Holy"sheet"....!

"Gary Schafer" wrote in message
...
Ok since you are being persistent, this is how I see the antenna
getting into the mix. The guy mentioned grounding the SSB antenna and
since it doesn't seem that he is even close to being mentally
challenged, I would have taken his statement to mean he was concerned
about tying the SSB antenna ground system into the other ground
systems on the boat.
But it seems you wanted to make a big deal of his not being exactly
precise in his question. Now you come up with all sorts of off the
wall explanations of how antennas work and blame others for being
inept.

1st if you are interested, a grounded back stay can be made to work as
an efficient antenna just as well as any other type of grounded or
ungrounded antenna can. It all depends on how it is fed. But I don't
believe that was the question posed.

2nd, you can feel a little relieved as many people make the same
mistakes as you are making about how antennas radiate.
All antennas radiate all of their energy into the same "hemisphere" as
you call it. Where many make the mistake with vertical antennas is
looking at the radiation patterns drawn in many books and also some of
the old explanations of the ground as being "a mirror image" of the
vertical antenna and being the other half of it.
That is far from the truth. It was an elementary explanation of the
vertical compared to a dipoles operation but it is not how things
work.

All of the radiated power from a vertical comes from the vertical
element itself. The ground does not radiate as part of the antenna.

A dipole radiates the same amount of power as does a vertical antenna
that has the same efficiency. The radiation patterns are different
between the two types of antennas but there is no difference in total
energy radiated. A ground mounted vertical may have more ground losses
if there is an inefficient ground system for the antenna but then a
dipole also suffers from ground losses depending on how close to
ground it is mounted and its radiation pattern is also altered.

A counterpoise can be many configurations. 1/2 of a dipole antenna is
the counterpoise for the other half. Ground can be the counterpoise
for a vertical antenna. An elevated wire or set of wires can be a
counterpoise for a vertical antenna.

Regards
Gary




On 17 Dec 2005 12:32:22 -0800, "markvictor"
wrote:

I repeat "Read it again, Gary." the example I gave is an
illustration......read what it says and apply your thought process
instead of your reactionary ....If you did read the thread you would
know where the question developed...or perhaps you can find someone to
read it to you so you don't miss anything,since you admit in your post
that in fact you have not read it all.
And FYI, the illustration I used is derived from Ralph Holland's
Amateur Radfg 1996 ....


Well, I for one prefer the antenna "classics", such as Kraus (W8JK), Jasik,
and Terman. They include the math to back up their theory and PhD's.
Regarding HF SSB grounding, it is common practice to run 3 or 4" flat
copper/brass strap for a low impedance path for RF. Then close to the point
where the RF strap connects to the common boat ground point, to cut the
strap and bridge it with several HV ceramic disc capacitors, so RF is
conducted to ground, but not DC. This isolates the strap from the bonding
wiring. A common capacitor is type X7R Monolithic Ceramic 0.15 uF, Digi-Key
part number P4911-ND. See http://www.sailmail.com/grounds.htm Take a look at
Icom's web site under downloads and you will find an excellent reference on
RF grounding. http://www.icomamerica.com/downloads...ook/chptr8.pdf .
Other equipment manufacturers (SGC, etc. (sorry Bruce!)) have similar
articles available for download.
73
Doug K7ABX, another semi-retired senile old fart

"Doug" wrote in news:9oXsf.3764$nu6.3074
@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:

Regarding HF SSB grounding

Yes, good grounding is essential....

http://hawkins.pair.com/wado/wadotowrleg.jpg

"Doug" wrote in news:9oXsf.3764$nu6.3074
@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:

Regarding HF SSB grounding

A ham acquaintance was involved with a crazy preacher, Rev RG Stair, from
Walterboro, SC. The good Rev paid for a Canadian fishing trawler and
they installed this transmitter:
http://hawkins.pair.com/voanc/voanc07.jpg
from VOA into the fish hold amidships running off a 250KW diesel genset
welded to the main deck. Two self-supporting towers were welded to the
bow and stern. The antenna was a T cage antenna that terminated in a
feed through insulator rated at 100KV in a big hole in the hold's main
hatch over the transmitter's 600 ohm balanced output. One leg simply
open under the hatch inside the hold, the other leg going through the
insulator to the T cage outside. There was a "little RF" in the hold
because of this open wire feeder arrangement. I glowed blue when it was
lit off at 70KW output, over its rated output with all the safety
features jumpered out. AS you can see from my souvenir insulator, the
in-the-hold side that exploded right over my head, we had a little
flashover just above 40 meters...(c;


http://www.qrz.com/callsign/w4csc

The FCC confiscated it all from the good Reverend soon after the "testing
phase" and put a proud picture in the Charleston newspaper shoing the FCC
chief engineer-who-should-know-better holding a dangerous Heathkit DX-35
AM-CW 35 watt ham transmitter to the press cameras. FCC forgot to pay
Detyen's Shipyard for the crane service to remove the big transmitter,
several thousand dollars. Detyen's got even, I understand.

Great fun for a while....(c;

POWER IS OUR FRIEND!

In article . net,
"Doug" wrote:

"Gary Schafer" wrote in message
...
Ok since you are being persistent, this is how I see the antenna
getting into the mix. The guy mentioned grounding the SSB antenna and
since it doesn't seem that he is even close to being mentally
challenged, I would have taken his statement to mean he was concerned
about tying the SSB antenna ground system into the other ground
systems on the boat.
But it seems you wanted to make a big deal of his not being exactly
precise in his question. Now you come up with all sorts of off the
wall explanations of how antennas work and blame others for being
inept.

