Fuel polishing system report
 

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 23:30:06 -0500, wrote:

In fact, I have to monitor things carefully and turn on interior
lights to bleed off the surplus, so I don't overcharge the batteries
when motorsailing with the outboard running - even at low speeds.

Voltage regulator? Evidently the one you have is not smart enough.

Casady

Fuel polishing system report
 

On Nov 12, 12:59*pm, Martin Baxter wrote:
Capt John wrote: Using more restrictive filters can
cause problems with your supply pump, or, even worse, cause the engine
to run lean. That will cause the engine to run hot and, over the long
run, cause all kinds of other problems.

Huh? Diesels do not run "lean". *Hint, think about you control
power/speed in a diesel.

Cheers
Martin

Wrong, wrong, wrong. You can run a diesel lean, when you have a
restricted fuel system, like your filters are clogged, it's starving
for fuel. Dead give away, the exhaust temperature starts to rise. If
you've got pyromiters you can see it right away. I've got Cats in my
boat, I don't need to look at the fliters to tell their clogging, the
engine temperature starts to rise. Change out the filters, and it
drops back to normal.

Fuel polishing system report
 

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 23:30:06 -0500, wrote:

Amp hours per what time period? His assertions are wild and without
merit. I rarely leave my RADAR in transmit mode full time unless
warranted by the conditions and situation.

20 to 30 amps is the average usage of the electrical and electronic
equipment on my boat use which is probably representative of well
equipped long range cruisers whether they be sail or power. I agree
that on a boat of your size, doing local cruising, power demand is no
doubt much lower. Obviously your power is adequate for your boat - no
problem with that. My original assertion was that most outboards
offer limited battery charging capability. As a rule that is a true
statement but yours may be different.

You probably know this already but per the COLREGS boats equipped with
radar are supposed to use it:

Rule 7

Risk of Collision

(b) Proper use shall be made of radar equipment if fitted and
operational, including long-range scanning to obtain early warning of
risk of collision and radar plotting or equivalent systematic
observation of detected objects.

Fuel polishing system report
 

On Nov 12, 2:46*pm, You wrote:
In article , Martin Baxter
wrote:

Capt John wrote: Using more restrictive filters can
cause problems with your supply pump, or, even worse, cause the engine
to run lean. That will cause the engine to run hot and, over the long
run, cause all kinds of other problems.

Huh? Diesels do not run "lean". *Hint, think about you control
power/speed in a diesel.

Cheers
Martin

Just one of a few of Capt. John's misconceptions......

You need to study up a little, try asking your engine manufacturer
about those filters. The marine specialist at HO Penn, our local Cat
dealer on Long Island, was adamant about this. Said regardless of the
engine manufacturer, they specify the 30 micron filters for a reason.
Your probably more likely to get away with it with a little sail boat
engine than a larger high output engine. For the price of a rebuild,
or replacement, I'll take the manufacturers advice over your's and day
of the week.

Fuel polishing system report
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
You probably know this already but per the COLREGS boats equipped with
radar are supposed to use it:

Rule 7

Risk of Collision

(b) Proper use shall be made of radar equipment if fitted and
operational, including long-range scanning to obtain early warning of
risk of collision and radar plotting or equivalent systematic
observation of detected objects.


'Proper use' does not compel you to have your radar going at all times.

Fuel polishing system report
 

"Edgar" wrote in message
...

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
You probably know this already but per the COLREGS boats equipped with
radar are supposed to use it:

Rule 7

Risk of Collision

(b) Proper use shall be made of radar equipment if fitted and
operational, including long-range scanning to obtain early warning of
risk of collision and radar plotting or equivalent systematic
observation of detected objects.


'Proper use' does not compel you to have your radar going at all times.



Correct. It would be a matter of trade-offs between say running the
batteries into the ground vs. keeping watch at critical times. Of course,
the Admiralty Court would determine this after the fact.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Fuel polishing system report
 

"Edgar" wrote in message
...

