I spent a lot of time shopping for radar a few months ago. I was on a budget
and looked at JRC, Furuno and Raytheon. They each had three low priced
models and the specifications were almost identical. I went with Furuno's
1622 because the LCD was smaller than the comparably priced CRT JRC model.
I have a wakeboard tower on my 19' bowrider - serves double duty as a radar
arch. Several mounts are available including a pipe/pole so radar can be
mounted on almost any style boat.
The wiring is simple: one cable for power and one for display.
You're right about GPS - it's great to know where you're going.
Add radar and you'll know what's around you.

"Wheres the sun?" wrote in message
news:fiJ4b.322150$o%2.146075@sccrnsc02...
I own a 24' Chapparal Signature Series cruiser and enjoy weekend trips
from
Boston down the coast to Cape Cod.

A few weeks ago I found myself caught in the worst fog I have ever
encountered, right down to the water, I could barely make out my pulpit.
Thank god for my Garmin 232 GPS to make it home. My fingernails were dug
deeply into the steering wheel as we continously listened to the Harbor
Cruise ships' horns alerting us of their presence, we finally made it back
in one piece.

Can someone recommend a decent radar system for my boat. I do not have an
arch so installation tips would be appreciated as well.

Thanks in advance!

Best cost / performance ratio would be one of the JRC black and white LCD
models. Furuno would be good in any model. Stay away from Raymarine, they're
pretty much making only crap since breaking away from Raytheon.

--


Keith
__
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too
dark to read.
"Wheres the sun?" wrote in message
news:fiJ4b.322150$o%2.146075@sccrnsc02...
I own a 24' Chapparal Signature Series cruiser and enjoy weekend trips
from
Boston down the coast to Cape Cod.

A few weeks ago I found myself caught in the worst fog I have ever
encountered, right down to the water, I could barely make out my pulpit.
Thank god for my Garmin 232 GPS to make it home. My fingernails were dug
deeply into the steering wheel as we continously listened to the Harbor
Cruise ships' horns alerting us of their presence, we finally made it back
in one piece.

Can someone recommend a decent radar system for my boat. I do not have an
arch so installation tips would be appreciated as well.

Thanks in advance!

http://www.raymarine.com/raymarine/P...roduct _id=30

Take a look at the SL72 small boat radars from Raymarine. The SL72RC
adds the chart system to the radar when you add a Raymarine WAAS-GPS
receiver, which is built right into the little GPS antenna and puts
out data to the radar without the extra box. (Raystar 120). Be
careful not to click a waypoint on a bouy or you'll run right over it.
You can add the Raymarine digital sounder now or later. The neat
thing about all this is the radar is already setup to synchronize and
overlay the chart, sonar data, radar video, etc., all on one neat
display. Raymarine has a new gyro-compass to replace their older
compass sensor, which also gives you gyro-accurate rate of turn data
to the compass sensor. I've just installed that to a new installation
aboard a friend's Amel 41 ketch. He has the larger SL70RC color
display, which is nice/pretty/etc., but functionally identical except
for color and price. We're using the 24 mile 2KW radome, too. 24
miles is forever in a sailboat.

From the top of a 24' cabin roof, I'd expect about 8-10 mile range to
boats sticking out of the water, and maybe 15 miles to a ship or
tower, because your natural horizon is about that far. It would give
you plenty of range for the fog problem. The nice thing about a LOWER
antenna is that it can see targets much closer to the boat, like that
bouy you're trying to run over, without the radar shooting over the
near target that doesn't stick way up. I had the radar mounted on a
15' radar "pipe" installation on the stern of my friend's previous
Endeavour 35 sloop and the little Raymarine 2KW 18" radome could
clearly see boats as close as 5 slips away from us in the marina,
clearly showing the outline of the docks all the way across the
marina. That low down, it didn't paint the 55' bridge we sail under,
but clearly showed the position of the bridge supports into the water,
where it counts. Motoring through the gauntlet of anchored-out boats,
marina docks and bridges in heavy fog would be quite easy until you
needed to see your target slip inside the radar's minimum range, which
is limited by the time the radar transmitter's output is on the air,
the "pulse width", which in a Raymarine on 1/8th mile range is VERY
narrow, giving you amazing resolution.

