Cruising in Poverty
 

I've only got $20,000 for a boat and a paltry $1500.
a month in income is there any hope for me to cruise fulltime
or should I just go buy a condo with a water view?

Cruising in Poverty
 

On 03 May 2004 05:17:00 GMT, (Location29) wrote:

I've only got $20,000 for a boat and a paltry $1500.
a month in income is there any hope for me to cruise fulltime
or should I just go buy a condo with a water view?

Depends. What is your lifestyle? Are you going to cruise from marina
to marina or anchor out? Boat. Sailboat? How big do you think you
need? Must you have a "late model" or is an much older one in good
condition okay?

My ex and I cruised for 2-1/2 years aboard a Coronado 35 equipped with
solar and wind generators that supplied all the power we needed;
autopilot and electronic/GPS charting and watermaker. It was totally
self-contained. We mostly anchored out and had about a year of food
aboard. Some months our cost was $0.00, others a few hundred. A friend
spent about 6 years with his son and daughter, using the engine a lot
to move and to charge batteries. They almost always anchored out. He
said it averaged about $300 a month.


I'm now looking at a 26-footer for just me. Lots less money to
purchase and maintain. I do plan on adding solar, watermaker and
tillerpilot. To me these are necessities since my thing is to get away
from it all and spend extended time anchored off those "deserted
islands".


The below is from my now offline web page:


June 5, 2002. The below was written before we set sail. It was a
combination
of memories from 29 years ago, cruising aboard a 22-footer and common
sense.
After more than a year and a half, and 3,000 NM under the keel, I
still stand by
it with only one exception. Cellphone Internet is now reliable and
relativly inexpensive.

I wrote the following in response to some questions on the
rec.boats.cruising newsgroup.
Someone wrote:
My dream is to take a multi-year sabbatical from my job, SOLO
cruising
Central and South America in my SAILBOAT. If I went on the
cheap (i.e.
mooring vs. tying up, avoiding marina/tourist bars/restaurants,
provisioning
from less touristy areas, and whatever else I could do to shave
costs) -
what would it take to finance the voyage?
Then someone calling themselves "Money" wrote:
I don't know why this is always such a difficult question - how do
you
live at home? High on the hog - or in a frugal even cheap style? Do
you run with the spendthrift crowd plastic charged to the limit - or
drive a 6 year old car?

So, I put on my thinking cap and wrote:
I think it is always such a difficult question because the "asker" is
thinking about boat/cruising related expenses, including touristy
areas vs. more out-of-the-way places. Perhaps "wondering about" would
be a better term. As obvious as it sounds, when you don't know, you
don't know!
But Mr. Money does have a point. How _do_ you live at home? Are you
willing to change if necessary? Everyone has different needs, or at
least perceived needs. Years ago a friend's dad, recently retired,
told me he only got $xxxx a month now and had to find a job because he
and his wife simply could not survive on that. At the time, his $xxxx
was almost TWICE our income! We were comfortable and would have been
living high on the hog with his. It is true, it's very easy to get
used to an increase in income, but very, very difficult to get used to
a decrease.

Disclaimer: What follows are my thoughts and opinions, based on living
aboard years ago and our current situation, which is getting our boat
ready for a change back to the live-aboard cruising life. We've asked
ourselves these questions and hopefully found the answers we can live
with. Lastly, free advice is sometimes worth what you pay for it.

I think the first step is for someone contemplating this is to really
look at your lifestyle and current expenses. Decide what you must have
and what you can do without.
All this should be obvious, but....
In today's high tech, power hungry world, if your must-haves include
things that use electricity, seriously look at how you're going to
provide that power. If by plugging in or generator, it's going to cost
big bucks. If by solar, wind generator and inverter, you'll have a
one-time investment plus battery replacements. But, and a big BUT, you
can't just draw power from the system without thought of how much you
have available. Don't forget you have to run certain things as well,
lights, including nav/anchor lights, bilge pump, watermaker, GPS,
fathometer, etc. It's almost imposible these days to go the oil lamp
no power route!
Communications. Do you really need a cell-phone? Internet access? If
so, add a lot of dollar signs! If you make money that way, it's
justifiable. You may not need all the time access, just when working.
If you do "need" all the time, anywhere, do some digging and checking
to find the best service for you. It will be EXPEN$IVE. If you just
need email to keep in touch with family and friends, there is a
service using Marine SSB for about $200 a year; or get an Amateur
radio license if you don't have one and use ham email. It's free, but
no commercial stuff allowed. Both are good safety devices and there
are ham marine nets where you can get messages passed along or even
"phone patch" (talk on the telephone) to a family member or friend.
That out of the way. Food. Ya' gotta' eat, no matter where you are.
How much do you spend now for food? If you eat out or get take-away a
lot, maybe now is the time to change that to see if you can live that
way and to get a more accurate picture of cost. If not, then add in
that humongrously greater food cost! Are you happy eating out of cans
with the occasional "bouts" of fresh? Are you creative putting
together a meal from said cans? Do you like cheap things that don't
require refrigeration -- rice, pasta, flour for making bread, etc.? Do
you like seafood and are you good at catching it (don't count on it,
but accept the free addition when available)? Do you just have to have
prime rib and sirloin? Are you going to need refrigeration all the
time? Another power eater and/or pain-in-the-neck and expense getting
ice if so. Now you gotta' cook said food. The general consensus seems
to be the best way to go is propane. It's cheap, clean and available.
Our experiences confirmed that. We found those years ago that it's
very wise to have two propane bottles -- run one dry then switch and
get the other refilled. Most folks report a 20-lb. tank will last them
about three months. Maybe we don't cook as "fancy" because we found it
lasted us closer to five or even six months.
Entertainment. Strictly your call. If you now spend a bunch and don't
think you'll be able to afford it, then I'd suggest at least cutting
way back right now. Substitute things that are free or cheap. The old
walks in the park or along the beach/river type things; cheap
pasttimes such as what? Macrame, fancy rope work, reading, keeping a
journal, solitaire, researching old ship wrecks, building ships in
bottles. Okay, okay, I'm getting a bit way out here; but can you find
such things to do and do you like 'um? There are times when you're
pretty much stuck on board and times when you can go out exploring,
and times when you have to work; either on the boat on at a real job.
Just like at home.
Addictions. Do you smoke? Drink a lot? Take drugs? Okay, you don't
have to answer _me_! :-) But, if your answer is "yes" to any, can you
support the habit? If not, NOW is the time to quit!
Health. Do you have a health problem that requires medication? Any
special requirements?
Well, that should about do it for questions about lifestyle that you,
and only you, can answer.