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
You probably know this already but per the COLREGS boats equipped with
radar are supposed to use it:

Rule 7

Risk of Collision

(b) Proper use shall be made of radar equipment if fitted and
operational, including long-range scanning to obtain early warning of
risk of collision and radar plotting or equivalent systematic
observation of detected objects.


'Proper use' does not compel you to have your radar going at all times.


Wrong! Look at the way the sentence is written. What it's really saying is
this: (b) Proper use shall be made of radar equipment if fitted and
operational. Proper use includes long-range scanning to obtain early warning
of risk of collision and radar plotting or equivalent systematic observation
of detected objects.

Now, I ask you, how is one to do long range scanning, radar plotting or
equivalent systematic observation of detected objects if the system is
switched off? The answer is you cannot, therefore you are in violation of
the rule.

No, it is cleat that if radar is installed and operational it must be used
for the above when underway.

Wilbur Hubbard

Fuel polishing system report
 

"Capt John" wrote

You need to study up a little, try asking your engine manufacturer
about those filters. The marine specialist at HO Penn, our local Cat
dealer on Long Island, was adamant about this. Said regardless of the
engine manufacturer, they specify the 30 micron filters for a reason.

My experience with manufacturers and reps is that they will often give the
advice that is best for them and not the customer.
There was a big controversy going on about mixture control on aircraft when
I left flying. The mixture is adjusted constantly on general aviation
engines and the engine manufacturers were still giving the advice that put
the most stress on the engines, minimized their life, and fouled up the
cylinders the most with ash. Why? Because running the engines the way that
was best for the individual owner meant that everything about the engine had
to be nearly perfect. A slight induction leak or otherwise minor problem
would make the engine rough. If they advised people to run the engines
properly, they would be plagued with people coming back and complaining that
their engine was rough. So, they told them to run them the way that made
the engines the most tolerant even though they burned more fuel and didn't
last as long. It was more important to them that their engines have a
reputation for being smooth and trouble free than that the be economical on
fuel and last longer. Not strictly applicable to this but just to point out
that you should take info like Penn's with a grain of salt, even in aviation
where people die when the engine quites. Running the engine in my plane
properly also alerted me when a small problem like a loosening clamp on an
induction hose was developing and we could have it tracked down and fixed.

Your probably more likely to get away with it with a little sail boat
engine than a larger high output engine. For the price of a rebuild,
or replacement, I'll take the manufacturers advice over your's and day
of the week.

What is it between 2mu and 30 mu in size that is vital for the engine to
digest or else it will become unservicable?

There is usually a filter mounted on the engine that is part of the engine
and came as standard equipment. The flow and pressure drops of this filter
MAY have little enough margin and tolerance for what the engine mounted fuel
pump can handle that putting in an element that MIGHT be more restrictive
could cause problems for the engine mounted fuel pump. If this could occure
in a few cases, reps like HO Penn will translate it into gospel.

We're talking here about the filters upstream in the system which are part
of the fuel system; not the engine. These are usually accompanied by
separate feed or boost pumps or day tanks that put a pressure head on the
system. If you are delivering fuel to the engine mounted fuel pump at
pressure, as on my boat, it can't possibly matter what filter element is in
the primary filter.

I use the engine maufacturer supplied and recommended element in the filter
that is on the engine and painted the same color because it came with the
engine and there isn't much choice anyway.

--
Roger Long

Fuel polishing system report
 

On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 09:19:59 -0800 (PST), Capt John
wrote:

rong, wrong, wrong. You can run a diesel lean, when you have a
restricted fuel system

Lean or rich describes fuel air mixtures, and Diesels don't even have
them.
Even so, lean lowers the temp.So does rich. Airplanes have a mixture
control and if you have an EGT gauge, it is easy to see it in action.
Lower temperatures on both the rich and lean sides of a peak. Lean,
you have less fuel heating the same ammount of air. This raises the
temperature how? It doesn't.

