I have a ProSine 2.0 inverter/charger which is a piece of crap, to put
it mildly. I've replaced the thing, under warranty, at least 4
times. Now it's dying again and it's out of warranty, so I need to
replace it again. *&^*!@

From what I understand, Xantrex owns the majority of inverter/charger
companies and is constructing their products in China. I've had
multiple people suggest to me that Chinese assembly is a major issue.
As a result I want to replace it with something that isn't made by a
Xantrex based company.

Does anyone have any suggestions for an inverter/charger which is
hopefully made in the US? I'm looking for 2000 watts inverting and
100+A charging 12V.

-- Geoff

GeoffSchultz wrote in news:e4b93ee5-
:

I have a ProSine 2.0 inverter/charger which is a piece of crap, to put
it mildly. I've replaced the thing, under warranty, at least 4
times. Now it's dying again and it's out of warranty, so I need to
replace it again. *&^*!@

From what I understand, Xantrex owns the majority of inverter/charger
companies and is constructing their products in China. I've had
multiple people suggest to me that Chinese assembly is a major issue.
As a result I want to replace it with something that isn't made by a
Xantrex based company.

Does anyone have any suggestions for an inverter/charger which is
hopefully made in the US? I'm looking for 2000 watts inverting and
100+A charging 12V.

-- Geoff


http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...roductDisplay?
storeId=10051&productId=100609433&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_src=
14110944&ci_sku=100609433&cm_mmc=1hd.com2froogle-_-product_feed-_-D25X-
_-100609433

http://tinyurl.com/54ucg7

2500 watts enough? Vector was bought by Black and Decker. This puppy
will kill the house batteries and melt the plates! $265, not $1200....

2500 watts / 12.5V = 200 Amps +!

Mount it right next to the batteries and use STARTER CABLES to connect
its big terminals straight to the house battery bank.

Now, there IS a neat little trick.....remote control!

Obviously, it's tiny power switch isn't switching 200A. Remove the end
panel where the on/off switch is and solder two small wires (lamp cord
works excellent and is really too big. Even smaller wire is fine but
lamp cord is dirt cheap.) Solder two small wires to the two terminals
on the power switch. If there is a 3rd terminal, that's a pilot lamp so
make SURE you have the two terminals that are the switch.

Take apart a six outlet terminal strip that has a power switch on it.

Remove the power wires from its switch...make sure that's the switch,
too, not the AC pilot light. Do NOT use a terminal strip with a lighted
switch as there is low voltage DC on our control wires, not AC the pilot
lighted switch was meant for. Get one with just a switch, no light.
The switch is in series with the outlets so hard wire the black wire to
the outlet side of the switch where we just took the wire off, leaving
the switch with NO WIRES ON IT.

After pulling in our control wires from the inverter, solder them to the
switch on the outlet strip. Add a separate 110VAC neon indicator next
to the switch, BUT NOT WIRED TO IT. Wire the indicator right across the
AC line coming from the inverter so we can see it's on and putting out
AC voltage.

VOILA! Remote controlled power strip! Lionheart's is at the chart
table to plug in all the computer toys. Don't forget to plug the AC
plug of the outlet strip into the inverter AC output so you can use the
outlets. Run additional loads out the other 4 outlets of this to other
non-controlling or controlling outlet strips in handy places. As the
controlling switches are all in parallel, you can have as many as you
have strips for, but all of them will have to go OFF to shut down the
inverter....LEAVE THE INVERTER'S OWN SWITCH TO OFF! It's handing to
have them all with control switches so you don't have to go to where the
one switch is....or be fumbling around in the battery box under the deck
to turn the damned thing on without remote controls.

PS - You don't need to tell anyone on the dock the new inverter is a
Black and Decker from Home Depot.....It's best not to mention that to
some yachtie who just spent $1695 for his Xantrex that isn't a bit
better than yours.... Just in case he sees it when you're servicing
batteries, put a piece of black tape over the logo and nameplate so he
can't identify it....(c;

Now, be a good boy and buy a SEPARATE battery charger....25A should be
enough....automatic shutoff....like:

http://www.battery-chargers.com/catalog/28.pdf
JAC2512, the 25A 12V charger should do very nicely. Schauer chargers
are made in Cincinatti by Americans. I have one Schauer that's 30 years
old...works great...SCR but not fully automatic like this one. You
won't be pulling 500A at the dock as the inverter will be off. This
charger will let you keep the fridges and power the 12V lights no sweat.
The 50A model takes too much AC power...which on this webpage is a total
mistake and needs proofreading. The house batteries will charge nicely
on this 25A smart charger. Buy the little automatic 1.5A automatic
shutoff trickle charger for the starting battery, too, just to keep it
topped off. Those are at Walmart for peanuts.

Separate units make lots more sense because if the inverter fails,
you're not out for the other unit, too! It's why we don't buy huge
console stereos with TVs in them any more....Components only....just
replace one component, not the whole thing when the TV dies.

Again, don't mention to Mr Xantrex down the dock what you paid for it
and where you got it.....No need to rub his nose in it, you know...(c;

Get a Victron Multiplus 12/3000/120 with remote. Full sine wave from
inverter. Brilliant piece of kit and will operate as a UPS, an
inverter to parallel with mains supply if on low shore current. Fully
configurable by software on a PC and network cable. Can parallel
units for more AC/charging or even put 3 together to make 3 phase!
Probably pricey, but cheaper than Mastervolt and far better/more
reliable that cheap individual units from Taiwan.

http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/...1000-D-bUS.pdf

What I'm really looking for is a combined inverter charger with large
charging capacity. The inverting side isn't very important. Right
now I'm running off of a 300w Tripp-lite that I have on board for just
such occassions. It's plugged into a cigarette lighter and runs the
TV just fine. That's about the only device that I really care about
powering from an inverter. On occassion, maybe the microwave for
short periods, but that's rare. I don't have a lot of space to add
another unit, so a combined unit is fine. Access to the unit is very
difficult, so automatic switchover from shore power to inverter mode
is required.

