Cruising in Poverty
 

Is that why she's an ''ex'' ?

SV

"Rick Morel" wrote

My ex and I cruised for 2-1/2 years aboard a Coronado 35 equipped with
solar and wind generators that supplied all the power we needed;
autopilot and electronic/GPS charting and watermaker. It was totally
self-contained. We mostly anchored out and had about a year of food
aboard. Some months our cost was $0.00, others a few hundred. A friend
spent about 6 years with his son and daughter, using the engine a lot
to move and to charge batteries. They almost always anchored out. He
said it averaged about $300 a month.

Cruising in Poverty
 

"Remco Moedt" wrote

Well, since I live in the Netherlands, I don't think 2 pair of shorts
will cut it.... :-)

So sail south.

Cruising in Poverty
 

Where the heck do you find enough storage for a years supply of food on
a Coronado 35? I'm having trouble finding space for two months on my 37'
Irwin.
Kelton
Isle Escape

Rick Morel wrote:
On 03 May 2004 05:17:00 GMT, (Location29) wrote:


I've only got $20,000 for a boat and a paltry $1500.
a month in income is there any hope for me to cruise fulltime
or should I just go buy a condo with a water view?


Depends. What is your lifestyle? Are you going to cruise from marina
to marina or anchor out? Boat. Sailboat? How big do you think you
need? Must you have a "late model" or is an much older one in good
condition okay?

My ex and I cruised for 2-1/2 years aboard a Coronado 35 equipped with
solar and wind generators that supplied all the power we needed;
autopilot and electronic/GPS charting and watermaker. It was totally
self-contained. We mostly anchored out and had about a year of food
aboard. Some months our cost was $0.00, others a few hundred. A friend
spent about 6 years with his son and daughter, using the engine a lot
to move and to charge batteries. They almost always anchored out. He
said it averaged about $300 a month.


I'm now looking at a 26-footer for just me. Lots less money to
purchase and maintain. I do plan on adding solar, watermaker and
tillerpilot. To me these are necessities since my thing is to get away
from it all and spend extended time anchored off those "deserted
islands".


The below is from my now offline web page:


June 5, 2002. The below was written before we set sail. It was a
combination
of memories from 29 years ago, cruising aboard a 22-footer and common
sense.
After more than a year and a half, and 3,000 NM under the keel, I
still stand by
it with only one exception. Cellphone Internet is now reliable and
relativly inexpensive.

I wrote the following in response to some questions on the
rec.boats.cruising newsgroup.
Someone wrote:
My dream is to take a multi-year sabbatical from my job, SOLO
cruising
Central and South America in my SAILBOAT. If I went on the
cheap (i.e.
mooring vs. tying up, avoiding marina/tourist bars/restaurants,
provisioning
from less touristy areas, and whatever else I could do to shave
costs) -
what would it take to finance the voyage?
Then someone calling themselves "Money" wrote:
I don't know why this is always such a difficult question - how do
you
live at home? High on the hog - or in a frugal even cheap style? Do
you run with the spendthrift crowd plastic charged to the limit - or
drive a 6 year old car?

So, I put on my thinking cap and wrote:
I think it is always such a difficult question because the "asker" is
thinking about boat/cruising related expenses, including touristy
areas vs. more out-of-the-way places. Perhaps "wondering about" would
be a better term. As obvious as it sounds, when you don't know, you
don't know!
But Mr. Money does have a point. How _do_ you live at home? Are you
willing to change if necessary? Everyone has different needs, or at
least perceived needs. Years ago a friend's dad, recently retired,
told me he only got $xxxx a month now and had to find a job because he
and his wife simply could not survive on that. At the time, his $xxxx
was almost TWICE our income! We were comfortable and would have been
living high on the hog with his. It is true, it's very easy to get
used to an increase in income, but very, very difficult to get used to
a decrease.

Disclaimer: What follows are my thoughts and opinions, based on living
aboard years ago and our current situation, which is getting our boat
ready for a change back to the live-aboard cruising life. We've asked
ourselves these questions and hopefully found the answers we can live
with. Lastly, free advice is sometimes worth what you pay for it.

