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Dick Locke wrote:

On Mon, 17 May 2004 04:25:27 GMT, Roy Jose Lorr
wrote:

Dick Locke wrote:

On Sun, 16 May 2004 05:45:47 GMT, Roy Jose Lorr
wrote:

whining and puling
of the mush headed

One of the quickest ways for a newsgroup to degenerate is to have
people attacking the integrity of their opponents. Please respect the
sincere beliefs of those with whom you disagree without emotional
characterizations.

More 'mush headed whining and puling'

That's your argument? Are you twelve years old?

Which words didn't you understand? Are you a dummy?
--

The last stage of
utopian sentimentalism
is homicidal mania.

Dick Locke wrote:
"Armond Perretta" wrote:
Dick Locke wrote:

One of the quickest ways for a newsgroup to degenerate is to have
people attacking the integrity of their opponents. Please respect
the sincere beliefs of those with whom you disagree without
emotional characterizations.

Nonsense. That's bull****.

That's an argument?

Actually, Roy, it's a vain attempt at humor. I should have known better.

To paraphrase _your_ remark, one of the quickest way for a newsgroup to
degenerate is ... for people like you who should _also_ know better
to start giving lectures on behavior to other people you've never met.

Why you feel you should impose your own demands on complete strangers is
your own affair. In the meantime, please spare the long-suffering regulars
in this group the display of pomposity. Moral reformers have come and gone
here for years now, and another round of "thou shall's" or "thou shall
not's" is hardly necessary.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

Armond Perretta wrote:

Dick Locke wrote:
"Armond Perretta" wrote:
Dick Locke wrote:

One of the quickest ways for a newsgroup to degenerate is to have
people attacking the integrity of their opponents. Please respect
the sincere beliefs of those with whom you disagree without
emotional characterizations.

Nonsense. That's bull****.

That's an argument?

Actually, Roy, it's a vain attempt at humor. I should have known better.

To paraphrase _your_ remark, one of the quickest way for a newsgroup to
degenerate is ... for people like you who should _also_ know better
to start giving lectures on behavior to other people you've never met.

Why you feel you should impose your own demands on complete strangers is
your own affair. In the meantime, please spare the long-suffering regulars
in this group the display of pomposity. Moral reformers have come and gone
here for years now, and another round of "thou shall's" or "thou shall
not's" is hardly necessary.

Unless Dick Locke' name is also "Roy", it looks like you've addressed
him incorrectly. The remark you responded to is not mine.
--

The last stage of
utopian sentimentalism
is homicidal mania.

Roy Jose Lorr wrote:
Armond Perretta wrote:
Dick Locke wrote:
"Armond Perretta" wrote:
Dick Locke wrote:

One of the quickest ways for a newsgroup to degenerate is to
have people attacking the integrity of their opponents ...

... That's bull****.

That's an argument?

Actually, Roy [sic], it's a vain attempt at humor ...

To paraphrase _your_ remark, one of the quickest way for a
newsgroup to degenerate is ... for people like you ... to start giving
lectures on behavior ...

Unless Dick Locke' name is also "Roy", it looks like you've
addressed him incorrectly. The remark you responded to is not mine.

Quite correct, and I spotted the error immediately after hitting "Send."
However I still stand behind my statement,and unless I' very mistaken you
probably agree.

Thanks for the heads-up.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

Subject: Sailing Cuba
From: Glenn Ashmore

If you look back at history for the past 50 years, Coca Cola, Levis and
rock and roll have been more effective at bringing down dictators than
any embargo.

Just for the record, you can buy Coke in Cuba along with a host of other US
products.
Of course if, as a US citizen, if you do that you are violating US law.

Talk about hypocrisy.

Capt. Bill

LaBomba182 wrote:

Subject: Sailing Cuba
From: Glenn Ashmore

If you look back at history for the past 50 years, Coca Cola, Levis and
rock and roll have been more effective at bringing down dictators than
any embargo.

Just for the record, you can buy Coke in Cuba along with a host of other US
products.
Of course if, as a US citizen, if you do that you are violating US law.

Talk about hypocrisy.

Bowing to experience.
--

The last stage of
utopian sentimentalism
is homicidal mania.

More trash, when will this end???

