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#1
posted to rec.boats.electronics
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Raymarine Autopilot does not handle my a-spinnaker
With my a-spinnaker up in 6 knots of breeze I have no problem with my
autopilot, but when I went out yesterday in 15 knots, my autopilot was not assertive enough to control the boat. When I set it to keep the 120 degrees off the wind, it completly failed to do that. Tending to head down, even after the chute collapsed, it wouldn't return to 120 degrees. If I had not taken control it would have jibbed. When instead I set a specific course, it headed up (slowly at first), not using enough rudder to prevent the boat from heading up and not reacting at all to puffs that rounded the boat up faster. I repeated going to standby, turning my boat until about 115 degrees off the wind, and pressing AUTO again. Each time I repeated this, I experienced 1. The moment I press auto, she instantly reduces the amount of rudder I was giving by just a little bit, but enough to cause the boat to start heading up. 2. The autopilot eventually give more rudder, but reacts too slowly to prevent us from rounding into the wind. I have a ST-7001, S1G core pack + added gyro, and auto learn feature. Since the boat handles so differently under sail, then under motor, I wonder if the "autolearn" feature has taught itself to not be aggresive enough. What's the solution ? |
#2
posted to rec.boats.electronics
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Raymarine Autopilot does not handle my a-spinnaker
"b393capt" wrote in
oups.com: With my a-spinnaker up in 6 knots of breeze I have no problem with my autopilot, but when I went out yesterday in 15 knots, my autopilot was not assertive enough to control the boat. When I set it to keep the 120 degrees off the wind, it completly failed to do that. Tending to head down, even after the chute collapsed, it wouldn't return to 120 degrees. If I had not taken control it would have jibbed. When instead I set a specific course, it headed up (slowly at first), not using enough rudder to prevent the boat from heading up and not reacting at all to puffs that rounded the boat up faster. I repeated going to standby, turning my boat until about 115 degrees off the wind, and pressing AUTO again. Each time I repeated this, I experienced 1. The moment I press auto, she instantly reduces the amount of rudder I was giving by just a little bit, but enough to cause the boat to start heading up. 2. The autopilot eventually give more rudder, but reacts too slowly to prevent us from rounding into the wind. I have a ST-7001, S1G core pack + added gyro, and auto learn feature. Since the boat handles so differently under sail, then under motor, I wonder if the "autolearn" feature has taught itself to not be aggresive enough. What's the solution ? I would experiment with the Rudder Gain and Response settings. You probably need to increase the Reponse level. -- Geoff |
#3
posted to rec.boats.electronics
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Raymarine Autopilot does not handle my a-spinnaker
I would experiment with the Rudder Gain and Response settings. You
probably need to increase the Reponse level. Yes, those would certainly affect it. Do you have the installation manual for the autopilot? It details how to set these values during the Sea Trial Calibration. I did just the same thing last week for our S1 equipped powerboat. -Bill Kearney |
#4
posted to rec.boats.electronics
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Raymarine Autopilot does not handle my a-spinnaker
Yes,
I have the instructions, and have done the seatrial, the deviation result was 3. I have been happy with the results since. I had settled on a response level of 5 out of 9 (the gyro changes the range from 1-3, to 1-9), but did not try in the middle of my a-spinnaker troubles yesterday. Besed on this feedback, I will read up on Rudder Gain, and be ready to change that and Response next time this occurs. Dan Bill Kearney wrote: I would experiment with the Rudder Gain and Response settings. You probably need to increase the Reponse level. Yes, those would certainly affect it. Do you have the installation manual for the autopilot? It details how to set these values during the Sea Trial Calibration. I did just the same thing last week for our S1 equipped powerboat. -Bill Kearney |
#5
posted to rec.boats.electronics
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Raymarine Autopilot does not handle my a-spinnaker
b393capt wrote:
