"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in
:
1. On a sailboat, where do you put the display?

I have my display right at the wheel so that you have no problem seeing
it from where you're steering. I have my chart plotter, a NorthStar
961, mounted right there too. I've never understood people who mount
their radar by the nav station. Maybe a second head, but you need to be
able to interpert all of the data being presented to you in one
location. Maybe others can do this, but I want everything where I am
using it.

Here's a photo of the wheel, chart plotter and radar (lower left)
http://www.geoffschultz.org/1999_Sailing/1999_01
_FtLauderdale_Captiva/990104_keylargo_marathon/imagepages/image5.htm

And here's a photo of the display lit at night.

http://www.geoffschultz.org/1998_Sai...h_Florida/Day_
14/imagepages/image6.htm

2. Realistically, how far do you set the max range?

I normally keep it on the 4 to 8 nm range. For weather tracking I bump
it out to 12+ miles, which is about it's max range.

3. Do you trust yours enough to use it instead of a "watch"

As virtually everyone has said, you need a pair of eyes. The watch is
good to provide another set, but someone has to be watching and
listening.

4. I see a "guard zone alarm" but no "constant-bearing alarm".

Quite often when you're in seas or gusty conditions I find that the
boat isn't tracking 100% on the same course (Perhaps an understatement).
As a result, the bearing to the target is changing and needs a human
interperation of what's going on.

6) Mounting

I have a transom mounted radar pole. That works fine, but I'd rather
have it up the mast and have it gimbled.

-- Geoff

Hi,

Considering buying a radar, so I have a few questions:

1. On a sailboat, where do you put the display? I rarely steer from
behind the wheel, mainly by sitting on one of the gunwales beside the
wheel, or sometimes by Otto while hiding from the rain under the
dodger (hence the name... ).

2. Realistically, how far do you set the max range? I'm seeing that
unless I mount the antenna up the mast, I'm not gonna get more than
maybe 10 miles range no matter what unit I buy. Then again, if I see a
freighter steaming at 30 knots, 10 miles away, I still have 20 minutes
to do something. Is a 20-mile range worth getting?

3. Do you trust yours enough to use it instead of a "watch" (ie watch
the radar screen instead of where you're going)? Trying to decide if
getting a radar will increase my cruising time significantly (ie more
confidence in running at night)

4. I see a "guard zone alarm" but no "constant-bearing alarm". Why
not? wouldn't a constant-bearing alarm be far more useful (and not
that hard to implement)?

5. I'm looking at the Furuno 1623 or 1712, or the JRC 1000. I have a
Furuno GP-31 GPS and I'm impressed by the quality (also, probably 90%
of commercial boats around here have Furuno radars). Any comments?

6. Is it worth while to mount the antenna up the mast, or should I use
a "dedicated" mast at the transom?

That's all for now...dreaming on a dull winter's day...

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 17:40:10 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote:

Hi,

Considering buying a radar, so I have a few questions:

1. On a sailboat, where do you put the display? I rarely steer from behind the
wheel, mainly by sitting on one of the gunwales beside the wheel, or sometimes
by Otto while hiding from the rain under the dodger (hence the name... ).

2. Realistically, how far do you set the max range? I'm seeing that unless I
mount the antenna up the mast, I'm not gonna get more than maybe 10 miles range
no matter what unit I buy. Then again, if I see a freighter steaming at 30
knots, 10 miles away, I still have 20 minutes to do something. Is a 20-mile
range worth getting?

3. Do you trust yours enough to use it instead of a "watch" (ie watch the radar
screen instead of where you're going)? Trying to decide if getting a radar will
increase my cruising time significantly (ie more confidence in running at night)

4. I see a "guard zone alarm" but no "constant-bearing alarm". Why not? wouldn't
a constant-bearing alarm be far more useful (and not that hard to implement)?


What you need for this is a mode called "true motion". It requires a
good electronic compass or gyro fed to the radar. The picture on the
radar stays still and you move across the picture. When you reach the
edge of the screen it resets you to the bottom of the screen with a
new picture.
Other boats also move across the picture on the screen.