Da' boat related stuff:
Are you handy with tools and things mechanical? Can you do all or most
of the work on your boat? Actually there are very few folks that can't
when you come right down to it. You may not know how now, but most
everyone can learn. It is most definitely worth learning! Otherwise,
you could be facing an out-of-the-blue expense that'll wipe out your
whole cruising fund! There's a whole bunch of info on the web and many
books available. Add to that the fact that most boaters are willing,
if not eager, to share experiences.
Fuel. If your's is a power boat, find out how much it's going to take.
If sail, how much will you use the engine? We know one live-aboard
cruiser with a nice sailboat, but he's never even seen the sails! He
told us his fuel bill runs about $45 a month. We tend to mostly
"forget" we have an engine and use it only when absolutely necessary.
There are things that need fairly regular replacement. Check your
owner's manuals :-) Seriously, make a list of such items along with
frequency and cost. These should mostly be fuel, oil and water
filters, but find out. Don't forget toilet paper and the like! There's
really no way to budget for unexpected failures, but it would be wise
to have some bucks available for them. That is, set some amount that
you feel comfortable with as a minimum and pretend your liquid assets
have reached zero when you have that much left. Otherwise, you may
find yourself stranded with a "broken boat" and no way to generate
revenue. IOW, getting a job.

Marinas, moorings and such. Now we get into the Great Unknown! I more
than suspect those folks that "get by" on only $2,000 a month or more
spend quite a lot of time at marinas and/or must spend a lot of nights
at them while underway. You can almost always anchor out, but there
are some places where paying that precious money is the only way. In
the past, we've run into places where you have to hand over $25 or
more just to tie up and buy food from them, and out-of-the way places
where we've rented a slip for $50 a month and even less. We've stayed
at fishing ports where you just pick a spot and tie up, either to the
dock or another boat. Of course, you may wake up one morning and find
there's a 50-foot shrimpboat tied up to you and a 40-foot one tied up
to it! Or be awakened at 3 AM and asked to pull out so the boat you're
tied to can get underway. Everything does have some price, either in
money or convenience or sweat :-) There's just so many varibles and it
depends a lot on where you are. Free or cheap _can_ be found almost
all the time if you're willing to spend the time looking and talking
to other cruisers and locals, and probably put up with some added work
and/or inconvenience.
Entry fees and such. Do some searching on the web. Most countries have
a site that lists the requirements and fees. Again, talk to others
along the way. Once you've committed, this is the best way to get (and
give) information. Oh, and don't forget fuel in many countries is a
lot more expensive than in the US!

I think the bottom line question is a two-parter:
1 - How much are you willing to give up in trade for what you're
going to get out of it?
2 - How flexible are you?
Question 1 applies to life in general. We're making those choices
every day.
Question 2 to me is the real biggie. This kind of life is a constant
change. There are so many differences and possibilies from one port to
the next. Are you on the one extreme that just loves change? If so,
you're gonna' have a blast! The other extrene that just hates change?
You're going to hate it. Hmmm... you may want to rethink. Somewhere in
the middle like most of us? Well, you're probably going to have a
blast sometimes and going to have those times you just hate. Well
duhhhh... Come to think of it, you're probably having a blast and/or
hating your life right now!
Along the same line is "culture shock" if you're looking at voyaging
to other countries. Come to think of it, that can apply in the US --
us Sout' Loo-si-anna 'Cajuns really get a kick out of some "yankee"
reactions! Seriously, this is really a concern. Can you accept and
adapt? That old cliche', "When in Rome...", really applies here. I
have seen some folks really "freak out" and some that wound up in a
foreign jail. Remember that now you are the foreigner!

