In article ,
Gary Schafer wrote:



And yes I did read most of the thread. Quite amusing. I have no clue
what you are trying to say and I am sure many others also don't.

Regards
Gary



We all missed you Gary, nice to see you back again.......


Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 21:00:27 GMT, Bruce in Alaska
wrote:

In article ,
Gary Schafer wrote:



And yes I did read most of the thread. Quite amusing. I have no clue
what you are trying to say and I am sure many others also don't.

Regards
Gary



We all missed you Gary, nice to see you back again.......


Bruce in alaska

Hi Bruce,

It is nice to be back in warm Florida. Was in Wisconsin for awhile and
got to see some snow again. Nothing new for you though. :)

Nice to hear form you.

Regards
Gary

Ok since you are being persistent, this is how I see the antenna
getting into the mix. The guy mentioned grounding the SSB antenna and
since it doesn't seem that he is even close to being mentally
challenged, I would have taken his statement to mean he was concerned
about tying the SSB antenna ground system into the other ground
systems on the boat.
But it seems you wanted to make a big deal of his not being exactly
precise in his question. Now you come up with all sorts of off the
wall explanations of how antennas work and blame others for being
inept.

1st if you are interested, a grounded back stay can be made to work as
an efficient antenna just as well as any other type of grounded or
ungrounded antenna can. It all depends on how it is fed. But I don't
believe that was the question posed.

2nd, you can feel a little relieved as many people make the same
mistakes as you are making about how antennas radiate.
All antennas radiate all of their energy into the same "hemisphere" as
you call it. Where many make the mistake with vertical antennas is
looking at the radiation patterns drawn in many books and also some of
the old explanations of the ground as being "a mirror image" of the
vertical antenna and being the other half of it.
That is far from the truth. It was an elementary explanation of the
vertical compared to a dipoles operation but it is not how things
work.

All of the radiated power from a vertical comes from the vertical
element itself. The ground does not radiate as part of the antenna.

A dipole radiates the same amount of power as does a vertical antenna
that has the same efficiency. The radiation patterns are different
between the two types of antennas but there is no difference in total
energy radiated. A ground mounted vertical may have more ground losses
if there is an inefficient ground system for the antenna but then a
dipole also suffers from ground losses depending on how close to
ground it is mounted and its radiation pattern is also altered.

A counterpoise can be many configurations. 1/2 of a dipole antenna is
the counterpoise for the other half. Ground can be the counterpoise
for a vertical antenna. An elevated wire or set of wires can be a
counterpoise for a vertical antenna.

Regards
Gary




On 17 Dec 2005 12:32:22 -0800, "markvictor"
wrote:

I repeat "Read it again, Gary." the example I gave is an
illustration......read what it says and apply your thought process
instead of your reactionary ....If you did read the thread you would
know where the question developed...or perhaps you can find someone to
read it to you so you don't miss anything,since you admit in your post
that in fact you have not read it all.
And FYI, the illustration I used is derived from Ralph Holland's
Amateur Radfg 1996 ....

Read it again, gary....
And tell me, is a backstay vetical or horizontal...
and tell me, if you are using your backstay as the radiating element of
your antenna system, why then do you insulate it from ground?
regards,
markvictor

The only "ineptness" anyone is making accusations about is your
apparent inability to read an entire thread and comprehend it...
regards
markvictor

"exactly precise" is redundant...

"markvictor" wrote in
oups.com:

why then do you insulate it from ground?

Old habits are hard to die. You don't need to insulate the top of it,
just the feed point.....well, unless you run a wire in parallel with it
up 30' and attach the tuner ACROSS the backstay.

I used to take my Yaesu FT-900 and a Nye-Viking 3KW manual antenna tuner
to sea on Claire's Navie. That tuner will resonate almost any length
antenna to almost any impedance at high power. It's MUCH better made
than that little plastic Icom box with the tiny relays and crappy little
coils. This sucker is made for 40A of antenna current and has a coil to
take it.

I grounded the tuner through a jumper cable strap to the base of the
mainmast and fed the port side chainplate to the port shroud, which
wasn't grounded, shunt-feeding the mainmast and all the rigging attached
to it. As long as you didn't use it around 9.5 Mhz, where something
resonated enough to bite your hand holding the mike, even on 100 watts,
it got impressive signal reports on 20, 40 and 75 meter SSB from
offshore.

In the case of the little AT-130 autotuner (and its clones), you use an
insulated backstay because the autotuners have a limited range of
impedances they can actually resonate across the HF spectrum. It's just
easier on the non-technical amoung us.

And the fact that your aluminum mast is gonded ...why challenge the
working parameters of your tuner? It also prevents those tingles you
refer to when someone(yes, perhaps foolishly) comes in contact with
that backstay or mast while TXing... And I'm sure you realize that
despite what anyones opinion of it might be, that plastic AT-130 is the
most common tuner in the fleet these days...and works well enough with
an INSULATED backstay and efficient counterpoise....
regards
markvictor

bonded

On 18 Dec 2005 15:17:53 -0800, "markvictor"
wrote:

Read it again, gary....
And tell me, is a backstay vetical or horizontal...
and tell me, if you are using your backstay as the radiating element of
your antenna system, why then do you insulate it from ground?
regards,
markvictor

Well, now you see, Larry has shown you a couple of ways you can use a
grounded antenna.

Anything else you are wondering about?

Regards
Gary