With this system you can put a cursor on another boat and your boat
can yaw or move anywhere and the cursor will remain at the same
azimuth that you set it at relative to your position. That will let
you see if the other boat is on coarse to you.

The MARPA systems in the small radars you have to manually acquire the
targets. Most are limited to around 6 targets that they will track at
one time. If you loose contact with a target for a time you have to
reacquire it again. It can become a pain to use. It sounds like an
ideal thing to have but in reality it is a lot of work to use.

The true motion though is very useful.

I have an older raytheon 21xx that has both in it.

Regards
Gary

5. I'm looking at the Furuno 1623 or 1712, or the JRC 1000. I have a Furuno
GP-31 GPS and I'm impressed by the quality (also, probably 90% of commercial
boats around here have Furuno radars). Any comments?

6. Is it worth while to mount the antenna up the mast, or should I use a
"dedicated" mast at the transom?

That's all for now...dreaming on a dull winter's day...

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 17:40:10 +0000, Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

Hi,

Considering buying a radar, so I have a few questions:


Wow - thanks for all the Great Answers! Lots of things I hadn't
considered, like losing close-in target if the antenna is too high.

As for display mounting, the reason I asked about watches is that the
"obvious" place would be the nav station, but I can't see where I'm going
from there, so it would only be useful if I was using the radar as a
closed-cct TV. Sounds like that's not an option, so scratch the nav
station as a possible mounting place.

I currently use a swing-out arm for my sounder, and it works well, but
blocks the companionway - something I'd rather not do for long periods.
I'll consider it, but I think I'll go with another option.

That leaves on the "deck" under the dodger (where I put my
"convertable" speakers), or on the binnacle. Binnacle would be good for
when I'm at the wheel (with a swivel so I can see it when I'm beside the
wheel), but I just don't like clutter on my binnacle: I like to see my
compass, and I sometimes lean against it and steer with the wheel behind
me. OTOH, the dodger option would be kinda far away when I'm at the wheel,
but good when I'm ducking under the dodger ("DUCK DODGER - In The 24 1/2
Century!" - thank you, Chuck Jones!)

But in either case, I'd be removing the display when the boat is
docked. How easy is this, especially the connectors? How well would the
connectors handle being out in the weather - is there some kind of
protective cover for them? The dodger option might allow me to snake the
cables up from below, but they might get in the way ("Sailor Strangled By
Radar Cable: Film at 11..").

One thing I noticed about the Furuno 1721: it had a "secondary display"
option - is this as good as it sounds? Also, one feature the 1721 had is
that on "standby" it displays the nav data it gets via NMEA from the GPS -
that also sounds like a Good Feature, and make the binnacle mount a good
option (since the GPS would be right below it if it was under the dodger).

Again, thanks for all the help!
Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

Some comments on a few of the points made:

1. Range - Use the GREATEST range that shows a solid picture for your
area. If you stay on the 0.25 and 0.5 mile scales for normal operation,
you are highly limiting the overall value of the radar. Think of it like
driving your car down the freeway, always looking as far ahead as
possible and then looking in close as you encounter traffic, etc.
Admittedly, the vessel targets will appear smaller, but you can always
scan down as they approach.

2. True motion - Very few ships use or even have this choice, nowadays
(most hated the screen resetting as you approached the edge). What is
normally used ( and available to some small boaters) is "North UP" or
gyro stabilized, which is frequently referred to, incorrectly, as true
motion. This means you stay in the center of the screen, but your
heading flasher moves, so direct bearings can easily be taken. I'd call
it the best of both worlds.

3. ARPA - if you can get this and use it, do so. Even on ships, the norm
is to leave the auto designate off (this is changing) and manually
acquire targets. Once you learn how to use it, it can really simplify
your collision avoidance options.

otn

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
.."obvious" place would be the nav station, but...

Your conclusion that the nav station i less than optimal is correct. A
friend of mine has it mounted there on his Valiant and having played
"radar officer" shouting instructions up to him at the helm at we
motyored under the Golden Gate dodging freighters in heavy fog ("Come
left another 15 degrees, it looks like the current is setting us toward
the point!"), you really don't want to go there.