Well, I've written quite a bit here and I hope it generates some
thought. It's a big change to tackle, but it's just living life. Like
any "life", there are things you need to learn; things you need to
have; things you need to give up; good times and bad. It's not a
magical life, all filled with calm waters and beautiful beaches and
coconuts falling out of the trees onto your plate, but neither is it
constant storms and fighting the sea and spending fortunes on dockage.
Bear in mind it is a life that relies a lot on independence and self
reliance. Most of the time the buck stops with you. It requires taking
care of things RIGHT NOW a lot of the time. I forget who, but I recall
some football player said this. "It's like fighting with a 600-lb
gorilla. You don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla
gets tired."
Try it, you'll like it! Or not. If not you can hopefully sell your
dreamboat, get all or most your money back and go back to your old
life. Give it enough of a chance though. Our "mantra" when we first
moved aboard was, "We'll get used to it!" Like any change, there is
a lot to "get used to" and only you can decide if you want to.


Rick

Cruising in Poverty
 

Location29 wrote:
I've only got $20,000 for a boat and a paltry $1500.
a month in income is there any hope for me to cruise fulltime
or should I just go buy a condo with a water view?

A condo would be a lot less work. But you have much less flexibility in
choosing your neighbors.

DSK

Cruising in Poverty
 

On Mon, 03 May 2004 05:56:49 -0500, Rick Morel wrote:

Lot's of info snipped

Nice story! What I do miss however is the part about laundry...how do
you wash your clothes?


Cheers!


Remco

Cruising in Poverty
 

Hey, let me know where you can buy a waterfront condo for $20,000!!!

Seriously, you can cruise on that. You'll just have to anchor out all the
time, eat very simply (catch lots of fish) and not eat out in restaurants,
and stay the hell away from marinas. You'll have to figure out what you're
going to do about insurance, maybe none. That ends up being one of the
biggest costs besides maintenance for cruising boats.

--


Keith
__
Why do they put pictures of criminals up in the Post Office? What
are we supposed to do, write to them? Why don't they just put their
pictures on the postage stamps so the mailmen can look for them while they
deliver the mail?
"Location29" wrote in message
...
I've only got $20,000 for a boat and a paltry $1500.
a month in income is there any hope for me to cruise fulltime
or should I just go buy a condo with a water view?

Cruising in Poverty
 

What clothes?

Carry two pair of swim trunks and drag one behind the boat in a mesh bag for
awhile. Salt water cleans them very well! Now, if you're doing the loop,
that's a different story.

--


Keith
__
"The quickest way to double your money is to fold it
over and put it back in your pocket." - Will Rogers
"Remco Moedt" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 03 May 2004 05:56:49 -0500, Rick Morel wrote:

Lot's of info snipped

Nice story! What I do miss however is the part about laundry...how do
you wash your clothes?


Cheers!


Remco

Cruising in Poverty
 

On 03 May 2004 05:17:00 GMT, (Location29) wrote:

I've only got $20,000 for a boat and a paltry $1500.
a month in income is there any hope for me to cruise fulltime
or should I just go buy a condo with a water view?

From my experience, a single male can cruise comfortably on a 20K boat
with $1,500 a month living expense. Add a female to the mix and your
entry level boat goes to about 125K and monthly expenses begin at
about $6,000.

bb

Cruising in Poverty
 

(Location29) wrote in message ...
I've only got $20,000 for a boat and a paltry $1500.
a month in income is there any hope for me to cruise fulltime
or should I just go buy a condo with a water view?

Hi...
Been there..Done that..(almost)
Bought My MAC X-boat last year AND living on half that.
Go2 my page and see AND keep in touch...

http://www.angelfire.com/biz/WritersWeb/update3.html

Cruising in Poverty
 

On Mon, 3 May 2004 07:35:11 -0500, "Keith"
wrote:

What clothes?

Carry two pair of swim trunks and drag one behind the boat in a mesh bag for
awhile. Salt water cleans them very well! Now, if you're doing the loop,
that's a different story.


Well, since I live in the Netherlands, I don't think 2 pair of shorts
will cut it.... :-)


Cheers!


Remco

Cruising in Poverty
 

Location29 wrote:
I've only got $20,000 for a boat and a paltry $1500.
a month in income is there any hope for me to cruise fulltime
or should I just go buy a condo with a water view?

If you can find a condo with a water view for $20K, why in the world would
you want to live in a floating RV? Go for the condo, mate.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

Cruising in Poverty
 

Is that why she's an ''ex'' ?

SV

"Rick Morel" wrote

My ex and I cruised for 2-1/2 years aboard a Coronado 35 equipped with
solar and wind generators that supplied all the power we needed;
autopilot and electronic/GPS charting and watermaker. It was totally
self-contained. We mostly anchored out and had about a year of food
aboard. Some months our cost was $0.00, others a few hundred. A friend
spent about 6 years with his son and daughter, using the engine a lot
to move and to charge batteries. They almost always anchored out. He
said it averaged about $300 a month.