The gyro-compass output even lets you see which direction your boat is
pointed, right on the radar's overlay display, with the boat standing
dead still. The WAAS compensated GPS works great as an anchor alarm
anchored out, too. The chart plotter/GPS/gyrocompass works without
the radar transmitting. If you have traffic near where your anchorage
is, you can leave the whole thing running with the radar's computer
watching out for the traffic from your anchorage, alarming when a
moving target gets inside your alarm's setting and warning you of any
crash courses, whether you are moving or not.

Works great!



On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 15:09:00 GMT, "Wheres the sun?"
wrote:

I own a 24' Chapparal Signature Series cruiser and enjoy weekend trips from
Boston down the coast to Cape Cod.

A few weeks ago I found myself caught in the worst fog I have ever
encountered, right down to the water, I could barely make out my pulpit.
Thank god for my Garmin 232 GPS to make it home. My fingernails were dug
deeply into the steering wheel as we continously listened to the Harbor
Cruise ships' horns alerting us of their presence, we finally made it back
in one piece.

Can someone recommend a decent radar system for my boat. I do not have an
arch so installation tips would be appreciated as well.

Thanks in advance!



Larry

Extremely intelligent life must exist in the universe.
You can tell because they never tried to contact us.

On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:46:14 -0500, "Keith"
wrote:

Best cost / performance ratio would be one of the JRC black and white LCD
models. Furuno would be good in any model. Stay away from Raymarine, they're
pretty much making only crap since breaking away from Raytheon.

I'm interested in why you know Raymarine is crap. My buddy's boat has
the SL70CRCPlus, 2KW radome, gyrocompass, WAAS-GPS in its multi-vendor
network I installed and the only problem we had was some water in the
radome which Raymarine simply gave us a new one, no questions asked,
to replace it. The units functioned flawlessly at sea and I've
recommended them to other boaters from our experience. Even with the
little 2KW planar stripline antenna array, I can see ships far beyond
the 24 mile range advertised. The MARPA is like having military
target acquisition and ranging and makes a helluva great toy during
long watches at night....(c;

Lemme know what you know and what problems you've actually had with
Raymarine products.....please!.....before we buy more!


Larry

Extremely intelligent life must exist in the universe.
You can tell because they never tried to contact us.

Larry W4CSC wrote:

Oh, sorry but I forgot to mention that Raymarine's SeaTalk data
network is as simple to hookup as a cabin light. There are only 3
wires....+DC, -DC(ground) and data. They couldn't make it simpler.
The GPS and Gyrocompass and other instruments on Seatalk are simply
hooked together, in parallel, wire for wire and when you power one of
them, you power all of them. I have a Raymarine connection box on a
bulkhead behind the helm where they all come together. It has
European screw terminals in it. Nothing is simpler.



Larry W4CSC


You do? On your 16' jetski boat...or did you buy a bigger boat?


--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

An heretical question -- are you really sure you want a radar?

I should say that I'm no Luddite -- when we finish with Fintry, she'll
have two radars, a 12kw, six foot Furuno and a small Koden backup, but
my wife and I are both experienced radar operators and our passages
are generally long enough so that our watchkeepers get some training
in the basics. But using radar on a relatively large, stable boat,
with autopilot, and often two operators in the wheelhouse is very
different from driving a small boat with one hand and eye and trying
to make sense of a lot of targets on a small screen with the other.

I would say fairly strongly that you can't operate a radar in Cape Cod
Bay and drive the boat at the same time. There are too many targets
-- boats, bouys, fishing floats with reflectors, a few ships, and so
forth. Each of them requires separate attention to figure out whether
it's a danger or not, and on a small radar, with only two electronic
bearing lines, that means you have to keep a mental picture of what
you've looked at and what you haven't.