I currently use a swing-out arm for my sounder, and it works well, but
blocks the companionway - something I'd rather not do for long periods.
We've actually got two swing out arms. One for the GPS/fish finder and
one for the radar. The truth of the matter is that we actually use the
radar infrequently enough that this is really not a problem for us.

But in either case, I'd be removing the display when the boat is
docked. How easy is this, especially the connectors?

Easy to do, but I'd be concerned about two things: #1 The connectors
eventually wearing out or bending a pin and #2 accidentaly damaging the
unit by dropping it or banging ito something as I'm carrying it and the
boat lurches or something.

Take care - Dan
--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

I remove the display from my boat when it's in the parking lot (trailered
boat).
There are three connectors (power, antenna, GPS) all are encased in heavy
rubber. I periodically coat them with dielectric grease, I hang them so that
water doesn't get sprayed directly on them when washing the boat.


"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 17:40:10 +0000, Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

Hi,

Considering buying a radar, so I have a few questions:


Wow - thanks for all the Great Answers! Lots of things I hadn't
considered, like losing close-in target if the antenna is too high.

As for display mounting, the reason I asked about watches is that the
"obvious" place would be the nav station, but I can't see where I'm going
from there, so it would only be useful if I was using the radar as a
closed-cct TV. Sounds like that's not an option, so scratch the nav
station as a possible mounting place.

I currently use a swing-out arm for my sounder, and it works well, but
blocks the companionway - something I'd rather not do for long periods.
I'll consider it, but I think I'll go with another option.

That leaves on the "deck" under the dodger (where I put my
"convertable" speakers), or on the binnacle. Binnacle would be good for
when I'm at the wheel (with a swivel so I can see it when I'm beside the
wheel), but I just don't like clutter on my binnacle: I like to see my
compass, and I sometimes lean against it and steer with the wheel behind
me. OTOH, the dodger option would be kinda far away when I'm at the wheel,
but good when I'm ducking under the dodger ("DUCK DODGER - In The 24 1/2
Century!" - thank you, Chuck Jones!)

But in either case, I'd be removing the display when the boat is
docked. How easy is this, especially the connectors? How well would the
connectors handle being out in the weather - is there some kind of
protective cover for them? The dodger option might allow me to snake the
cables up from below, but they might get in the way ("Sailor Strangled By
Radar Cable: Film at 11..").

One thing I noticed about the Furuno 1721: it had a "secondary display"
option - is this as good as it sounds? Also, one feature the 1721 had is
that on "standby" it displays the nav data it gets via NMEA from the GPS -
that also sounds like a Good Feature, and make the binnacle mount a good
option (since the GPS would be right below it if it was under the dodger).

Again, thanks for all the help!
Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

x-no-archive:yes


"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote:

Hi,

Considering buying a radar, so I have a few questions:

1. On a sailboat, where do you put the display? I rarely steer from behind the
wheel, mainly by sitting on one of the gunwales beside the wheel, or sometimes
by Otto while hiding from the rain under the dodger (hence the name... ).

We have it mounted on an arm the binnacle opposite the autopilot
controls so that it can be swung around a bit to be visible from the
side of the cockpit. So if it is pretty calm and the autopilot is
doing the steering we can sit off on the side and still see it. Our
cockpit is under a bimini and is pretty dry as we have a dodger and
curtains all around.

http://photomail.photoworks.com/shar...jy3jXDgjbDznKP
has a picture at #24 (if the link works)

2. Realistically, how far do you set the max range? I'm seeing that unless I
mount the antenna up the mast, I'm not gonna get more than maybe 10 miles range
no matter what unit I buy. Then again, if I see a freighter steaming at 30
knots, 10 miles away, I still have 20 minutes to do something. Is a 20-mile
range worth getting?

In the ICW and rivers etc, we have it on whatever range gives us the
most coverage - in a canal it may be on 1/4 mile, and on a river maybe
1.5 miles depending on how wide a river it is. Mostly near the coast
when offshore we have it at 3 miles depending on how far offshore we
are and what the visibility conditions are. We rarely use the higher
ranges because then we don't see stuff close to us.

