Gualtier Malde (Chuck) wrote:

I came across a Garmin 18 WAAS-enhanced GPS for a laptop. That led me
to search for other types and brands, but I didn't get many answers.

Try these:

https://www1.securesiteserver.co.uk/holux/catalogue/

http://www.rikaline.com/gps_receiver.htm

Also, do an eBay search for GPS devices and you'll see a lot of makes
and types of GPS receivers.

You have to carefully consider which version of the GPS 18 you buy and
how you want to use it. Here is an extract from a Garmin web page:

"The PC and LVC versions both default to output data in the industry
standard NMEA 0183 data format, but may also be user programmed to
output data in the GARMIN proprietary format. The USB version produces
data only in the GARMIN proprietary format."

If you are not using a Garmin automotive navigation software (nRoute,
MapSource City Navigator, etc.) the 18 USB will not work for you. If
you are looking for a NMEA output the GPS 18 USB will not work for you.
And, as far as I know, the GPS 18 USB is not compatible with any of
Garmin's marine charting packages.


These units are sold with road use in mind. What if I wanted to use
one with nautical charts? Does anyone know if the BSB and roadmap
formats are the same?

For marine use, you want a GPS receiver with a NMEA output and that
rules out the GPS 18 USB. But you could use the GPS 18 PC or LVC for a
NMEA input for a marine navigation software.

And BSB and the routeable road maps are not the same. BSB is a raster
format (a bitmapped image) while most of the road navigation packages
are vector formats to allow automatic routing. For the most part, the
vector road navigation map packages are much more expensive and limited
to use with specific brands of hardware.

I'd like to hear from anyone who might be using this equipment.

For the most part, I would not buy hardware from Garmin because it would
mean I could use only Garmin's mapping/charting packages. Further, any
interoperability (automobile, marine, topo, etc.) would be limited to
what they wanted to market or allow and require additional purchases of
more Garmin mapping packages.

I don't have anything against Garmin, their marketing is simply not
aimed at me.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

Jack Erbes wrote:
Gualtier Malde (Chuck) wrote:


You have to carefully consider which version of the GPS 18 you buy and
how you want to use it. Here is an extract from a Garmin web page:

"The PC and LVC versions both default to output data in the industry
standard NMEA 0183 data format, but may also be user programmed to
output data in the GARMIN proprietary format. The USB version produces
data only in the GARMIN proprietary format."

I looked all over for that kind of thing and didn't find it. I do wish
I were better at finding things in web sites.

If you are not using a Garmin automotive navigation software (nRoute,
MapSource City Navigator, etc.) the 18 USB will not work for you. If
you are looking for a NMEA output the GPS 18 USB will not work for you.
And, as far as I know, the GPS 18 USB is not compatible with any of
Garmin's marine charting packages.

OK. I am beginning to understand that my question was based entirely on
my own misunderstanding (and badly stated as well). Now I believe that
the entire GPS device is in the thing I thought was an antenna, and what
is on the laptop is the software.

So I have navigation software using NMEA and I have a DB9 connector. I
buy the GARMIN 18PC, plug in and power up and tell me software where
it's connected, and I'm off and running again.

I didn't realize that the Garmin unit, itself, is simply a GPS machine
without its own display.

Unless I am still incorrect in that assumption, I'll depart now with my
sincere thanks for all of your replies.

Chuck

Well, perhaps except for this from Jack Erbes:

For the most part, I would not buy hardware from Garmin because it would
mean I could use only Garmin's mapping/charting packages. Further, any
interoperability (automobile, marine, topo, etc.) would be limited to
what they wanted to market or allow and require additional purchases of
more Garmin mapping packages.

I don't have anything against Garmin, their marketing is simply not
aimed at me.

But if the unit I buy has NMEA output and I have software to handle that
(Nobeltec), then I don't have to worry about Garmin's software, do I? I
hope not, because that would be a deal-breaker.

Chuck

Gualtier Malde (Chuck) wrote:

snip
I looked all over for that kind of thing and didn't find it. I do wish
I were better at finding things in web sites.
snip

That was from a google search for "garmin gps 18" and the hit that
produced at http://www.garmin.com/products/gps18oem/

Well, perhaps except for this from Jack Erbes:

For the most part, I would not buy hardware from Garmin because it
would mean I could use only Garmin's mapping/charting packages.
Further, any interoperability (automobile, marine, topo, etc.) would
be limited to what they wanted to market or allow and require
additional purchases of more Garmin mapping packages.

I don't have anything against Garmin, their marketing is simply not
aimed at me.


But if the unit I buy has NMEA output and I have software to handle that
(Nobeltec), then I don't have to worry about Garmin's software, do I? I
hope not, because that would be a deal-breaker.

You are right, you don't have to worry as long as you have a NMEA
output. And nearly all newer GPS receivers will give you a NMEA output,
the Garmin 18 USB just happens to be one that will not.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 13:42:35 -0500, Jack Erbes
wrote:



For the most part, I would not buy hardware from Garmin because it would
mean I could use only Garmin's mapping/charting packages. Further, any
interoperability (automobile, marine, topo, etc.) would be limited to
what they wanted to market or allow and require additional purchases of
more Garmin mapping packages.

Almost all Garmin GPS receivers, like most other makes, will output
NMEA-0183 format data, which can be read by virtually all mapping
programs.

Garmin recievers only use the Garmin protocol for uploading and
downloading waypoints and routes, and for uploading Garmin's
proprietary maps or charts. Many non-Garmin programs can use the
Garmin protocol for waypoint and route transfers.

I don't have anything against Garmin, their marketing is simply not
aimed at me.