Cruising in Poverty
 

"Remco Moedt" wrote

Well, since I live in the Netherlands, I don't think 2 pair of shorts
will cut it.... :-)

So sail south.

Cruising in Poverty
 

Where the heck do you find enough storage for a years supply of food on
a Coronado 35? I'm having trouble finding space for two months on my 37'
Irwin.
Kelton
Isle Escape

Rick Morel wrote:
On 03 May 2004 05:17:00 GMT, (Location29) wrote:


I've only got $20,000 for a boat and a paltry $1500.
a month in income is there any hope for me to cruise fulltime
or should I just go buy a condo with a water view?


Depends. What is your lifestyle? Are you going to cruise from marina
to marina or anchor out? Boat. Sailboat? How big do you think you
need? Must you have a "late model" or is an much older one in good
condition okay?

My ex and I cruised for 2-1/2 years aboard a Coronado 35 equipped with
solar and wind generators that supplied all the power we needed;
autopilot and electronic/GPS charting and watermaker. It was totally
self-contained. We mostly anchored out and had about a year of food
aboard. Some months our cost was $0.00, others a few hundred. A friend
spent about 6 years with his son and daughter, using the engine a lot
to move and to charge batteries. They almost always anchored out. He
said it averaged about $300 a month.


I'm now looking at a 26-footer for just me. Lots less money to
purchase and maintain. I do plan on adding solar, watermaker and
tillerpilot. To me these are necessities since my thing is to get away
from it all and spend extended time anchored off those "deserted
islands".


The below is from my now offline web page:


June 5, 2002. The below was written before we set sail. It was a
combination
of memories from 29 years ago, cruising aboard a 22-footer and common
sense.
After more than a year and a half, and 3,000 NM under the keel, I
still stand by
it with only one exception. Cellphone Internet is now reliable and
relativly inexpensive.

I wrote the following in response to some questions on the
rec.boats.cruising newsgroup.
Someone wrote:
My dream is to take a multi-year sabbatical from my job, SOLO
cruising
Central and South America in my SAILBOAT. If I went on the
cheap (i.e.
mooring vs. tying up, avoiding marina/tourist bars/restaurants,
provisioning
from less touristy areas, and whatever else I could do to shave
costs) -
what would it take to finance the voyage?
Then someone calling themselves "Money" wrote:
I don't know why this is always such a difficult question - how do
you
live at home? High on the hog - or in a frugal even cheap style? Do
you run with the spendthrift crowd plastic charged to the limit - or
drive a 6 year old car?

So, I put on my thinking cap and wrote:
I think it is always such a difficult question because the "asker" is
thinking about boat/cruising related expenses, including touristy
areas vs. more out-of-the-way places. Perhaps "wondering about" would
be a better term. As obvious as it sounds, when you don't know, you
don't know!
But Mr. Money does have a point. How _do_ you live at home? Are you
willing to change if necessary? Everyone has different needs, or at
least perceived needs. Years ago a friend's dad, recently retired,
told me he only got $xxxx a month now and had to find a job because he
and his wife simply could not survive on that. At the time, his $xxxx
was almost TWICE our income! We were comfortable and would have been
living high on the hog with his. It is true, it's very easy to get
used to an increase in income, but very, very difficult to get used to
a decrease.

Disclaimer: What follows are my thoughts and opinions, based on living
aboard years ago and our current situation, which is getting our boat
ready for a change back to the live-aboard cruising life. We've asked
ourselves these questions and hopefully found the answers we can live
with. Lastly, free advice is sometimes worth what you pay for it.