Yes, I have the instructions, and have done the seatrial, the deviation result was 3. I have been happy with the results since. I had settled on a response level of 5 out of 9 (the gyro changes the range from 1-3, to 1-9), but did not try in the middle of my a-spinnaker troubles yesterday. Besed on this feedback, I will read up on Rudder Gain, and be ready to change that and Response next time this occurs. Dan Bill Kearney wrote: I would experiment with the Rudder Gain and Response settings. You probably need to increase the Reponse level. Yes, those would certainly affect it. Do you have the installation manual for the autopilot? It details how to set these values during the Sea Trial Calibration. I did just the same thing last week for our S1 equipped powerboat. -Bill Kearney My memory of sailing a yawing boat under spinnaker is that anticipation of what the boat was going to do next was the main problem, but the old brainbox used to anticipate after a short period at the helm. With wind and sea state variations to contend with, it's asking a lot to program these into a piece of hardware, no matter what you do! Do computers really anticipate and react to what the future is about to bestow on us? Dennis. |
#6
posted to rec.boats.electronics
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Raymarine Autopilot does not handle my a-spinnaker
I don't think I am asking to much. The autopilot does a mighty fine job
(after I added the gyro) of keeping the boat steady in many sea states, including following seas. Dennis Pogson wrote: b393capt wrote: Yes, I have the instructions, and have done the seatrial, the deviation result was 3. I have been happy with the results since. I had settled on a response level of 5 out of 9 (the gyro changes the range from 1-3, to 1-9), but did not try in the middle of my a-spinnaker troubles yesterday. Besed on this feedback, I will read up on Rudder Gain, and be ready to change that and Response next time this occurs. Dan Bill Kearney wrote: I would experiment with the Rudder Gain and Response settings. You probably need to increase the Reponse level. Yes, those would certainly affect it. Do you have the installation manual for the autopilot? It details how to set these values during the Sea Trial Calibration. I did just the same thing last week for our S1 equipped powerboat. -Bill Kearney My memory of sailing a yawing boat under spinnaker is that anticipation of what the boat was going to do next was the main problem, but the old brainbox used to anticipate after a short period at the helm. With wind and sea state variations to contend with, it's asking a lot to program these into a piece of hardware, no matter what you do! Do computers really anticipate and react to what the future is about to bestow on us? Dennis. |
#7
posted to rec.boats.electronics
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Raymarine Autopilot does not handle my a-spinnaker
b393capt wrote:
With my a-spinnaker up in 6 knots of breeze I have no problem with my autopilot, but when I went out yesterday in 15 knots, my autopilot was not assertive enough to control the boat. When I set it to keep the 120 degrees off the wind, it completly failed to do that. Tending to head down, even after the chute collapsed, it wouldn't return to 120 degrees. If I had not taken control it would have jibbed. When instead I set a specific course, it headed up (slowly at first), not using enough rudder to prevent the boat from heading up and not reacting at all to puffs that rounded the boat up faster. I repeated going to standby, turning my boat until about 115 degrees off the wind, and pressing AUTO again. Each time I repeated this, I experienced 1. The moment I press auto, she instantly reduces the amount of rudder I was giving by just a little bit, but enough to cause the boat to start heading up. 2. The autopilot eventually give more rudder, but reacts too slowly to prevent us from rounding into the wind. I have a ST-7001, S1G core pack + added gyro, and auto learn feature. Since the boat handles so differently under sail, then under motor, I wonder if the "autolearn" feature has taught itself to not be aggresive enough. What's the solution ? Bump up the gain/rudder response. I used a Navico hydraulic pilot on my last boat (30' cutter). Way overkill but I really had to increase the gain when reaching with an oversize chute, even in flat water. Evan Gatehouse |
#8
posted to rec.boats.electronics
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Raymarine Autopilot does not handle my a-spinnaker
b393capt wrote:
With my a-spinnaker up in 6 knots of breeze I have no problem with my autopilot, but when I went out yesterday in 15 knots, my autopilot was not assertive enough to control the boat. When I set it to keep the 120 degrees off the wind, it completly failed to do that. Tending to head down, even after the chute collapsed, it wouldn't return to 120 degrees. If I had not taken control it would have jibbed. When instead I set a specific course, it headed up (slowly at first), not using enough rudder to prevent the boat from heading up and not reacting at all to puffs that rounded the boat up faster. I repeated going to standby, turning my boat until about 115 degrees off the wind, and pressing AUTO again. Each time I repeated this, I experienced 1. The moment I press auto, she instantly reduces the amount of rudder I was giving by just a little bit, but enough to cause the boat to start heading up. 2. The autopilot eventually give more rudder, but reacts too slowly to prevent us from rounding into the wind. I have a ST-7001, S1G core pack + added gyro, and auto learn feature. Since the boat handles so differently under sail, then under motor, I wonder if the "autolearn" feature has taught itself to not be aggresive enough. What's the solution ? As I understand you use your autopilot with a wind-vane and I am not even sure that, in this configuration, the signal from the gyro is used at all. If it is so, you should be aware that the wind-vane is sensitive to the direction and intensity solely of the "apparent wind"; it is a well known issue that wind steering has problems when going downwind due by the "funny" behavior of the vector composition of the real-wind plus the velocity-wind. Not to mention the wind disturbance at the vane produced by rolling and yawing which may be quite important in some situations. Beside this, as an old timer wind-sailor, I would never rely on an autopilot under spinnaker especially on a wind higher than, say, 10-12 knots. So I am afraid that the solution is: under spinnaker, switch off the autopilot and use a good helmsman... :-) Regards Daniel |
#9
posted to rec.boats.electronics
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Raymarine Autopilot does not handle my a-spinnaker
Daniele Fua wrote:
b393capt wrote: With my a-spinnaker up in 6 knots of breeze I have no problem with my autopilot, but when I went out yesterday in 15 knots, my autopilot was not assertive enough to control the boat. When I set it to keep the 120 degrees off the wind, it completly failed to do that. Tending to head down, even after the chute collapsed, it wouldn't return to 120 degrees. If I had not taken control it would have jibbed. When instead I set a specific course, it headed up (slowly at first), not using enough rudder to prevent the boat from heading up and not reacting at all to puffs that rounded the boat up faster. I repeated going to standby, turning my boat until about 115 degrees off the wind, and pressing AUTO again. Each time I repeated this, I experienced 1. The moment I press auto, she instantly reduces the amount of rudder I was giving by just a little bit, but enough to cause the boat to start heading up. 2. The autopilot eventually give more rudder, but reacts too slowly to prevent us from rounding into the wind. I have a ST-7001, S1G core pack + added gyro, and auto learn feature. Since the boat handles so differently under sail, then under motor, I wonder if the "autolearn" feature has taught itself to not be aggresive enough. What's the solution ? As I understand you use your autopilot with a wind-vane and I am not even sure that, in this configuration, the signal from the gyro is used at all. If it is so, you should be aware that the wind-vane is sensitive to the direction and intensity solely of the "apparent wind"; it is a well known issue that wind steering has problems when going downwind due by the "funny" behavior of the vector composition of the real-wind plus the velocity-wind. Not to mention the wind disturbance at the vane produced by rolling and yawing which may be quite important in some situations. Beside this, as an old timer wind-sailor, I would never rely on an autopilot under spinnaker especially on a wind higher than, say, 10-12 knots. So I am afraid that the solution is: under spinnaker, switch off the autopilot and use a good helmsman... :-) Regards Daniel I've already told him this but he has flatly rejected my contention that computers can't anticipate, which is what a good helmsman can do! You are wasting your time on this one. |
#10
posted to rec.boats.electronics
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Raymarine Autopilot does not handle my a-spinnaker
Dennis,
This was insulting. Dan Dennis Pogson wrote: I've already told him this but he has flatly rejected my contention that computers can't anticipate, which is what a good helmsman can do! You are wasting your time on this one. |
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