Jack

--
Peter Bennett VE7CEI
email: peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
GPS and NMEA info and programs: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter/index.html
Newsgroup new user info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq

Peter Bennett wrote:

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 13:42:35 -0500, Jack Erbes
wrote:



For the most part, I would not buy hardware from Garmin because it would
mean I could use only Garmin's mapping/charting packages. Further, any
interoperability (automobile, marine, topo, etc.) would be limited to
what they wanted to market or allow and require additional purchases of
more Garmin mapping packages.


Almost all Garmin GPS receivers, like most other makes, will output
NMEA-0183 format data, which can be read by virtually all mapping
programs.

Garmin recievers only use the Garmin protocol for uploading and
downloading waypoints and routes, and for uploading Garmin's
proprietary maps or charts. Many non-Garmin programs can use the
Garmin protocol for waypoint and route transfers.

In my general inexperience with things Garmin, I may have some mistaken
impressions about the effect of the Garmin protocol. I thought data in
the Garmin proprietary format would not be read or used by an
application not specifically written to use it. In other words, if an
application was looking for NMEA data strings, it would not read any of
the Garmin proprietary data strings would it?

And I'm not trying to argue the point, I'm trying to learn more. Just
in case I have not already established my level of expertise here, I'll
say know that I know about enough to be dangerous. :)

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:15:12 -0500, Jack Erbes
wrote:

Peter Bennett wrote:

Garmin recievers only use the Garmin protocol for uploading and
downloading waypoints and routes, and for uploading Garmin's
proprietary maps or charts. Many non-Garmin programs can use the
Garmin protocol for waypoint and route transfers.

In my general inexperience with things Garmin, I may have some mistaken
impressions about the effect of the Garmin protocol. I thought data in
the Garmin proprietary format would not be read or used by an
application not specifically written to use it. In other words, if an
application was looking for NMEA data strings, it would not read any of
the Garmin proprietary data strings would it?

That is correct. You have to manually switch the Garmin receiver
between Garmin and

And I'm not trying to argue the point, I'm trying to learn more. Just
in case I have not already established my level of expertise here, I'll
say know that I know about enough to be dangerous. :)

Jack

--
Peter Bennett VE7CEI
email: peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
GPS and NMEA info and programs: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter/index.html
Newsgroup new user info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:15:12 -0500, Jack Erbes
wrote:

Peter Bennett wrote:
(hit the wrong button on the previous post...)
Garmin recievers only use the Garmin protocol for uploading and
downloading waypoints and routes, and for uploading Garmin's
proprietary maps or charts. Many non-Garmin programs can use the
Garmin protocol for waypoint and route transfers.

In my general inexperience with things Garmin, I may have some mistaken
impressions about the effect of the Garmin protocol. I thought data in
the Garmin proprietary format would not be read or used by an
application not specifically written to use it. In other words, if an
application was looking for NMEA data strings, it would not read any of
the Garmin proprietary data strings would it?

That is correct. You have to manually switch the GPS receiver between
Garmin and NMEA modes. Some programs (like Ozi Explorer) know enough
to switch modes and baud rates (Garmin protocol uses 9600, NMEA uses
4800) when you ask them to transfer waypoints.

One marine charting program is too smart - if you tell it you have a
Garmin receiver, it insists on using Garmin protocol instead of NMEA
to get the real-time navigation data. If you want to feed NMEA data
from the GPS to an autopilot or DSC radio, you have to lie to the
program, telling it you have a Generic NMEA source, so you can leave
the GPS in NMEA mode.

And I'm not trying to argue the point, I'm trying to learn more. Just
in case I have not already established my level of expertise here, I'll
say know that I know about enough to be dangerous. :)

Jack

--
Peter Bennett VE7CEI
email: peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
GPS and NMEA info and programs: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter/index.html
Newsgroup new user info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq

"Jack Erbes" wrote in message
...
In my general inexperience with things Garmin, I may have some mistaken
impressions about the effect of the Garmin protocol. I thought data in
the Garmin proprietary format would not be read or used by an
application not specifically written to use it. In other words, if an
application was looking for NMEA data strings, it would not read any of
the Garmin proprietary data strings would it?

You are mixing up two things here. Firstly, there is the Garmin protocol.
This is a proprietary *protocol* consisting of binary (non human-readable)
data at 9600 baud.

Secondly, there are proprietary *sentences* or data strings, which are human
readable text, at 4800 baud. These sentences are called proprietary because
they are not defined by the NMEA standard. They have the standard NMEA
sentence format, starting with $P to indicate that they are Proprietary and
ending with a Carriage Return/Linefeed combo like any other NMEA sentence,
but the actual contents is entirely up to the manufacturer of the device.

The difference is for instance that proprietary NMEA sentences will be
passed by NMEA equipment like multiplexers and NMEA-linked instruments, but
a proprietary protocol will not.

Meindert

Meindert Sprang wrote:

"Jack Erbes" wrote in message
...

In my general inexperience with things Garmin, I may have some mistaken
impressions about the effect of the Garmin protocol. I thought data in
the Garmin proprietary format would not be read or used by an
application not specifically written to use it. In other words, if an
application was looking for NMEA data strings, it would not read any of
the Garmin proprietary data strings would it?


You are mixing up two things here. Firstly, there is the Garmin protocol.
This is a proprietary *protocol* consisting of binary (non human-readable)
data at 9600 baud.

Secondly, there are proprietary *sentences* or data strings snip

Okay, thanks to Peter Bennet's posts and yours I'm smarter about both
NMEA and the Garmin protocol and sentences.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

Garmin does not require you to buy any particular software to run it -
it has the capability to output the data in NMEA format - most Nautical
mapping software will be able to use this (well maybe not most but
there are ALOT that can do so)