I think the first step is for someone contemplating this is to really
look at your lifestyle and current expenses. Decide what you must have
and what you can do without.
All this should be obvious, but....
In today's high tech, power hungry world, if your must-haves include
things that use electricity, seriously look at how you're going to
provide that power. If by plugging in or generator, it's going to cost
big bucks. If by solar, wind generator and inverter, you'll have a
one-time investment plus battery replacements. But, and a big BUT, you
can't just draw power from the system without thought of how much you
have available. Don't forget you have to run certain things as well,
lights, including nav/anchor lights, bilge pump, watermaker, GPS,
fathometer, etc. It's almost imposible these days to go the oil lamp
no power route!
Communications. Do you really need a cell-phone? Internet access? If
so, add a lot of dollar signs! If you make money that way, it's
justifiable. You may not need all the time access, just when working.
If you do "need" all the time, anywhere, do some digging and checking
to find the best service for you. It will be EXPEN$IVE. If you just
need email to keep in touch with family and friends, there is a
service using Marine SSB for about $200 a year; or get an Amateur
radio license if you don't have one and use ham email. It's free, but
no commercial stuff allowed. Both are good safety devices and there
are ham marine nets where you can get messages passed along or even
"phone patch" (talk on the telephone) to a family member or friend.
That out of the way. Food. Ya' gotta' eat, no matter where you are.
How much do you spend now for food? If you eat out or get take-away a
lot, maybe now is the time to change that to see if you can live that
way and to get a more accurate picture of cost. If not, then add in
that humongrously greater food cost! Are you happy eating out of cans
with the occasional "bouts" of fresh? Are you creative putting
together a meal from said cans? Do you like cheap things that don't
require refrigeration -- rice, pasta, flour for making bread, etc.? Do
you like seafood and are you good at catching it (don't count on it,
but accept the free addition when available)? Do you just have to have
prime rib and sirloin? Are you going to need refrigeration all the
time? Another power eater and/or pain-in-the-neck and expense getting
ice if so. Now you gotta' cook said food. The general consensus seems
to be the best way to go is propane. It's cheap, clean and available.
Our experiences confirmed that. We found those years ago that it's
very wise to have two propane bottles -- run one dry then switch and
get the other refilled. Most folks report a 20-lb. tank will last them
about three months. Maybe we don't cook as "fancy" because we found it
lasted us closer to five or even six months.
Entertainment. Strictly your call. If you now spend a bunch and don't
think you'll be able to afford it, then I'd suggest at least cutting
way back right now. Substitute things that are free or cheap. The old
walks in the park or along the beach/river type things; cheap
pasttimes such as what? Macrame, fancy rope work, reading, keeping a
journal, solitaire, researching old ship wrecks, building ships in
bottles. Okay, okay, I'm getting a bit way out here; but can you find
such things to do and do you like 'um? There are times when you're
pretty much stuck on board and times when you can go out exploring,
and times when you have to work; either on the boat on at a real job.
Just like at home.
Addictions. Do you smoke? Drink a lot? Take drugs? Okay, you don't
have to answer _me_! :-) But, if your answer is "yes" to any, can you
support the habit? If not, NOW is the time to quit!
Health. Do you have a health problem that requires medication? Any
special requirements?
Well, that should about do it for questions about lifestyle that you,
and only you, can answer.


Da' boat related stuff:
Are you handy with tools and things mechanical? Can you do all or most
of the work on your boat? Actually there are very few folks that can't
when you come right down to it. You may not know how now, but most
everyone can learn. It is most definitely worth learning! Otherwise,
you could be facing an out-of-the-blue expense that'll wipe out your
whole cruising fund! There's a whole bunch of info on the web and many
books available. Add to that the fact that most boaters are willing,
if not eager, to share experiences.
Fuel. If your's is a power boat, find out how much it's going to take.
If sail, how much will you use the engine? We know one live-aboard
cruiser with a nice sailboat, but he's never even seen the sails! He
told us his fuel bill runs about $45 a month. We tend to mostly
"forget" we have an engine and use it only when absolutely necessary.
There are things that need fairly regular replacement. Check your
owner's manuals :-) Seriously, make a list of such items along with
frequency and cost. These should mostly be fuel, oil and water
filters, but find out. Don't forget toilet paper and the like! There's
really no way to budget for unexpected failures, but it would be wise
to have some bucks available for them. That is, set some amount that
you feel comfortable with as a minimum and pretend your liquid assets
have reached zero when you have that much left. Otherwise, you may
find yourself stranded with a "broken boat" and no way to generate
revenue. IOW, getting a job.

Marinas, moorings and such. Now we get into the Great Unknown! I more
than suspect those folks that "get by" on only $2,000 a month or more
spend quite a lot of time at marinas and/or must spend a lot of nights
at them while underway. You can almost always anchor out, but there
are some places where paying that precious money is the only way. In
the past, we've run into places where you have to hand over $25 or
more just to tie up and buy food from them, and out-of-the way places
where we've rented a slip for $50 a month and even less. We've stayed
at fishing ports where you just pick a spot and tie up, either to the
dock or another boat. Of course, you may wake up one morning and find
there's a 50-foot shrimpboat tied up to you and a 40-foot one tied up
to it! Or be awakened at 3 AM and asked to pull out so the boat you're
tied to can get underway. Everything does have some price, either in
money or convenience or sweat :-) There's just so many varibles and it
depends a lot on where you are. Free or cheap _can_ be found almost
all the time if you're willing to spend the time looking and talking
to other cruisers and locals, and probably put up with some added work
and/or inconvenience.
Entry fees and such. Do some searching on the web. Most countries have
a site that lists the requirements and fees. Again, talk to others
along the way. Once you've committed, this is the best way to get (and
give) information. Oh, and don't forget fuel in many countries is a
lot more expensive than in the US!

I think the bottom line question is a two-parter:
1 - How much are you willing to give up in trade for what you're
going to get out of it?
2 - How flexible are you?
Question 1 applies to life in general. We're making those choices
every day.
Question 2 to me is the real biggie. This kind of life is a constant
change. There are so many differences and possibilies from one port to
the next. Are you on the one extreme that just loves change? If so,
you're gonna' have a blast! The other extrene that just hates change?
You're going to hate it. Hmmm... you may want to rethink. Somewhere in
the middle like most of us? Well, you're probably going to have a
blast sometimes and going to have those times you just hate. Well
duhhhh... Come to think of it, you're probably having a blast and/or
hating your life right now!
Along the same line is "culture shock" if you're looking at voyaging
to other countries. Come to think of it, that can apply in the US --
us Sout' Loo-si-anna 'Cajuns really get a kick out of some "yankee"
reactions! Seriously, this is really a concern. Can you accept and
adapt? That old cliche', "When in Rome...", really applies here. I
have seen some folks really "freak out" and some that wound up in a
foreign jail. Remember that now you are the foreigner!

