I am planning to purchase an SSB and am looking at ICOM and Furuno.

I recall in the past seeing some discussion on SSB selection that
included issues with wires sizes and connectors if I remember right.
Does anyone have any input on these two brands about these issues or others?

Earl Haase

We have just installed an Icom M802 and AT-140 antenna tuner aboard
Lionheart, an Amel Sharki 41 ketch. The antenna is the adjustable
backstay on the mainmast. with an insulator at the top.

My biggest gripe is the cheap inline connectors used to connect the
transceiver to the antenna tuner control lines. They give you these
tiny crimp pins to crimp on your provided cabling which then pushes
into the little white plastic sockets, females on both ends of your
cable. There are NO EXTRA PINS so there is zero tolerance for a
screwup. These totally open, unsolderable, connectors were made to
plug internal point-to-point wiring into a pc board, not plug a cable
into a waterproof antenna tuner being sprayed with SALT WATER, outside
in the weather. How stupid. My solution was to buy control cable
that would fit the watertight fittings through the walls of the tuner,
removing the offending pigtail with the stupid connector on it.
Inside the tuner, instead of the European-style screw terminals the
book shows, some bean counter at Icom decided to leave that out and
just make some wire loops to solder to. At least I didn't have to
remove the whole tuner from the cabinet to solder the control cable
DIRECTLY to the PC board loops. On the transceiver end, the same
crappy connector makes intermittent contact with the control circuitry
until I made a loop and secured it with cable clamps to keep the
tension off the control cable so the cheap plug couldn't move. It
needs proper military-style watertight connectors on both ends.

The transceiver cabinet, unlike the M602 VHF transceiver, is
COMPLETELY OPEN TO THE SALT AIR. A fan insures plenty of salt air
intrusion because it sucks in air out of the boat and blows it
throughout the cabinet to cool the transmitter's INTERNAL heatsink.
Nothing is spray proof or coated to prevent corrosion. Well, you're
not going to keep it over a couple of years, anyways, are you? Looks
like converted ham equipment with a marine front panel interface. The
cable connecting the control panel to the transceiver, which is NOT
mountable on the transceiver, itself, uses simple push-on connectors
already mounted on a fixed-length cable you're stuck with. These
connectors, of course, aren't watertight, just in case you think
you're going to mount the remote control head outside in the cockpit.
Put that out of your mind. The control cable in ours is wound up
behind the transceiver mounted behind a panel with its "mobile mount",
more ham equipment. If you're on the air a lot, be sure to leave it
lots of cooling air....

The DSC receiver inside it uses a SEPARATE ANTENNA and has a SEPARATE
SO-239 antenna jack on the back. I guess Icom thinks I have it
installed aboard a Navy destroyer where there are lots of antennas to
connect it to. I see no warning about how far this DSC receive
antenna needs to be away from the 150 watt transmitter's antenna. I
haven't mounted it yet, letting its owner/captain get used to the idea
that replacing the steel wires holding up the mainsail boom with
non-conductive line to get it away from the transmitting antenna
(backstay), before springing another antenna expense on him. I'll
probably go with a fiberglass HF whip antenna, as long as I can get
away with, on handrail just out of the swing of the mizzen boom which
hangs over the stern. That'll be the DSC receiver antenna for the
automatic DSC receiver to scan for a digital call.

Operationally, electronically, the Icom is a technological wonder,
like all Japanese electronic equipment, without being really
complicated. I'm a ham, so when I'm aboard I open up the transmitter
which will then transmit on any frequency from 1.6 to 30 Mhz. It will
receive any frequency from 30 Khz to 30 Mhz on FSK, AM, USB, LSB and
CW. It receives all the radiation from the unshieldable NMEA network
on hundreds of frequencies across the bands. I gave up trying to
shield it because the damned marine manufacturers use hookup wire for
NMEA network data, unbalanced to ground....and ground loops.

To open the transceiver up for CB or ham or illegal jamming of the
whole HF band.....hold down MODE + TX and press the "2" key. To put
it back to marine frequency transmit only, press the three keys
together, again......keeping my captain off the Looking Glass,
aircraft, ham, CB and broadcast SW bands....(c;....and, hopefully, out
of jail.