May 2004 SOUTHWINDS www.southwindssailing.com 48
FLORIDA KEYS SAILING
I
t was a humid Easter Sunday when I
headed into Key Westâ€™s waterfront for
an exclusive interview with Mr. Peter
Goldsmith of the Conch Republic Cup.
Taking place for eight years, this race to
Cuba from Key West experienced diffi-culty
last year when officials from the
Department of Commerce seized the
private property of returning sailors.
The stolen personal items have not yet
been returned. Early this year, a grand
jury convened in Key West and people,
confused by the governmentâ€™s treatment
of a group of American citizens who
love to race sailboats and had raced to
Cuba, wanted to learn more. I sat with
Peter in the spacious loft of Geslin
Sailmakers overlooking the bight. Soon,
I learned of the events that may have
led up to the current prosecution of sail-ors
involved in the race.
The sailors had held their public
skipperâ€™s meeting in Key West the night
prior to the race on May 21st of 2003.
Accompanied by four men who were
wearing guns, Jonathan Barnes, from
the Department of Commerce, came to
the skipperâ€™s meeting and was shown
all relevant paperwork. A lawyer was
present along with the issuer of the ex-port
license, and these individuals con-vened
with Jonathan for at least a half
an hour. According to Peter, all Mr.
Barnes would say before he left the
meeting was, if this is what you think you
need to go to Cuba. The sentence ended
right there.
The next morning while the Conch
Republic Cup boats were casting off
their lines to start the race, officials
showed up at the docks and handed out
papers that required the boats to obtain
another type of export license. The rac-ers
were told not to go to Cuba. It is not
known why officials waited until the
boats were casting off when there had
been sufficient time months in advance
and an opportunity at the last nightâ€™s
skipperâ€™s meeting to give sailors notice
of this previously unknown requirement.
After the race, when the sailors re-turned
to Key West, authorities searched
the boats and seized various personal
items belonging to the sailors. By Feb-ruary
of 2004, various people involved
in the Conch Republic Cup were called
to testify before a grand jury in Key
West. The situation seems to concern an
export license requirement that the sail-ors
were not aware of and did not have.
Actual details of the grand juryâ€™s inten-tions
are not known.
Peter told me that Jonathan Barnes
had stopped by his house just before the
grand jury convened. He asked
Jonathan why wasnâ€™t anyone informed
of the additional export license during
the skippersâ€™ meeting when all paper
work was shown, verified and checked
over. Jonathanâ€™s response was to say
that it wasnâ€™t his job; it was someone
elseâ€™s department.
â€œThatâ€™s like entrapment,â€? Peter told me.
â€œBut entrapmentâ€™s not a legal argument
anymore so thereâ€™s really nothing we
can say. We just have to go through the
process, and this grand jury is trying to
determine whether we did something
criminal or not.â€?
For the eight years of racing, was
part of it to bring medicine, humani-tarian
aid? (In 2003, a number of boats
carried aid, but this is not considered to
be part of the violation; just the boats
and their destination are.) â€œNo. Iâ€™m not
political about this. Weâ€™re not doing this
race for any political reasons. Iâ€™m in it
because I like sailing and racing sail-boats.
Racing around here gets old, and
we were invited to race down there.â€?
You were invited? â€œYes, the com-modore
from Club Nautico at Marina
Hemingway invited us.â€? Peter went on
to explain that the racers were fully
hosted by Cuba. Eight years ago, the
Conch Republic Cup was first started
when a letter of invitation from the Cu-ban
commodore was sent to Key West
sailors at their local club. The Key West
Sailing Club backed out of all involve-ment
with the race after receiving cease
and desist orders from the Treasury De-partment.
Peter ended up with the race.
Was a specific reason given for the
cease and desist orders?
â€œBasically, they didnâ€™t want us to
go. Hereâ€™s what we based the race on
for all these years. First is our constitu-tional
right to travel. Second was that
the embargo on traveling to Cuba has
never been challenged in a court of law.
So this is what we based the race on until
they came up with this export license
last year. So we got an export license.
But it wasnâ€™t good enough. Can you
imagine? That theyâ€™re convening a
grand jury over this?â€?
Obviously confounded, Peter
plunked down his cigar, threw his hands
up in the air and said that heâ€™d heard of
a person from the South Pacific who was
subpoenaed and has to be flown over
to testify. People from all over the coun-try
are being subpoenaed.
Thatâ€™s a lot of work over a group
of sailboats just trying to do a race, isnâ€™t
it? Peter shrugged and told me about
one of his fellow sailors, Mark, who was
called in to testify. Mark told the pros-ecution
that he thought the export li-cense
the sailors had was sufficient; oth-erwise,
they wouldnâ€™t have gone to
Cuba. Why wouldnâ€™t the license be
good? Mark had asked. Prosecutionâ€™s
response was that the license wasnâ€™t
good enough, and the sailors needed
this other license. Markâ€™s response was
to say that itâ€™s just a technicality, right?
Peter shakes his head over the rec-ollection
of Markâ€™s words. He couldnâ€™t
believe that a grand jury would convene
over a trivial matter such as a technical-ity,
or that people would be prosecuted
for having the wrong license when they
had not been aware that it was wrong
in the first place.
Is this really what this whole thing
is based on? A wrong license? â€œWell,
you never know where a grand jury is
coming from. They hide their real inten-tions
and they donâ€™t tell you right away
because that would give you time to set
up a defense. With grand juries itâ€™s to-tally
one-sided. You canâ€™t go in with a
lawyer. Youâ€™re sitting there with the jury
and thirty-some people working for the
government, and these people are all
trying to convince the jury that you did
something wrong. This seems so uncon-stitutional
and against everything thatâ€™s
American.â€? Peter didnâ€™t believe that
there was anything in the Constitution
that supported the convening of a grand
jury, nor that there was anything mor-ally
or ethically correct about the
governmentâ€™s actions against the sailors.
Do you think that the government
is doing this because theyâ€™re worried
Interview with Peter Goldsmith, Organizer of the Conch Republic Cup Race to
Cuba:
Sailors Intimidated by Authorities â€” Race Cancelled
By Rebecca Burg