Well, I've written quite a bit here and I hope it generates some
thought. It's a big change to tackle, but it's just living life. Like
any "life", there are things you need to learn; things you need to
have; things you need to give up; good times and bad. It's not a
magical life, all filled with calm waters and beautiful beaches and
coconuts falling out of the trees onto your plate, but neither is it
constant storms and fighting the sea and spending fortunes on dockage.
Bear in mind it is a life that relies a lot on independence and self
reliance. Most of the time the buck stops with you. It requires taking
care of things RIGHT NOW a lot of the time. I forget who, but I recall
some football player said this. "It's like fighting with a 600-lb
gorilla. You don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla
gets tired."
Try it, you'll like it! Or not. If not you can hopefully sell your
dreamboat, get all or most your money back and go back to your old
life. Give it enough of a chance though. Our "mantra" when we first
moved aboard was, "We'll get used to it!" Like any change, there is
a lot to "get used to" and only you can decide if you want to.


Rick

Cruising in Poverty
 

But you are not bitter bb ........ ;-)


"bb" wrote in message
...
On 03 May 2004 05:17:00 GMT, (Location29) wrote:

I've only got $20,000 for a boat and a paltry $1500.
a month in income is there any hope for me to cruise fulltime
or should I just go buy a condo with a water view?

From my experience, a single male can cruise comfortably on a 20K boat
with $1,500 a month living expense. Add a female to the mix and your
entry level boat goes to about 125K and monthly expenses begin at
about $6,000.

bb

Cruising in Poverty
 

"bb" wrote in message
...
From my experience, a single male can cruise comfortably on a 20K boat
with $1,500 a month living expense. Add a female to the mix and your
entry level boat goes to about 125K and monthly expenses begin at
about $6,000.

bb
"Pat Noonan" wrote in message
...
But you are not bitter bb ........ ;-)



No, just realistic :{))

Citing personal experience, if I were to do it alone (which I probably
wouldn't - who wants to do all that neat stuff without sharing it??), I
could have easily bought the first boat we bareboated - a Freedom 32 which
needed some work - at 20k this year. At that price, with a cash purchase,
I'd self-insure.

It would have been fine for me - alone - and I have no doubt that I could
have added a couple grand worth of renewable power, and ditched the engine,
which was a recently rebuilt (but not yet reinstalled - it broke when we had
it, and hadn't been installed after rebuild nearly two years later) 3GM30,
perhaps at a net no-change. I have no doubt whatsoever that left to my own
devices I could live on less than 100 a month, plus upkeep/maintenance.

However, in the end, we bought in that price range. Luckily for us, I don't
think it will take the monthly costs to make it, as we share the same
philosophy - but if she liked wine more, and the AC at the dock, we could
easily be in the second range, too.

As Rick said, you have to seriously monitor your current lifestyle to see
what you're willing to do without...

L8R

Skip and Lydia

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2


--
"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a
clear night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize
that you are quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to
you that in the general scheme of things you are merely an
insignificant speck on the surface of the ocean; and are not nearly
so important or as self-sufficient as you thought you were. Which is
an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one that may effect a
permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly appreciated
by your friends." - James S. Pitkin

Cruising in Poverty
 

Location29 wrote:
I've only got $20,000 for a boat and a paltry $1500.
a month in income is there any hope for me to cruise fulltime
or should I just go buy a condo with a water view?


Where?
New Brunswick?

Sail through the reversing falls, tie up at the public market wharf
under the Delta Sheraton, walk to everything downtown in 5 minutes.

Upriver to Evandale, Washdemoak, Grand lake, Gagetown, Fredericton.
There are many old public warves. Major boat services available.

Take a month.

Facilities are all available. You will find fishing, free frog
baits, island beachs, 1 or 2 cows, a museum or two, art,
barbershops, taverns, showers, 4 star restraunts and hamburger
stands, all nearby on inland waters, great for the kids. Brave the
North Atlantic and reversing falls, or charter / hire upriver.

Cruising guides available at the St. John, NB market are probably ok
for a tour, standard bouys are used. Try following the Marblehead -
Halifax race in August. They often detour through Grand Lake on the
way home, a great family week!

No, I don't work for the tourism department, but can offer contact
info. I just hope it doesn't get to be too poular! It's deserted,
now. It's a great way to get out of the southern heat on a friendly
river.

I may build a trebuchet, and sell rides:-)

Terry K

Cruising in Poverty
 

Depends. What is your lifestyle? Are you going to cruise from marina
to marina or anchor out? Boat. Sailboat? How big do you think you
need? Must you have a "late model" or is an much older one in good
condition okay? BRBR

Original poster here,
Thanks for the responses to my question, very
much appreciated. I probably should have said
that my lifestyle is a simple one and I'll be single handing about 80% of the
time. I realize marinas
are not going to be the norm and anchoring/mooring
will be my lot in life. With that in mind any recommendations on boat type??
Shallow draft would be an advantage I suppose. My plan is to
sail mostly the Florida area, any areas with cheaper
marinas? I know the keys are high priced.