Charging capacity is key. I want 100+A capacity so that when I do run
my generator that it's charging my (2) 8Ds quickly. 25A won't cut
it. On days when my wind/solar isn't generating much, I can recharge
the batteries by running the generator twice a day for 1 hour.

CS: Thanks for the pointer to the Victron Multiplus. It looks quite
capable, but I can't find any pricing. However, I see that there are
dealers in Canada, and one that's near me.

-- Geoff

In article
,
GeoffSchultz wrote:

I have a ProSine 2.0 inverter/charger which is a piece of crap, to put
it mildly. I've replaced the thing, under warranty, at least 4
times. Now it's dying again and it's out of warranty, so I need to
replace it again. *&^*!@

From what I understand, Xantrex owns the majority of inverter/charger
companies and is constructing their products in China. I've had
multiple people suggest to me that Chinese assembly is a major issue.
As a result I want to replace it with something that isn't made by a
Xantrex based company.

Does anyone have any suggestions for an inverter/charger which is
hopefully made in the US? I'm looking for 2000 watts inverting and
100+A charging 12V.

-- Geoff

Try Googling OutBack Power Systems. These are the guys that were
the Engineering Design Group at Trace, when Xantrex purchased Trace.
They soon got fed up with Xantrex, and "Walked out the back door,
down the street about two blocks", and started their own out fit.
Hence the name OutBack Power Systems. They were the designers of the
Trace U, DR, and SW Series Inverters, which are the backbone of the
Trace Product Line. Their new stuff is exactly what your looking for,
and they have the Old Trace Customer Service that Trace used to be famous
for. Their products are TOP of the Line, but you get what you pay for.
I have U, DR and SW Trace Inverters and have "Close Neighbors"
(close = 10 Sq Miles) that have the newer OutBack Systems. All very
good stuff.

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

GeoffSchultz wrote in news:df328769-b664-
:

it's charging my (2) 8Ds quickly.

Sorry......as this is chemically impossible. 25A is more than enough to
charge a pair of 8Ds at their normal rate of charge.

A 100A charger is NOT going to put out 100A on these batteries for more
than a few minutes! Lead acid batteries just don't charge like that.

On Jul 26, 11:04*pm, Larry wrote:
GeoffSchultz wrote in news:df328769-b664-
:

it's charging my (2) 8Ds quickly.

Sorry......as this is chemically impossible. *25A is more than enough to
charge a pair of 8Ds at their normal rate of charge.

A 100A charger is NOT going to put out 100A on these batteries for more
than a few minutes! *Lead acid batteries just don't charge like that.

Sorry, but years of actual experience with these batteries argues with
your statement. Also, I've had extensive e-mail conversations with
the engineer responsible for the design of these batteries and he also
would disagree with you. According to Caterpiller, who makes my
153-5720 batteries, the charging rate should not exceed 5% of the CCA,
which is 1500 A per battery. That 3000 CCA total or a max charging
rate of 150A.

I have a display that shows the numeric charging rates and I see the
charging rate start out at ~110A and then rapidly drops down once the
charging voltage reaches 14.2V. It easily takes 45 minutes or more
before I see the charging rate drops below 25A. If you spend you life
ties up to shore, 25A is probably a fine charging rate. However, when
cruising and charging off of a generator, that wouldn't work. Also
considering that I've gotten 5 years out of these batteries and
they're still running fine, I'm happy and think that I haven't damaged
them by my charging regiment.

-- Geoff

GeoffSchultz wrote in news:23fd18df-7c36-
:

According to Caterpiller, who makes my
153-5720 batteries, the charging rate should not exceed 5% of the CCA,
which is 1500 A per battery. That 3000 CCA total or a max charging
rate of 150A.



All wet. DEEP CYCLE house batteries with a low count of really thick
plates you eat away slowly with load are NOT Caterpillar starting batteries
that have huge cranking capacity for a few seconds because they have
massive arrays of really THIN plates creating massive surface areas.

They aren't even the same batteries!

Yeah, you can charge huge diesel cranking batteries in a half hour with a
massive charger because they have MASSIVE SURFACE AREAS to charge!

You CANNOT charge DEEP CYCLE, thick plated, much less surface area
batteries in this manner....another whole different animal entirely.

But, it's your boat. Buy the biggest goddamned charger on the planet and
charge the Deep Cycles with it at 25VDC in 10 minutes....

cavelamb himself wrote in
m:

http://www.outbackinverters.com/product2.htm

None of you have any problem getting 4KW of inverter power. That's not the
problem. NONE of you has enough BATTERY to run it or enough charging to
keep it charged.

GeoffSchultz wrote:
I have a ProSine 2.0 inverter/charger which is a piece of crap, to put
it mildly. I've replaced the thing, under warranty, at least 4
times. Now it's dying again and it's out of warranty, so I need to
replace it again. *&^*!@

From what I understand, Xantrex owns the majority of inverter/charger
companies and is constructing their products in China. I've had
multiple people suggest to me that Chinese assembly is a major issue.
As a result I want to replace it with something that isn't made by a
Xantrex based company.

Does anyone have any suggestions for an inverter/charger which is
hopefully made in the US? I'm looking for 2000 watts inverting and
100+A charging 12V.

-- Geoff



An article in this month's Circuit Cellar about living and working "off
the grid" (which is pretty close to home here) discussed this one.

http://www.outbackinverters.com/product2.htm

Call for the "down under" price ?!?


--

Richard

(remove the X to email)