On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:45:11 -0400, Jack Erbes wrote:

Larry wrote:

Anyone have any ideas? Thanks,

No friction clutches or drag adjustments on any of the cables or turning
spools? Maybe you could add one somewhere.

Jack

The cable is a single cable - push/pull. Not certain how I could change
that in any way. That said, there is no slack in it at all, so I am
wondering why rudder feedback is even needed.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/14/05 10:04:52 AM

"Larry" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:45:11 -0400, Jack Erbes wrote:

Larry wrote:

Anyone have any ideas? Thanks,

No friction clutches or drag adjustments on any of the cables or turning
spools? Maybe you could add one somewhere.

Jack

The cable is a single cable - push/pull. Not certain how I could change
that in any way. That said, there is no slack in it at all, so I am
wondering why rudder feedback is even needed.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/14/05 10:04:52 AM

Larry,
look at fitting something like the Raymarine ST3000 wheel pilot. This is as
fitted to my motorsailer with push-pull steering, and does not need a rudder
feedback. Also, the compass unit is in the control head, so only the control
head and drive motor fitted, with belt drive to the steering wheel.

The ST4000 (I believe) requires a separate compass unit.

Go to the Raymarine website for some more information.

regards,
Philip.

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:17:43 +0100, Philip wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:45:11 -0400, Jack Erbes wrote:

Larry wrote:

Anyone have any ideas? Thanks,

No friction clutches or drag adjustments on any of the cables or turning
spools? Maybe you could add one somewhere.

Jack

The cable is a single cable - push/pull. Not certain how I could change
that in any way. That said, there is no slack in it at all, so I am
wondering why rudder feedback is even needed.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/14/05 10:04:52 AM

Larry,
look at fitting something like the Raymarine ST3000 wheel pilot. This is as
fitted to my motorsailer with push-pull steering, and does not need a rudder
feedback. Also, the compass unit is in the control head, so only the control
head and drive motor fitted, with belt drive to the steering wheel.

The ST4000 (I believe) requires a separate compass unit.

Go to the Raymarine website for some more information.

regards,
Philip.

Thanks, Philip,

Well, I asked Raymarine and they said the ST3000 would not work, nor will
any unit they manufacture. He said that use of any autopilot with a jet
boat requires something which sends the cpu the actual position of the
rudder (jet in my case). Also, it would be extremely difficult to attach a
motor to the wheel as there is no room.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/15/05 11:32:52 AM

"Larry" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:17:43 +0100, Philip wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:45:11 -0400, Jack Erbes wrote:

Larry wrote:

Anyone have any ideas? Thanks,

No friction clutches or drag adjustments on any of the cables or
turning
spools? Maybe you could add one somewhere.

Jack

The cable is a single cable - push/pull. Not certain how I could change
that in any way. That said, there is no slack in it at all, so I am
wondering why rudder feedback is even needed.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/14/05 10:04:52 AM

Larry,
look at fitting something like the Raymarine ST3000 wheel pilot. This is
as
fitted to my motorsailer with push-pull steering, and does not need a
rudder
feedback. Also, the compass unit is in the control head, so only the
control
head and drive motor fitted, with belt drive to the steering wheel.

The ST4000 (I believe) requires a separate compass unit.

Go to the Raymarine website for some more information.

regards,
Philip.

Thanks, Philip,

Well, I asked Raymarine and they said the ST3000 would not work, nor will
any unit they manufacture. He said that use of any autopilot with a jet
boat requires something which sends the cpu the actual position of the
rudder (jet in my case). Also, it would be extremely difficult to attach
a
motor to the wheel as there is no room.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/15/05 11:32:52 AM

Larry,
I hear what they say, but my ST3000 has no feedback or any way of knowing
where the rudder is when I engage the drive. It just uses the compass to
keep a heading and adjust steering to keep on course.

It is a pity it will not fit, but other than this, I don't think the person
you spoke to actually knew the unit and its capability properly - if at all.

regards,
Philip

On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:58:50 +0100, Philip wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:17:43 +0100, Philip wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
news On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:45:11 -0400, Jack Erbes wrote:

Larry wrote:

Anyone have any ideas? Thanks,

No friction clutches or drag adjustments on any of the cables or
turning
spools? Maybe you could add one somewhere.

Jack

The cable is a single cable - push/pull. Not certain how I could change
that in any way. That said, there is no slack in it at all, so I am
wondering why rudder feedback is even needed.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/14/05 10:04:52 AM

Larry,
look at fitting something like the Raymarine ST3000 wheel pilot. This is
as
fitted to my motorsailer with push-pull steering, and does not need a
rudder
feedback. Also, the compass unit is in the control head, so only the
control
head and drive motor fitted, with belt drive to the steering wheel.

The ST4000 (I believe) requires a separate compass unit.

Go to the Raymarine website for some more information.

regards,
Philip.

Thanks, Philip,

Well, I asked Raymarine and they said the ST3000 would not work, nor will
any unit they manufacture. He said that use of any autopilot with a jet
boat requires something which sends the cpu the actual position of the
rudder (jet in my case). Also, it would be extremely difficult to attach
a
motor to the wheel as there is no room.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/15/05 11:32:52 AM

Larry,
I hear what they say, but my ST3000 has no feedback or any way of knowing
where the rudder is when I engage the drive. It just uses the compass to
keep a heading and adjust steering to keep on course.

