
the shareholders want the best management their money can buy to maximize
their return on investment. In bad times they just want good management.

Eisboch

GM will eventually become a case where there is a weakness in the current
system. Shareholders have been crying for decades to get the board off
their asses and get decent management. None came. Union rot and apathy
spilled into management and down the toilet they go. When was the last time
GM actually made money, I mean net in a whole year including write-downs?

"Boater" wrote in message
...
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:03:32 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

The Dems want to give 25 Billion to their friends at GM while GM
builds the worst sorta crap I have ever seen. Their unions and
management deserve to fail for giving us such garbage. They have
designed the worst sort of vehicles that nobody wants when gas prices
are high and their quality is still on the bottom. The unions priced
themselves out of work and the management allowed short term thinking
that produced the gas hogs they cannot give away. No bailouts for
Bull****.

Unions and labor costs are not the problem, and never have been. Non
union made toyotas and Hondas sell in greater numbers, despite being
considerable MORE expensive.

GM vehicles are crap. Honda's and Toyota's are good quality vehicles.
GM cannot put the effort, money, into quality due to the costs they
have to pay for union labor and union benefits.


Yep...you are indeed simple-minded.

You are always looking at the problem from the labor perspective and
immediately assign blame to management. You are the simple-minded idiot.

You need to look at it from all angles and find the cause of the problem.

Corporations are run by management, not by the workers. Lately, management
has been incompetent. It's that simple.

Lately?

GM has been bleeding money for a generation.

Anyone thinks that they can turn them around now must be totally delusional.