I think the first step is for someone contemplating this is to really
look at your lifestyle and current expenses. Decide what you must have
and what you can do without.
All this should be obvious, but....
In today's high tech, power hungry world, if your must-haves include
things that use electricity, seriously look at how you're going to
provide that power. If by plugging in or generator, it's going to cost
big bucks. If by solar, wind generator and inverter, you'll have a
one-time investment plus battery replacements. But, and a big BUT, you
can't just draw power from the system without thought of how much you
have available. Don't forget you have to run certain things as well,
lights, including nav/anchor lights, bilge pump, watermaker, GPS,
fathometer, etc. It's almost imposible these days to go the oil lamp
no power route!
Communications. Do you really need a cell-phone? Internet access? If
so, add a lot of dollar signs! If you make money that way, it's
justifiable. You may not need all the time access, just when working.
If you do "need" all the time, anywhere, do some digging and checking
to find the best service for you. It will be EXPEN$IVE. If you just
need email to keep in touch with family and friends, there is a
service using Marine SSB for about $200 a year; or get an Amateur
radio license if you don't have one and use ham email. It's free, but
no commercial stuff allowed. Both are good safety devices and there
are ham marine nets where you can get messages passed along or even
"phone patch" (talk on the telephone) to a family member or friend.
That out of the way. Food. Ya' gotta' eat, no matter where you are.
How much do you spend now for food? If you eat out or get take-away a
lot, maybe now is the time to change that to see if you can live that
way and to get a more accurate picture of cost. If not, then add in
that humongrously greater food cost! Are you happy eating out of cans
with the occasional "bouts" of fresh? Are you creative putting
together a meal from said cans? Do you like cheap things that don't
require refrigeration -- rice, pasta, flour for making bread, etc.? Do
you like seafood and are you good at catching it (don't count on it,
but accept the free addition when available)? Do you just have to have
prime rib and sirloin? Are you going to need refrigeration all the
time? Another power eater and/or pain-in-the-neck and expense getting
ice if so. Now you gotta' cook said food. The general consensus seems
to be the best way to go is propane. It's cheap, clean and available.
Our experiences confirmed that. We found those years ago that it's
very wise to have two propane bottles -- run one dry then switch and
get the other refilled. Most folks report a 20-lb. tank will last them
about three months. Maybe we don't cook as "fancy" because we found it
lasted us closer to five or even six months.
Entertainment. Strictly your call. If you now spend a bunch and don't
think you'll be able to afford it, then I'd suggest at least cutting
way back right now. Substitute things that are free or cheap. The old
walks in the park or along the beach/river type things; cheap
pasttimes such as what? Macrame, fancy rope work, reading, keeping a
journal, solitaire, researching old ship wrecks, building ships in
bottles. Okay, okay, I'm getting a bit way out here; but can you find
such things to do and do you like 'um? There are times when you're
pretty much stuck on board and times when you can go out exploring,
and times when you have to work; either on the boat on at a real job.
Just like at home.
Addictions. Do you smoke? Drink a lot? Take drugs? Okay, you don't
have to answer _me_! :-) But, if your answer is "yes" to any, can you
support the habit? If not, NOW is the time to quit!
Health. Do you have a health problem that requires medication? Any
special requirements?
Well, that should about do it for questions about lifestyle that you,
and only you, can answer.


Da' boat related stuff:
Are you handy with tools and things mechanical? Can you do all or most
of the work on your boat? Actually there are very few folks that can't
when you come right down to it. You may not know how now, but most
everyone can learn. It is most definitely worth learning! Otherwise,
you could be facing an out-of-the-blue expense that'll wipe out your
whole cruising fund! There's a whole bunch of info on the web and many
books available. Add to that the fact that most boaters are willing,
if not eager, to share experiences.
Fuel. If your's is a power boat, find out how much it's going to take.
If sail, how much will you use the engine? We know one live-aboard
cruiser with a nice sailboat, but he's never even seen the sails! He
told us his fuel bill runs about $45 a month. We tend to mostly
"forget" we have an engine and use it only when absolutely necessary.
There are things that need fairly regular replacement. Check your
owner's manuals :-) Seriously, make a list of such items along with
frequency and cost. These should mostly be fuel, oil and water
filters, but find out. Don't forget toilet paper and the like! There's
really no way to budget for unexpected failures, but it would be wise
to have some bucks available for them. That is, set some amount that
you feel comfortable with as a minimum and pretend your liquid assets
have reached zero when you have that much left. Otherwise, you may
find yourself stranded with a "broken boat" and no way to generate
revenue. IOW, getting a job.