It is a pity it will not fit, but other than this, I don't think the person
you spoke to actually knew the unit and its capability properly - if at all.

regards,
Philip

I agree with both. I'm in a bind in that I am willing to spend the money,
but ONLY if I can make something that works. I wish there were a way to
connect a plain ordinary Sport Pilot to my wheel as it does not require
rudder feedback and it will fit. That way I could test and see how bad it
really is. Likewise the ST3000. The guy to whom I spoke seemed concerned
that a jet boat tends to respond very quickly to changes in the tube
(corresponds with a rudder). If there were a way to vary the sensitivity
of the unit, I might gamble.... Again, thanks for your help, Philip.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/16/05 9:27:23 PM

"Larry" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:58:50 +0100, Philip wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:17:43 +0100, Philip wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
news On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:45:11 -0400, Jack Erbes wrote:

Larry wrote:

Anyone have any ideas? Thanks,

No friction clutches or drag adjustments on any of the cables or
turning
spools? Maybe you could add one somewhere.

Jack

The cable is a single cable - push/pull. Not certain how I could
change
that in any way. That said, there is no slack in it at all, so I am
wondering why rudder feedback is even needed.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/14/05 10:04:52 AM

Larry,
look at fitting something like the Raymarine ST3000 wheel pilot. This
is
as
fitted to my motorsailer with push-pull steering, and does not need a
rudder
feedback. Also, the compass unit is in the control head, so only the
control
head and drive motor fitted, with belt drive to the steering wheel.

The ST4000 (I believe) requires a separate compass unit.

Go to the Raymarine website for some more information.

regards,
Philip.

Thanks, Philip,

Well, I asked Raymarine and they said the ST3000 would not work, nor
will
any unit they manufacture. He said that use of any autopilot with a
jet
boat requires something which sends the cpu the actual position of the
rudder (jet in my case). Also, it would be extremely difficult to
attach
a
motor to the wheel as there is no room.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/15/05 11:32:52 AM

Larry,
I hear what they say, but my ST3000 has no feedback or any way of knowing
where the rudder is when I engage the drive. It just uses the compass to
keep a heading and adjust steering to keep on course.

It is a pity it will not fit, but other than this, I don't think the
person
you spoke to actually knew the unit and its capability properly - if at
all.

regards,
Philip

I agree with both. I'm in a bind in that I am willing to spend the money,
but ONLY if I can make something that works. I wish there were a way to
connect a plain ordinary Sport Pilot to my wheel as it does not require
rudder feedback and it will fit. That way I could test and see how bad it
really is. Likewise the ST3000. The guy to whom I spoke seemed concerned
that a jet boat tends to respond very quickly to changes in the tube
(corresponds with a rudder). If there were a way to vary the sensitivity
of the unit, I might gamble.... Again, thanks for your help, Philip.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/16/05 9:27:23 PM


Larry,
have a read of page 59 of
http://www.raymarine.com/raymarine/S...3000_wheel.pdf

Maybe it will allow you to set it to either fast or slow response.

My motor-sailer has a very quick response to the wheel, and the ST3000 copes
perfectly - except when I am sailing with a quarter or following wind. But
then again, I have a problem steering with that angle of wind!!

regards, and I hope you find something that will work
Philip,

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 21:45:21 +0100, Philip wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:58:50 +0100, Philip wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:17:43 +0100, Philip wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
news On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:45:11 -0400, Jack Erbes wrote:

Larry wrote:

Anyone have any ideas? Thanks,

No friction clutches or drag adjustments on any of the cables or
turning
spools? Maybe you could add one somewhere.

Jack

The cable is a single cable - push/pull. Not certain how I could
change
that in any way. That said, there is no slack in it at all, so I am
wondering why rudder feedback is even needed.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/14/05 10:04:52 AM

Larry,
look at fitting something like the Raymarine ST3000 wheel pilot. This
is
as
fitted to my motorsailer with push-pull steering, and does not need a
rudder
feedback. Also, the compass unit is in the control head, so only the
control
head and drive motor fitted, with belt drive to the steering wheel.

The ST4000 (I believe) requires a separate compass unit.

Go to the Raymarine website for some more information.

regards,
Philip.

Thanks, Philip,

Well, I asked Raymarine and they said the ST3000 would not work, nor
will
any unit they manufacture. He said that use of any autopilot with a
jet
boat requires something which sends the cpu the actual position of the
rudder (jet in my case). Also, it would be extremely difficult to
attach
a
motor to the wheel as there is no room.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/15/05 11:32:52 AM

Larry,
I hear what they say, but my ST3000 has no feedback or any way of knowing
where the rudder is when I engage the drive. It just uses the compass to
keep a heading and adjust steering to keep on course.