Mark

Cruising in Poverty
 

Yea, isn't that the point? ;-)

--


Keith
__
No husband has ever been shot while doing the dishes.
"Vito" wrote in message
...
"Remco Moedt" wrote

Well, since I live in the Netherlands, I don't think 2 pair of shorts
will cut it.... :-)

So sail south.

Cruising in Poverty
 

On Mon, 03 May 2004 05:56:49 -0500, Rick Morel wrote:

Lot's of info snipped

On Mon, 03 May 2004 12:25:31 GMT, (Remco
Moedt) wrote:
Nice story! What I do miss however is the part about laundry...how do
you wash your clothes?

What clothes? Seriously, we had tried one of those Amish washers. It
worked but was really a lot of trouble to use and difficult to store.
Wound up using a 5-gal bucket and a small toilet plunger. It actually
uses less fresh water to wash and rinse than to use sal****er, then
rinse with fresh. Of course having a watermaker helped.

Rick

Cruising in Poverty
 

On Mon, 03 May 2004 15:20:48 GMT, "Scott Vernon"
wrote:

Is that why she's an ''ex'' ?

SV

No. Actually selling the house, business, all that and cruising was
her idea. More an insistance. She decided she prefered women was the
reason.

Rick

Cruising in Poverty
 

On Mon, 03 May 2004 12:50:27 -0400, Kelton
wrote:

Where the heck do you find enough storage for a years supply of food on
a Coronado 35? I'm having trouble finding space for two months on my 37'
Irwin.
Kelton
Isle Escape

As it said in the ads back then, the C 35 has the room of a 45-footer.
It really does. Lots more than an Irwin 37 (I'm familiar with them).
Cans and cans of stuff, many gallon plastic containers of rice, dried
beans, flour, corn meal, sugar, powdered milk etc. Keep a reasonable
amount in the cabinets and pantry, then "restock" from stowage every
now and then. Of course some things, such as real potatoes and onions
and refrigerated stuff require more often replacement. No big deal to
run out and switch to canned or dried for a while. Sometimes it was a
pretty long while rather than return to "civilization" :-)

Rick

Cruising in Poverty
 

On 03 May 2004 21:22:21 GMT, (Location29) wrote:
Original poster here,
Thanks for the responses to my question, very
much appreciated. I probably should have said
that my lifestyle is a simple one and I'll be single handing about 80% of the
time. I realize marinas
are not going to be the norm and anchoring/mooring
will be my lot in life. With that in mind any recommendations on boat type??
Shallow draft would be an advantage I suppose. My plan is to
sail mostly the Florida area, any areas with cheaper
marinas? I know the keys are high priced.

Shallow draft is a lot easier to live with along the SW Florida coast
and the keys. A lot harder to live with offshore. Also generally poor
performance to windward. It's all a tradeoff. As a rule of thumb, a
5-1/2 ft. draft (what ours was) cuts out half the places you can go
with a 4-1/2; a 4-1/2 ft. draft cuts out half the places you can go
with 3-1/2.

Yes, the keys are high priced, but you _can_ find some reasonable
marinas there if you look. Mostly small fishing ones that have some
slips. Mostly anywhere, transient fees are way up there but paying for
a month is not too bad every now and then. Actually, with your income
you could afford to spend all the time you want at monthly costs.
Well, until you get down about halfway.

Be advised that plenty, if not most, of the "traditional" South FL
anchorages are no more. Seems the rich yankees want a clear view and
push the local governments to do away with them.

Rick

Cruising in Poverty
 

time. I realize marinas
are not going to be the norm and anchoring/mooring
will be my lot in life.

Mark, with only $1500 a month in disposable income, you can forget the
marinas. If you really need to tie up then look for back water fishing or
commercial facilities where they will let you live aboard. Most marinas now
charge extra or just don't allow you to liveaboard..

Another point... Most marinas will require that you have liability insurance
on you boat and to get this, many insurance agents push you into a full
coverage package.
A $20,000 may be hard to get insured (if a survey is required).

Once you find and purchase a boat, you biggest savings, after forgetting the
marina, will be boat repair and maintenance. Learn it and do it all
yourself.. The shops and services from shore, will charge you $60 to $100/hr
to do anything on your boat. And if you hire "casual help" off on the dock,
you will get what you pay for and often less..

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Cruising in Poverty
 

"Remco Moedt" wrote in message laundry...how do
you wash your clothes?

If your truly cruising, your clothing needs will be fairly simple. The best
laundry system I have found is a bucket on the fwd deck. The motion of the
boat will slush the water around as good as a washing machine.

I have played around with this some and found one of those after market
screw-on lids for a standard,round, 5 gal., plastic pail. This allowed us to
lay the bucket on it's side once filled with water, detergent and clothes.
The 'slushing' action was better if the pail lay so the bottom and top were
port/stbd and held in place with bungie cords.