Marinas, moorings and such. Now we get into the Great Unknown! I more
than suspect those folks that "get by" on only $2,000 a month or more
spend quite a lot of time at marinas and/or must spend a lot of nights
at them while underway. You can almost always anchor out, but there
are some places where paying that precious money is the only way. In
the past, we've run into places where you have to hand over $25 or
more just to tie up and buy food from them, and out-of-the way places
where we've rented a slip for $50 a month and even less. We've stayed
at fishing ports where you just pick a spot and tie up, either to the
dock or another boat. Of course, you may wake up one morning and find
there's a 50-foot shrimpboat tied up to you and a 40-foot one tied up
to it! Or be awakened at 3 AM and asked to pull out so the boat you're
tied to can get underway. Everything does have some price, either in
money or convenience or sweat :-) There's just so many varibles and it
depends a lot on where you are. Free or cheap _can_ be found almost
all the time if you're willing to spend the time looking and talking
to other cruisers and locals, and probably put up with some added work
and/or inconvenience.
Entry fees and such. Do some searching on the web. Most countries have
a site that lists the requirements and fees. Again, talk to others
along the way. Once you've committed, this is the best way to get (and
give) information. Oh, and don't forget fuel in many countries is a
lot more expensive than in the US!

I think the bottom line question is a two-parter:
1 - How much are you willing to give up in trade for what you're
going to get out of it?
2 - How flexible are you?
Question 1 applies to life in general. We're making those choices
every day.
Question 2 to me is the real biggie. This kind of life is a constant
change. There are so many differences and possibilies from one port to
the next. Are you on the one extreme that just loves change? If so,
you're gonna' have a blast! The other extrene that just hates change?
You're going to hate it. Hmmm... you may want to rethink. Somewhere in
the middle like most of us? Well, you're probably going to have a
blast sometimes and going to have those times you just hate. Well
duhhhh... Come to think of it, you're probably having a blast and/or
hating your life right now!
Along the same line is "culture shock" if you're looking at voyaging
to other countries. Come to think of it, that can apply in the US --
us Sout' Loo-si-anna 'Cajuns really get a kick out of some "yankee"
reactions! Seriously, this is really a concern. Can you accept and
adapt? That old cliche', "When in Rome...", really applies here. I
have seen some folks really "freak out" and some that wound up in a
foreign jail. Remember that now you are the foreigner!

Well, I've written quite a bit here and I hope it generates some
thought. It's a big change to tackle, but it's just living life. Like
any "life", there are things you need to learn; things you need to
have; things you need to give up; good times and bad. It's not a
magical life, all filled with calm waters and beautiful beaches and
coconuts falling out of the trees onto your plate, but neither is it
constant storms and fighting the sea and spending fortunes on dockage.
Bear in mind it is a life that relies a lot on independence and self
reliance. Most of the time the buck stops with you. It requires taking
care of things RIGHT NOW a lot of the time. I forget who, but I recall
some football player said this. "It's like fighting with a 600-lb
gorilla. You don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla
gets tired."
Try it, you'll like it! Or not. If not you can hopefully sell your
dreamboat, get all or most your money back and go back to your old
life. Give it enough of a chance though. Our "mantra" when we first
moved aboard was, "We'll get used to it!" Like any change, there is
a lot to "get used to" and only you can decide if you want to.


Rick

Cruising in Poverty
 

But you are not bitter bb ........ ;-)


"bb" wrote in message
...
On 03 May 2004 05:17:00 GMT, (Location29) wrote:

I've only got $20,000 for a boat and a paltry $1500.
a month in income is there any hope for me to cruise fulltime
or should I just go buy a condo with a water view?

From my experience, a single male can cruise comfortably on a 20K boat
with $1,500 a month living expense. Add a female to the mix and your
entry level boat goes to about 125K and monthly expenses begin at
about $6,000.

bb

Cruising in Poverty
 

"bb" wrote in message
...
From my experience, a single male can cruise comfortably on a 20K boat
with $1,500 a month living expense. Add a female to the mix and your
entry level boat goes to about 125K and monthly expenses begin at
about $6,000.

bb
"Pat Noonan" wrote in message
...
But you are not bitter bb ........ ;-)



No, just realistic :{))

Citing personal experience, if I were to do it alone (which I probably
wouldn't - who wants to do all that neat stuff without sharing it??), I
could have easily bought the first boat we bareboated - a Freedom 32 which
needed some work - at 20k this year. At that price, with a cash purchase,
I'd self-insure.