It is a pity it will not fit, but other than this, I don't think the
person
you spoke to actually knew the unit and its capability properly - if at
all.

regards,
Philip

I agree with both. I'm in a bind in that I am willing to spend the money,
but ONLY if I can make something that works. I wish there were a way to
connect a plain ordinary Sport Pilot to my wheel as it does not require
rudder feedback and it will fit. That way I could test and see how bad it
really is. Likewise the ST3000. The guy to whom I spoke seemed concerned
that a jet boat tends to respond very quickly to changes in the tube
(corresponds with a rudder). If there were a way to vary the sensitivity
of the unit, I might gamble.... Again, thanks for your help, Philip.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/16/05 9:27:23 PM

Larry,
have a read of page 59 of
http://www.raymarine.com/raymarine/S...3000_wheel.pdf

Maybe it will allow you to set it to either fast or slow response.

My motor-sailer has a very quick response to the wheel, and the ST3000 copes
perfectly - except when I am sailing with a quarter or following wind. But
then again, I have a problem steering with that angle of wind!!

regards, and I hope you find something that will work
Philip,

I'm beginning to think that I may have been given the wrong advice by
Raymarine. I realize, however, that it is doubtful that I can expect any
help from them. Perhaps either the 3000 or the Sport Pilot might be able
to be made to work. The Sport Pilot is a very easy install. The 3000 may
have different electronics. I'll have a closer look.

In my situation, even if the rudder gain is incorrect, I wouldn't care
since I principally want to be able to take my hands off the wheel to setup
the downriggers, so if the boat is just heading in the approximate
direction, that's ok.

Thanks for the help.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/18/05 10:36:49 AM

Larry wrote:

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:45:11 -0400, Jack Erbes wrote:


Larry wrote:


Anyone have any ideas? Thanks,

No friction clutches or drag adjustments on any of the cables or turning
spools? Maybe you could add one somewhere.

Jack


The cable is a single cable - push/pull. Not certain how I could change
that in any way. That said, there is no slack in it at all, so I am
wondering why rudder feedback is even needed.

If you can turn the jet by hand and the wheel will go with it, maybe one
of the accessory market autopilots made for use with tiller steered
boats or for direct attachment to motors can be made to work.

You basically need to find a place with enough room where you can anchor
one end of an autopilot attached to a point on the jet that will swivel
it right and left. Here is a link to one made by Raymarine as an
example, there are others on the market. Check out places and catalogs
like West Marine or BoatUS to get some others to consider:

http://tinyurl.com/7v66k

You might be a fringe market, seems like most of the jet boat drivers
want to do it by hand so that they can quickly irritate every single
other boat driver within their vision. I'm joking of course, no insult
intended.

Jack


--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:30:26 -0400, Jack Erbes wrote:

Larry wrote:

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:45:11 -0400, Jack Erbes wrote:

Larry wrote:


Anyone have any ideas? Thanks,

No friction clutches or drag adjustments on any of the cables or turning
spools? Maybe you could add one somewhere.

Jack

The cable is a single cable - push/pull. Not certain how I could change
that in any way. That said, there is no slack in it at all, so I am
wondering why rudder feedback is even needed.

If you can turn the jet by hand and the wheel will go with it, maybe one
of the accessory market autopilots made for use with tiller steered
boats or for direct attachment to motors can be made to work.

You basically need to find a place with enough room where you can anchor
one end of an autopilot attached to a point on the jet that will swivel
it right and left. Here is a link to one made by Raymarine as an
example, there are others on the market. Check out places and catalogs
like West Marine or BoatUS to get some others to consider:

http://tinyurl.com/7v66k

You might be a fringe market, seems like most of the jet boat drivers
want to do it by hand so that they can quickly irritate every single
other boat driver within their vision. I'm joking of course, no insult
intended.

Jack

Thanks, Jack,

You bet we're a fringe market! However, this isn't a jetski, it's an
actual boat! In fact, one of the finest boats you can buy - Hinckley -
uses jet drives. They have the advantage of having nothing hanging below
the bottom to get banged up by rocks. Thus, it is uniquely equipped for
fishing in shallow water providing you don't suck up mud into the pump!

The problem is that the steering mechanism for the jet is under water.
Thus, any drive which moves the jet also has to be. Nautamatic suggested I
replace the steering mechanism with a hydraulic one, but that is close to
impossible.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/15/05 11:38:32 AM

Larry wrote:

Thanks, Jack,

You bet we're a fringe market! However, this isn't a jetski, it's an
actual boat! In fact, one of the finest boats you can buy - Hinckley -
uses jet drives. They have the advantage of having nothing hanging below
the bottom to get banged up by rocks. Thus, it is uniquely equipped for
fishing in shallow water providing you don't suck up mud into the pump!

You're right, I just looked at them on the SeaDoo page. No insult
intended with my remark about the jetski drivers.

The problem is that the steering mechanism for the jet is under water.
Thus, any drive which moves the jet also has to be. Nautamatic suggested I
replace the steering mechanism with a hydraulic one, but that is close to
impossible.

Okay, I have a better image now. There aren't any cross sections or
manuals on that page though, so I don't have any idea what's "inside the
box". There is nothing at all in the way of a moving part in a dry area
where a push/pull arm could be attached and an actuator could be
mounted? If there was, one of the lighter models that have a hand
control box on a cable might could be made to work.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)