So, unless you're perfectly comfortable with dividing the two jobs --
driving and radar operator -- and handing one off to someone else,
think twice about the radar. I'm based in Boston and learned to sail
down East, so I do understand how white your knuckles can get in fog,
but you can minimize risk by staying on the edge of the channels,
stopping and listening every few minutes, and watching carefully.

If you think you're going to go ahead with the radar, get someone to
take you out with a radar and actually use it for a few hours. Best
to do this on a clear day, so you can compare the radar picture to the
visual. This is the best way to understand that it doesn't tell you
much except that there's something there. I'd volunteer for this, but
Fintry's still in England and doesn't have an engine at the moment, so
you'd have to wait 'til next summer.

As for brands, go the Newport Boat Show (9/11-9/14) and play with the
major brands (Simrad, Raymarine, Furuno, Koden/Sitex, JRC). I would
discount most of the talk of quality differences as Ford versus Chevy
and pick the one that seems the most logical to you. The Koden on
Fintry was purchased by her former owner (the Royal Navy), so I didn't
choose it, but it works perfectly well. While we chose a Furuno for
our big radar for Fintry, we took a Raytheon around the world on
Swee****er, and I like the JRC in the mid range. Simrad is very
interesting and has a different user interface. I haven't looked at
the size you'll need.

Make sure your mount gets the beam above everyone on the boat all the
time -- there's enough microwave energy there to pay attention. This
means you'll probably need an arch, as it will weigh less than a pole.
Put your white running light up there, too, above the radar.

Jim Woodward
www.mvfintry.com

"Wheres the sun?" wrote in message news:fiJ4b.322150$o%2.146075@sccrnsc02...
I own a 24' Chapparal Signature Series cruiser and enjoy weekend trips from
Boston down the coast to Cape Cod.

A few weeks ago I found myself caught in the worst fog I have ever
encountered, right down to the water, I could barely make out my pulpit.
Thank god for my Garmin 232 GPS to make it home. My fingernails were dug
deeply into the steering wheel as we continously listened to the Harbor
Cruise ships' horns alerting us of their presence, we finally made it back
in one piece.

Can someone recommend a decent radar system for my boat. I do not have an
arch so installation tips would be appreciated as well.

Thanks in advance!

Thanks for the help all, I am leading towards Furuno.

Jim, you hit the nail on the head with your statement. The wife and myself
will want to know 'radar' inside and out before the purchase and install.

I know what you mean, between the death grip on the wheel, one eye on the
GPS and the other squinting forward through the fog I really don't need
another screen to look at...

"Jim Woodward" wrote in message
om...
An heretical question -- are you really sure you want a radar?

I should say that I'm no Luddite -- when we finish with Fintry, she'll
have two radars, a 12kw, six foot Furuno and a small Koden backup, but
my wife and I are both experienced radar operators and our passages
are generally long enough so that our watchkeepers get some training
in the basics. But using radar on a relatively large, stable boat,
with autopilot, and often two operators in the wheelhouse is very
different from driving a small boat with one hand and eye and trying
to make sense of a lot of targets on a small screen with the other.

I would say fairly strongly that you can't operate a radar in Cape Cod
Bay and drive the boat at the same time. There are too many targets
-- boats, bouys, fishing floats with reflectors, a few ships, and so
forth. Each of them requires separate attention to figure out whether
it's a danger or not, and on a small radar, with only two electronic
bearing lines, that means you have to keep a mental picture of what
you've looked at and what you haven't.

So, unless you're perfectly comfortable with dividing the two jobs --
driving and radar operator -- and handing one off to someone else,
think twice about the radar. I'm based in Boston and learned to sail
down East, so I do understand how white your knuckles can get in fog,
but you can minimize risk by staying on the edge of the channels,
stopping and listening every few minutes, and watching carefully.

If you think you're going to go ahead with the radar, get someone to
take you out with a radar and actually use it for a few hours. Best
to do this on a clear day, so you can compare the radar picture to the
visual. This is the best way to understand that it doesn't tell you
much except that there's something there. I'd volunteer for this, but
Fintry's still in England and doesn't have an engine at the moment, so
you'd have to wait 'til next summer.