1st if you are interested, a grounded back stay can be made to work as
an efficient antenna just as well as any other type of grounded or
ungrounded antenna can. It all depends on how it is fed. But I don't
believe that was the question posed.

2nd, you can feel a little relieved as many people make the same
mistakes as you are making about how antennas radiate.
All antennas radiate all of their energy into the same "hemisphere" as
you call it. Where many make the mistake with vertical antennas is
looking at the radiation patterns drawn in many books and also some of
the old explanations of the ground as being "a mirror image" of the
vertical antenna and being the other half of it.
That is far from the truth. It was an elementary explanation of the
vertical compared to a dipoles operation but it is not how things
work.

All of the radiated power from a vertical comes from the vertical
element itself. The ground does not radiate as part of the antenna.

A dipole radiates the same amount of power as does a vertical antenna
that has the same efficiency. The radiation patterns are different
between the two types of antennas but there is no difference in total
energy radiated. A ground mounted vertical may have more ground losses
if there is an inefficient ground system for the antenna but then a
dipole also suffers from ground losses depending on how close to
ground it is mounted and its radiation pattern is also altered.

A counterpoise can be many configurations. 1/2 of a dipole antenna is
the counterpoise for the other half. Ground can be the counterpoise
for a vertical antenna. An elevated wire or set of wires can be a
counterpoise for a vertical antenna.

Regards
Gary




On 17 Dec 2005 12:32:22 -0800, "markvictor"
wrote:

I repeat "Read it again, Gary." the example I gave is an
illustration......read what it says and apply your thought process
instead of your reactionary ....If you did read the thread you would
know where the question developed...or perhaps you can find someone to
read it to you so you don't miss anything,since you admit in your post
that in fact you have not read it all.
And FYI, the illustration I used is derived from Ralph Holland's
Amateur Radfg 1996 ....


Well, I for one prefer the antenna "classics", such as Kraus (W8JK), Jasik,
and Terman. They include the math to back up their theory and PhD's.
Regarding HF SSB grounding, it is common practice to run 3 or 4" flat
copper/brass strap for a low impedance path for RF. Then close to the point
where the RF strap connects to the common boat ground point, to cut the
strap and bridge it with several HV ceramic disc capacitors, so RF is
conducted to ground, but not DC. This isolates the strap from the bonding
wiring. A common capacitor is type X7R Monolithic Ceramic 0.15 uF, Digi-Key
part number P4911-ND. See http://www.sailmail.com/grounds.htm Take a look at
Icom's web site under downloads and you will find an excellent reference on
RF grounding. http://www.icomamerica.com/downloads...ook/chptr8.pdf .
Other equipment manufacturers (SGC, etc. (sorry Bruce!)) have similar
articles available for download.
73
Doug K7ABX, another semi-retired senile old fart



Hey...what ever blows your skirt......

When did you go into "semi-retirded-ment"?.....

Geeeze we got a crowd of Old Gezzzer'a hang'en out here. You, "Me",
Lynn, Larry.... I have often wondered if Gary was in our age group.....



Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

Bruce in Alaska wrote in news:bruceg-
:

Geeeze we got a crowd of Old Gezzzer'a hang'en out here. You, "Me",
Lynn, Larry.... I have often wondered if Gary was in our age group.....



Bruce in alaska


The rest of them are too busy out making a living....(c;

Jan 18, 2006.....I'll be 60.........DAMMIT.

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Bruce in Alaska wrote in news:bruceg-
:

Geeeze we got a crowd of Old Gezzzer'a hang'en out here. You, "Me",
Lynn, Larry.... I have often wondered if Gary was in our age group.....



Bruce in alaska


The rest of them are too busy out making a living....(c;

Jan 18, 2006.....I'll be 60.........DAMMIT.

Just a kid...... Now from a really retired person or is it tired from
avionics and marine as well as teaching.

Leanne
USMC, ret

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 20:15:56 GMT, Bruce in Alaska
wrote:


73
Doug K7ABX, another semi-retired senile old fart



Hey...what ever blows your skirt......

When did you go into "semi-retirded-ment"?.....

Geeeze we got a crowd of Old Gezzzer'a hang'en out here. You, "Me",
Lynn, Larry.... I have often wondered if Gary was in our age group.....



Bruce in alaska

Hi Bruce,

Yea unfortunately I am getting up there too. I just turned 60. I beat
Larry by a month. I have been kind of retired for a few years but
keep thinking about doing something. I did some marine work back in
the early 70's. That's when there were a lot of konel and Northern
radios with the manual tuners.
I remember the first job I went on to tune one of those things. After
a few minutes of trial and error swapping caps and coil taps I started
to calculate what type circuit was needed, hooked it up that way and
it worked. The guy that was "showing me the ropes" couldn't believe
that you could quickly figure out the circuit and values needed to get
close without just blind trial and error.

Oh well, you know that goes back aways.

Regards
Gary

Gary Schafer wrote in
:

The guy that was "showing me the ropes" couldn't believe
that you could quickly figure out the circuit and values needed to get
close without just blind trial and error.



I believe the correct term for that is "smartass", right?...(c;

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 23:10:21 -0500, "Leanne" wrote:


"Larry" wrote in message
.. .
Bruce in Alaska wrote in news:bruceg-
:

Geeeze we got a crowd of Old Gezzzer'a hang'en out here. You, "Me",
Lynn, Larry.... I have often wondered if Gary was in our age group.....



Bruce in alaska


The rest of them are too busy out making a living....(c;

Jan 18, 2006.....I'll be 60.........DAMMIT.

Just a kid...... Now from a really retired person or is it tired from
avionics and marine as well as teaching.

Leanne
USMC, ret

Simper Fi, Mac-ette!
Mark E. Williams