All the ITU marine HF channels, very nicely grouped and LCD annotated,
are pre-programmed in ROM. Then, there are several hundred
user-programmable channels for any other frequencies/modes/bands you
like. My captain is British. Channel 100-130 is for BBC...(sigh)

It's a nice transceiver and the AT-140 WILL tune a 55' insulated
backstay all the way down to 1.6 Mhz. Of course, that doesn't mean it
will RADIATE the 150 watts so anyone can HEAR you, especially in the
rotten HF conditions that have been on the bands all this year and
into the solar 11-year cycle lows coming up.....too bad it's not
really a piece of MARINE gear.

Call us on any DSC HF or VHF channel.....we'll do lunch...(c;

73, Larry W4CSC/MM2
S/V Lionheart
Charleston, SC



On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:30:59 -0500, Earl Haase
wrote:

I am planning to purchase an SSB and am looking at ICOM and Furuno.

I recall in the past seeing some discussion on SSB selection that
included issues with wires sizes and connectors if I remember right.
Does anyone have any input on these two brands about these issues or others?

Earl Haase



Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"

Yes, I can agree with everything Larry has said about the M802 and the
antenna tuner. I have one of the very first sold and have told Icom about
the really cheap plugs between radio and tuner. Other than that, I like this
radio a lot. Compared to what I had before; (SGC2000) it is a dream.
Richard Cassano, KC2ISG
S/V Gray Eagle, Tashiba 40
Oyster Bay, NY USA



"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
We have just installed an Icom M802 and AT-140 antenna tuner aboard
Lionheart, an Amel Sharki 41 ketch. The antenna is the adjustable
backstay on the mainmast. with an insulator at the top.

My biggest gripe is the cheap inline connectors used to connect the
transceiver to the antenna tuner control lines. They give you these
tiny crimp pins to crimp on your provided cabling which then pushes
into the little white plastic sockets, females on both ends of your
cable. There are NO EXTRA PINS so there is zero tolerance for a
screwup. These totally open, unsolderable, connectors were made to
plug internal point-to-point wiring into a pc board, not plug a cable
into a waterproof antenna tuner being sprayed with SALT WATER, outside
in the weather. How stupid. My solution was to buy control cable
that would fit the watertight fittings through the walls of the tuner,
removing the offending pigtail with the stupid connector on it.
Inside the tuner, instead of the European-style screw terminals the
book shows, some bean counter at Icom decided to leave that out and
just make some wire loops to solder to. At least I didn't have to
remove the whole tuner from the cabinet to solder the control cable
DIRECTLY to the PC board loops. On the transceiver end, the same
crappy connector makes intermittent contact with the control circuitry
until I made a loop and secured it with cable clamps to keep the
tension off the control cable so the cheap plug couldn't move. It
needs proper military-style watertight connectors on both ends.

The transceiver cabinet, unlike the M602 VHF transceiver, is
COMPLETELY OPEN TO THE SALT AIR. A fan insures plenty of salt air
intrusion because it sucks in air out of the boat and blows it
throughout the cabinet to cool the transmitter's INTERNAL heatsink.
Nothing is spray proof or coated to prevent corrosion. Well, you're
not going to keep it over a couple of years, anyways, are you? Looks
like converted ham equipment with a marine front panel interface. The
cable connecting the control panel to the transceiver, which is NOT
mountable on the transceiver, itself, uses simple push-on connectors
already mounted on a fixed-length cable you're stuck with. These
connectors, of course, aren't watertight, just in case you think
you're going to mount the remote control head outside in the cockpit.
Put that out of your mind. The control cable in ours is wound up
behind the transceiver mounted behind a panel with its "mobile mount",
more ham equipment. If you're on the air a lot, be sure to leave it
lots of cooling air....