Casady

Fuel polishing system report
 

In article ,
Bruce in alaska wrote:

In article ,
"Roger Long" wrote:

Bruce in alaska wrote:

I've run Diesel from 55USG Drums filled during WWII, with no problem,
whatsoever. This stuff is over 50 years old, and makes power in my
Gensets, just spiffy.....

Interesting. Were those drums sealed all these years? I wonder if WWII
diesel (different stuff than we have today) sealed into drums with the
intention that it would be stored for a long time would give the same
results as modern diesel that's been sitting in 3/4 to 1/2 full drums in
the
sun for a few weeks.

My original comment about drums was really just shorthand for the reports
I've received about poor fuel quality up in Newfoundland where the fishing
restrictions have slowed sales to the point that stuff which is a long way
down the supply chain anyway gets pretty funky. There were a few problems
here in Maine this summer simply because the long hoses at some marinas
would grow stuff when no one came along for days to buy due to the high
prices earlier in the summer.

Sealed Drums, filled in 1944 by the US Navy. Straight #2 Diesel, no
addatives or other crap. My Tank Farm has 250K USG of Diesel #2, and 15K
USG of Diesel #1 in it, and after a winter, we get less than 40 USG of
water out of ALL 20 Tanks. Never had to treat ANY of the Diesel with
Biocide, since we switched to receiving our fuel in 6000 USG
Over-the-Road Tanks on a Freight Barge, rather than from the Fuel Barge
with Sea Water Ballasting, and that was 20 years ago. I still keep a few
of those Navy Surplus Drums of fuel around for emergencies, as it is
KNOWN GOOD Fuel. RaCor filters are a wondrous thing, I use them
exclusively, both for the Winter and Summer Powerhouses, as well as on
the lines to the Fuel Dock. Never had a problem with ANY of the Diesel
Fuel System. Now the Gasoline Stuff is a TOTALLY Different deal......

In article
,
Capt John wrote:

On Nov 12, 2:46*pm, You wrote:
In article , Martin Baxter
wrote:

Capt John wrote: Using more restrictive filters can
cause problems with your supply pump, or, even worse, cause the engine
to run lean. That will cause the engine to run hot and, over the long
run, cause all kinds of other problems.

Huh? Diesels do not run "lean". *Hint, think about you control
power/speed in a diesel.

Cheers
Martin

Just one of a few of Capt. John's misconceptions......

You need to study up a little, try asking your engine manufacturer
about those filters. The marine specialist at HO Penn, our local Cat
dealer on Long Island, was adamant about this. Said regardless of the
engine manufacturer, they specify the 30 micron filters for a reason.
Your probably more likely to get away with it with a little sail boat
engine than a larger high output engine. For the price of a rebuild,
or replacement, I'll take the manufacturers advice over your's and day
of the week.

Your ity bity KittyCAT Diesels don't even come close to the BIG YELLOW
CAT's in my Summer PowerHouse. (2.8 MegaWatts worth) Our CAT Service
Folks spec'd and installed MULTIPLE Racor 2020 10 Micron Primary Fuel
Filters on the 4" fuel line that feeds the PowerHouse from the Tank Farm.
The PowerHouse was Designed by Ed Wahl, one of CAT's most repected Power
Generation Engineer dudes, who taught a whole Generation of CAT Field
Service Folks how to do their JOBs, being the CAT Power Generation
Engineering Instructor, in his later life.

If your running your filters until the engine is getting "Starved for
Fuel", and "running lean", then your and absolute Moroooooon, (Bugs Bunny
Definition) as that would mean that there isn't enough fuel to fully
fill the Injectors each time they fire, AND that also means that there
would be NO fuel coming back thru the Fuel Return Line, AND consequently
No Cooling of the Injector Tips, which is the Primary Reason for the
Fuel Return Line, in the FIRST PLACE. Very Good way to BURN OUT the
Injector Tips on your CATs, Sonny.... Just where did you learn your
Diesel Engineering.... Dufus's R Us???

--
Bruce in alaska
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