IMHO, y'all got off lucky - you weren't gassed, shot or burned to death.
There was no law against owning or creating a sawed off shotgun or assault
rifle when federal agents perpetrated the Ruby Ridge assault in which a teen
and his mother were murdered and Waco Texas massacre that murdered nearly
100. There was however a law requiring a $200 tax stamp on each one owned.
So these people were killed for merely associating with someone who may have
failed to pay these taxes. The sailing community ignored these atrocities
..... just like people are ignoring this one. Sic semper something.

More trash, when will this end??

Buenos dias senor's e senoritas,

This will end when the USA becomes a communist dictatorship under
me--Fidel Castro.

In CUBA we do not have grand juries. We don't have a constitution or
civil rights. We don't need them. We have ME!

Please keep supporting our workers paradise with your dollars and
boats!!!! Your USA hateful capitalist magazine Forbes just identified
that I have amassed a personal net worth of $110 million dollars. And
it's all mine. The workers in our paradise don't need the money so I
have taken it for myself. The workers love me and feel it's only
right that I--Fidel Castro--have this money.

You may be aware that I recently closed all the dollar stores for a
short while. You may think that I shut down these stores because I am
a greedy brutal dictator bent on keeping my people poor and punishing
private enterprise. You may think that I closed these stores because
they were the only places people could purchase any merchandise
because our government stores are empty of any worthwhile merchandise.
But that's not why.

I closed the dollar stores because I'm changing my swiss bank
accounts. All the accounts I had in Switzerland were so full of US
dollars that I have taken from the the people of CUBA, that I need to
find a bigger swiss bank.

Most happily, I have found a much bigger swiss bank that is now ready
to receive all the money I expect to steal from my people in the near
future.

So now the dollar stores are back open. Having the dollar stores, and
making the US dollar the official currency of CUBA has been a
wonderful thing. It saves the people's republic of CUBA from having
to waste money on printing presses to make our own currency. At it
makes it particularly convenient for me to steal US dollars and place
in my favorite swiss bank. (Ha Ha-I got this idea from the hateful
german NAZI's)

I strongly suggest everyone seize their own country and take the
property from all it's citizens. It is a great way to make money and
best of all, you will have to pay no taxes.

Then you will have lot's of extra time to spend cruising the ocean and
calling other contributers to news groups "morons" and "stupid" if
they don't agree with you.

CommieFidel

CommieFidel wrote:
snip
yawn...who says chimps can't type?

beldar wrote:

CommieFidel wrote:
snip
yawn...who says chimps can't type?

Brilliant refutation.
--

The last stage of
utopian sentimentalism
is homicidal mania.