3. Do you trust yours enough to use it instead of a "watch" (ie watch the radar
screen instead of where you're going)? Trying to decide if getting a radar will
increase my cruising time significantly (ie more confidence in running at night)

We do not run at night unless we are offshore - never in the ICW. We
do not single hand, and almost all the time two of us are in the
cockpit looking around. Usually Bob has the wheel and I'm looking out
for boats overtaking or crab pots or I've got the binoculars or I'm
taking a photo.

Actually, we normally check stuff with our eyes and then see if it
shows up on the radar.

On occasions where we are standing watches and when I'm standing the
watch and Bob is below, I bounce around in the cockpit like a ping
pong ball - partly to keep awake. I do look at the radar, but I am
OFTEN seeing things before the radar does - actually on one recent
clear passage I kept mistaking stars for ship running lights - of
course they don't show up on the radar at all.

4. I see a "guard zone alarm" but no "constant-bearing alarm". Why not? wouldn't
a constant-bearing alarm be far more useful (and not that hard to implement)?

5. I'm looking at the Furuno 1623 or 1712, or the JRC 1000. I have a Furuno
GP-31 GPS and I'm impressed by the quality (also, probably 90% of commercial
boats around here have Furuno radars). Any comments?

We have a Si-Tex but I don't think it is made anymore.

6. Is it worth while to mount the antenna up the mast, or should I use a
"dedicated" mast at the transom?

We have ours on an arch. Even there, we sometimes have blind spots
when heeled a bit.

grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id2.html

x-no-archive:yes


"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote:

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 17:40:10 +0000, Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

Hi,

Considering buying a radar, so I have a few questions:


Wow - thanks for all the Great Answers! Lots of things I hadn't
considered, like losing close-in target if the antenna is too high.
snip
But in either case, I'd be removing the display when the boat is
docked. How easy is this, especially the connectors? How well would the
connectors handle being out in the weather - is there some kind of
protective cover for them? The dodger option might allow me to snake the

We remove and store the radar when we are in a marina (we don't bother
at anchor) or when we leave the boat on a mooring. Bob has the
connectors shrink wrap protected. There are three nuts or knobs to be
tightened or loosened - does not take long at all. One is to attach
the screen to the arm, and the other two attach the radar part to the
antenna and to a power source. I think that Bob has the cable running
down inside the legs of the radar arch. The cables that I see are
quite short - less than 8"


cables up from below, but they might get in the way ("Sailor Strangled By
Radar Cable: Film at 11..").
snip
grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id2.html

I'd get the same make of radar as your chartplotter. Partly because the
knobology will be the same between the two instruments, and partly because
they will talk to each other better. I have a Raymarine chartplotter and
bought a Furuno radar, and they won't properly share NMEA data - both
manufacturers blame the other half for the incompatibility. I bought Furuno
because all my research showed that they are fabulously reliable (and my
personal experience has confirmed this) but I still wish I'd bought
Raymarine because of the knobology and compatibility issues.

I have a sailing boat, and I have my radar inside. It would be much more
useful on the outside, but the downside is that it would be exposed to sun,
salt and getting wacked by ropes etc. I have on my list of things to do to
make a swinging arm that in is parked position holds the radar on the inside
above the chart-table, but on its swung position holds the radar in the
companionway where I could see it from the helm.

Stick the radar halfway up the mast. If you have a rear gantry it is better
there, especially if gimballed. The nominal range of the smaller Furuno,
Raymarine and JRC radars is about 12 miles but in practise they are only
really reliable over about 5 miles. They will pick out land over a greater
distance, but that is not really helpful. Ships are the danger, and they are
only really visible at about 4-5 miles.

"Daniel E. Best" wrote in message
news:2xwEb.600052$Fm2.547268@attbi_s04...
On a swing out arm in the companion way.

That's what I'd like to do too. Did you make yours yourself or are ready
made items available? If so, could you point me to the site?