It would have been fine for me - alone - and I have no doubt that I could
have added a couple grand worth of renewable power, and ditched the engine,
which was a recently rebuilt (but not yet reinstalled - it broke when we had
it, and hadn't been installed after rebuild nearly two years later) 3GM30,
perhaps at a net no-change. I have no doubt whatsoever that left to my own
devices I could live on less than 100 a month, plus upkeep/maintenance.

However, in the end, we bought in that price range. Luckily for us, I don't
think it will take the monthly costs to make it, as we share the same
philosophy - but if she liked wine more, and the AC at the dock, we could
easily be in the second range, too.

As Rick said, you have to seriously monitor your current lifestyle to see
what you're willing to do without...

L8R

Skip and Lydia

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2


--
"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a
clear night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize
that you are quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to
you that in the general scheme of things you are merely an
insignificant speck on the surface of the ocean; and are not nearly
so important or as self-sufficient as you thought you were. Which is
an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one that may effect a
permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly appreciated
by your friends." - James S. Pitkin

Cruising in Poverty
 

Location29 wrote:
I've only got $20,000 for a boat and a paltry $1500.
a month in income is there any hope for me to cruise fulltime
or should I just go buy a condo with a water view?


Where?
New Brunswick?

Sail through the reversing falls, tie up at the public market wharf
under the Delta Sheraton, walk to everything downtown in 5 minutes.

Upriver to Evandale, Washdemoak, Grand lake, Gagetown, Fredericton.
There are many old public warves. Major boat services available.

Take a month.

Facilities are all available. You will find fishing, free frog
baits, island beachs, 1 or 2 cows, a museum or two, art,
barbershops, taverns, showers, 4 star restraunts and hamburger
stands, all nearby on inland waters, great for the kids. Brave the
North Atlantic and reversing falls, or charter / hire upriver.

Cruising guides available at the St. John, NB market are probably ok
for a tour, standard bouys are used. Try following the Marblehead -
Halifax race in August. They often detour through Grand Lake on the
way home, a great family week!

No, I don't work for the tourism department, but can offer contact
info. I just hope it doesn't get to be too poular! It's deserted,
now. It's a great way to get out of the southern heat on a friendly
river.

I may build a trebuchet, and sell rides:-)

Terry K

Cruising in Poverty
 

Depends. What is your lifestyle? Are you going to cruise from marina
to marina or anchor out? Boat. Sailboat? How big do you think you
need? Must you have a "late model" or is an much older one in good
condition okay? BRBR

Original poster here,
Thanks for the responses to my question, very
much appreciated. I probably should have said
that my lifestyle is a simple one and I'll be single handing about 80% of the
time. I realize marinas
are not going to be the norm and anchoring/mooring
will be my lot in life. With that in mind any recommendations on boat type??
Shallow draft would be an advantage I suppose. My plan is to
sail mostly the Florida area, any areas with cheaper
marinas? I know the keys are high priced.

Mark

Cruising in Poverty
 

Yea, isn't that the point? ;-)

--


Keith
__
No husband has ever been shot while doing the dishes.
"Vito" wrote in message
...
"Remco Moedt" wrote

Well, since I live in the Netherlands, I don't think 2 pair of shorts
will cut it.... :-)

So sail south.

Cruising in Poverty
 

On Mon, 03 May 2004 05:56:49 -0500, Rick Morel wrote:

Lot's of info snipped

On Mon, 03 May 2004 12:25:31 GMT, (Remco
Moedt) wrote:
Nice story! What I do miss however is the part about laundry...how do
you wash your clothes?

What clothes? Seriously, we had tried one of those Amish washers. It
worked but was really a lot of trouble to use and difficult to store.
Wound up using a 5-gal bucket and a small toilet plunger. It actually
uses less fresh water to wash and rinse than to use sal****er, then
rinse with fresh. Of course having a watermaker helped.

Rick

Cruising in Poverty
 

On Mon, 03 May 2004 15:20:48 GMT, "Scott Vernon"
wrote:

Is that why she's an ''ex'' ?

SV

No. Actually selling the house, business, all that and cruising was
her idea. More an insistance. She decided she prefered women was the
reason.

Rick