The DSC receiver inside it uses a SEPARATE ANTENNA and has a SEPARATE
SO-239 antenna jack on the back. I guess Icom thinks I have it
installed aboard a Navy destroyer where there are lots of antennas to
connect it to. I see no warning about how far this DSC receive
antenna needs to be away from the 150 watt transmitter's antenna. I
haven't mounted it yet, letting its owner/captain get used to the idea
that replacing the steel wires holding up the mainsail boom with
non-conductive line to get it away from the transmitting antenna
(backstay), before springing another antenna expense on him. I'll
probably go with a fiberglass HF whip antenna, as long as I can get
away with, on handrail just out of the swing of the mizzen boom which
hangs over the stern. That'll be the DSC receiver antenna for the
automatic DSC receiver to scan for a digital call.

Operationally, electronically, the Icom is a technological wonder,
like all Japanese electronic equipment, without being really
complicated. I'm a ham, so when I'm aboard I open up the transmitter
which will then transmit on any frequency from 1.6 to 30 Mhz. It will
receive any frequency from 30 Khz to 30 Mhz on FSK, AM, USB, LSB and
CW. It receives all the radiation from the unshieldable NMEA network
on hundreds of frequencies across the bands. I gave up trying to
shield it because the damned marine manufacturers use hookup wire for
NMEA network data, unbalanced to ground....and ground loops.

To open the transceiver up for CB or ham or illegal jamming of the
whole HF band.....hold down MODE + TX and press the "2" key. To put
it back to marine frequency transmit only, press the three keys
together, again......keeping my captain off the Looking Glass,
aircraft, ham, CB and broadcast SW bands....(c;....and, hopefully, out
of jail.

All the ITU marine HF channels, very nicely grouped and LCD annotated,
are pre-programmed in ROM. Then, there are several hundred
user-programmable channels for any other frequencies/modes/bands you
like. My captain is British. Channel 100-130 is for BBC...(sigh)

It's a nice transceiver and the AT-140 WILL tune a 55' insulated
backstay all the way down to 1.6 Mhz. Of course, that doesn't mean it
will RADIATE the 150 watts so anyone can HEAR you, especially in the
rotten HF conditions that have been on the bands all this year and
into the solar 11-year cycle lows coming up.....too bad it's not
really a piece of MARINE gear.

Call us on any DSC HF or VHF channel.....we'll do lunch...(c;

73, Larry W4CSC/MM2
S/V Lionheart
Charleston, SC



On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:30:59 -0500, Earl Haase
wrote:

I am planning to purchase an SSB and am looking at ICOM and Furuno.

I recall in the past seeing some discussion on SSB selection that
included issues with wires sizes and connectors if I remember right.
Does anyone have any input on these two brands about these issues or
others?

Earl Haase



Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"

Larry W4CSC wrote:


The DSC receiver inside it uses a SEPARATE ANTENNA and has a SEPARATE
SO-239 antenna jack on the back. I guess Icom thinks I have it
installed aboard a Navy destroyer where there are lots of antennas to
connect it to.

How about it's because the radio can be used as part of a required GMDSS
installation on other than toy boats and the law requires a separate
receiver.

Icom thinks that the people installing the radio know what it is and
will install the radio in compliance with the laws regulating that
application.

Rick

The people you speak of would never trust their ships to a radio that
only cost $1800, Icom or no Icom......

The thing is marketed to small boat owners......


On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:19:58 GMT, Rick
wrote:

Larry W4CSC wrote:


The DSC receiver inside it uses a SEPARATE ANTENNA and has a SEPARATE
SO-239 antenna jack on the back. I guess Icom thinks I have it
installed aboard a Navy destroyer where there are lots of antennas to
connect it to.

How about it's because the radio can be used as part of a required GMDSS
installation on other than toy boats and the law requires a separate
receiver.

Icom thinks that the people installing the radio know what it is and
will install the radio in compliance with the laws regulating that
application.

Rick



Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"

I posted the following comments yesterday in a different thread. As
it says, I'm in pretty much the same place as Earl. BTW, there is an
interesting (although perhaps dated) discussion of radios at
http://www.sailmail.com/radios.htm

------

For what it's worth (which may be what you've paid for it), I saw a
lot of SSB radios on fishboats and workboats when we were looking for
Fintry.

Thes were fishboats on both coasts and workboats in the Gulf, places
like Morgan City. All owned by people and companies who squeeze a
penny hard and have experience across multiple boats.

I would say that the market split between SEA and SGC, with Icom
extremely rare (I can't remember one, but I can't swear to it). We did
see an Icom 710 on Tarapunga (ex RNZN survey vessel).