As for brands, go the Newport Boat Show (9/11-9/14) and play with the
major brands (Simrad, Raymarine, Furuno, Koden/Sitex, JRC). I would
discount most of the talk of quality differences as Ford versus Chevy
and pick the one that seems the most logical to you. The Koden on
Fintry was purchased by her former owner (the Royal Navy), so I didn't
choose it, but it works perfectly well. While we chose a Furuno for
our big radar for Fintry, we took a Raytheon around the world on
Swee****er, and I like the JRC in the mid range. Simrad is very
interesting and has a different user interface. I haven't looked at
the size you'll need.

Make sure your mount gets the beam above everyone on the boat all the
time -- there's enough microwave energy there to pay attention. This
means you'll probably need an arch, as it will weigh less than a pole.
Put your white running light up there, too, above the radar.

Jim Woodward
www.mvfintry.com

"Wheres the sun?" wrote in message
news:fiJ4b.322150$o%2.146075@sccrnsc02...
I own a 24' Chapparal Signature Series cruiser and enjoy weekend trips
from
Boston down the coast to Cape Cod.

A few weeks ago I found myself caught in the worst fog I have ever
encountered, right down to the water, I could barely make out my pulpit.
Thank god for my Garmin 232 GPS to make it home. My fingernails were dug
deeply into the steering wheel as we continously listened to the Harbor
Cruise ships' horns alerting us of their presence, we finally made it
back
in one piece.

Can someone recommend a decent radar system for my boat. I do not have
an
arch so installation tips would be appreciated as well.

Thanks in advance!

"Jim Woodward" wrote in message I would say
fairly strongly that you can't operate a radar in Cape Cod
Bay and drive the boat at the same time. There are too many targets
-- boats, bouys, fishing floats with reflectors, a few ships, and so
forth.

I'd say that depends entirely on your own individual ability to multitask
and set priority. Frankly, the workload you describe there is very low
compared to what the human brain can cope with when trained and practised
(try flying an airline into fog-bound La Guardia on a Friday night!). Marine
radar is so easy to use (only two dimensions) and boats move relatively
slowly and you can slow down and even stop in a boat.

On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 21:39:06 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Larry W4CSC wrote:

Oh, sorry but I forgot to mention that Raymarine's SeaTalk data
network is as simple to hookup as a cabin light. There are only 3
wires....+DC, -DC(ground) and data. They couldn't make it simpler.
The GPS and Gyrocompass and other instruments on Seatalk are simply
hooked together, in parallel, wire for wire and when you power one of
them, you power all of them. I have a Raymarine connection box on a
bulkhead behind the helm where they all come together. It has
European screw terminals in it. Nothing is simpler.



Larry W4CSC


You do? On your 16' jetski boat...or did you buy a bigger boat?


I've installed an extensive electronic suite in a friend's '85 Amel
Sharpi 41 ketch we sailed up from Satellite Beach, FL a few weeks ago.
We're going cruising in it soon.


Larry

Extremely intelligent life must exist in the universe.
You can tell because they never tried to contact us.

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:46:14 -0500, "Keith"
wrote:

Best cost / performance ratio would be one of the JRC black and white LCD
models. Furuno would be good in any model. Stay away from Raymarine,
they're
pretty much making only crap since breaking away from Raytheon.

I'm interested in why you know Raymarine is crap. My buddy's boat has
the SL70CRCPlus, 2KW radome, gyrocompass, WAAS-GPS in its multi-vendor
network I installed and the only problem we had was some water in the
radome which Raymarine simply gave us a new one, no questions asked,
to replace it. The units functioned flawlessly at sea and I've
recommended them to other boaters from our experience. Even with the
little 2KW planar stripline antenna array, I can see ships far beyond
the 24 mile range advertised. The MARPA is like having military
target acquisition and ranging and makes a helluva great toy during
long watches at night....(c;

How high is that antenna mounted? It would have to be 70' up to have a
horizon at 12 miles. If it was mounted that high you would only be able to
see ships higher than 70' at 24 miles. Those would have to be some pretty
big ships for you to see them at ranges of well over 24 miles, no matter how
powerful the radar.

Ed