We took a Furuno 1502 around the world on Swee****er and I will
probably buy a 1503 for Fintry. That may change if I find an Icom
salesperson this week at Fort Lauderdale who will give me straight
answers to questions and not go off ranting about the (SE Asia racial
epithet) and (Asia racial epithet) who build their competitors'
equipment.

My experience in the past has been the slurs (same guy, at two
different shows) and a strong desire to upsell (several different
people) -- ask for an explanation of the practical differences between
the 700, 710, and 802 and you get the reasons to buy the most
expensive.

While I hear most of you guys believing in Icom, I am reluctant to
reward unacceptable behavior.


Jim Woodward
www.mvFintry.com



(Larry W4CSC) wrote in message ...
The people you speak of would never trust their ships to a radio that
only cost $1800, Icom or no Icom......

The thing is marketed to small boat owners......


On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:19:58 GMT, Rick
wrote:

Larry W4CSC wrote:


The DSC receiver inside it uses a SEPARATE ANTENNA and has a SEPARATE
SO-239 antenna jack on the back. I guess Icom thinks I have it
installed aboard a Navy destroyer where there are lots of antennas to
connect it to.

How about it's because the radio can be used as part of a required GMDSS
installation on other than toy boats and the law requires a separate
receiver.

Icom thinks that the people installing the radio know what it is and
will install the radio in compliance with the laws regulating that
application.

Rick



Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"

Thanks for the input and info about the Icom 802. I have a couple of
other questions.

First question
Does anyone know anything about the Furuno 1503EM?

Next question.
My Chris Craft had a counterpoise installed into the fiberglas bottom of
the boat when it was manufactured. I started asking around about how
much area this covered but have not gotten an answer yet. All I have so
far is that copper mesh was installed on another boat after the first
layer of fiberglass, after the gelcoat. So the question is - can I
install copper mesh as straps on the floor of the bilge and still have
it work. Meaning it will still act with the sal****er and not be
defeated by the existing copper that will be between it and the sea?
These boats were built with solid fiberglass. In other words, there was
not any foam core used. Just layer after layer of FG.

Connect it all to the existing counterpoise in as many places as you
can. The more ground the better......

When you put to sea for a long period, throw over 100 ft of any plain
hookup wire bigger than 18 guage and trail it out behind you as far as
you have wire for, a trailing wire counterpoise. Hook it to the
ground on your antenna tuner, at the antenna tuner and just let it lay
over the deck to the stern. Works great. Use insulated wire so the
salt doesn't eat it and dip the open end in 3M 5200 sealer long before
you use it to seal it up. The drag on the wire, alone will trail it
out but let it go deep. If you're sailing in shallow water, tie
something to drag it on the end so it will lay out flat. Obviously,
this is for OPEN water use, but you knew that...(c;

This also works at anchor. If you have an anchor chain, ground the
antenna tuner to the chain, maybe hooking it to the windlass if you
have one. If your anchor line is rope, just dangle the ground wire
over the side until it NEARLY touches the bottom, so it will follow
the boat around the anchor with the tide but not become fouled. That
helps increase your counterpoise efficiency, too. The use of more
dangling counterpoise wires, the better! An AM broadcast station
typically has 36 counterpoise wires laid out every 10 degrees, made of
bridge cable and welded to a common ground ring to hook the
transmitter to.



On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:09:45 -0500, Earl Haase
wrote:

Thanks for the input and info about the Icom 802. I have a couple of
other questions.

First question
Does anyone know anything about the Furuno 1503EM?

Next question.
My Chris Craft had a counterpoise installed into the fiberglas bottom of
the boat when it was manufactured. I started asking around about how
much area this covered but have not gotten an answer yet. All I have so
far is that copper mesh was installed on another boat after the first
layer of fiberglass, after the gelcoat. So the question is - can I
install copper mesh as straps on the floor of the bilge and still have
it work. Meaning it will still act with the sal****er and not be
defeated by the existing copper that will be between it and the sea?
These boats were built with solid fiberglass. In other words, there was
not any foam core used. Just layer after layer of FG.



Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"