We were able to do about half a normal machine load at a time in a 5 gal.
pail..

If your not underway, then the old plunger in the bucket works also..

My largest problem with any hand/boat laundry situation is the wringing out
the water. If too much water is left in the clothes they take for ever to
dry (especially in the tropics). Hand wringing is hard on the fabric and
ruins the shape of most knit wear. The next best thing is a hand crank
roller wringer. The old ones that you might find at garage sales will
usually have deteriorated rubber rollers.
The new ones a more novelty than functional. I have been using a commercial
mop wringer but that is hard to mount or store.

To conserve water (as we did in the old days on the farm), we would wash
the white first then the colored in the same water. This means that you have
to catch and retain the water as you wring it out between wash and rinse.
This means you need several buckets or tubs.

After all of this is tried, I suspect that most living aboard at anchor or
maraina, will opt for the nearest laundrimat..

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Cruising in Poverty
 

From your website: "I made and installed a Galley Organizer behind the
stove.
It holds the propane bottle, along with plates,
silver ware, salt/pepper, place for spices"

Oh man, you should rethink the propane placement and get it isolated
outside the living quarters.

(Fred Allen) wrote in message . com...
(Location29) wrote in message ...
I've only got $20,000 for a boat and a paltry $1500.
a month in income is there any hope for me to cruise fulltime
or should I just go buy a condo with a water view?

Hi...
Been there..Done that..(almost)
Bought My MAC X-boat last year AND living on half that.
Go2 my page and see AND keep in touch...

http://www.angelfire.com/biz/WritersWeb/update3.html

Cruising in Poverty
 

"Steve" wrote


we would wash
the white first then the colored in the same water.

This was before desegregation, right?

SV

Cruising in Poverty
 

It's only the LITTLE can about a quart
used for torches.
Interested in the trailer???



(Mark) wrote in message . com...
From your website: "I made and installed a Galley Organizer behind the
stove.
It holds the propane bottle, along with plates,
silver ware, salt/pepper, place for spices"

Oh man, you should rethink the propane placement and get it isolated
outside the living quarters.

(Fred Allen) wrote in message . com...
(Location29) wrote in message ...
I've only got $20,000 for a boat and a paltry $1500.
a month in income is there any hope for me to cruise fulltime
or should I just go buy a condo with a water view?

Hi...
Been there..Done that..(almost)
Bought My MAC X-boat last year AND living on half that.
Go2 my page and see AND keep in touch...

http://www.angelfire.com/biz/WritersWeb/update3.html

Cruising in Poverty
 

Location29 wrote:
Depends. What is your lifestyle? Are you going to cruise from marina
to marina or anchor out? Boat. Sailboat? How big do you think you
need? Must you have a "late model" or is an much older one in good
condition okay? BRBR

Original poster here,
Thanks for the responses to my question, very
much appreciated. I probably should have said
that my lifestyle is a simple one and I'll be single handing about 80% of the
time. I realize marinas
are not going to be the norm and anchoring/mooring
will be my lot in life. With that in mind any recommendations on boat type??
Shallow draft would be an advantage I suppose. My plan is to
sail mostly the Florida area, any areas with cheaper
marinas? I know the keys are high priced.

Mark


Do you want mere subsistance, or are you interested in making some
money?

I might want a cool Canadian summer labour force to work on my dock
on the St. John River for a few weeks, if you want to consider
something like that.

Remove nospam to reply.

Terry K

Cruising in Poverty
 

Where can you find a water view condo for $20K?
DSK wrote:

Location29 wrote:

I've only got $20,000 for a boat and a paltry $1500.
a month in income is there any hope for me to cruise fulltime or
should I just go buy a condo with a water view?


A condo would be a lot less work. But you have much less flexibility
in choosing your neighbors.

DSK

Cruising in Poverty
 

Several posters have recommended that you anchor out rather than use
marinas. I completely agree but worry about making that happen. The
cruising guides with which I am familiar tout the marinas (probably
because they are the ones who buy ads in the guides). The guides seem
to rarely tell about very many good anchorages and, importantly, where
you can land your dingy. Can anyone recommend guides for the East
Coast and the Bahamas that emphasis anchoring or at least give it fair
coverage?

Lee Huddleston
s/v Truelove
lying Sea Gate Marina
Beaufort, NC

Cruising in Poverty
 

"Lee Huddleston" wrote in message
.. .
The guides seem
to rarely tell about very many good anchorages and, importantly, where
you can land your dingy. Can anyone recommend guides for the East
Coast and the Bahamas that emphasis anchoring or at least give it fair
coverage?


Skipper Bob's Anchorages Along the Intracoastal Waterway has served us well.

Leanne
s/v Fundy

Cruising in Poverty
 

Skipper Bob has a book all about anchorages.

http://skipperbob.home.att.net/

However, the best "live on the hook" anchorages you'll have to find on your own.
I have friends who have survived, (thrived, actually) for most of the last 24
years living on roughly the specified amount - it can be done, but it requires
serious adjustment of one's lifestyle.




"Lee Huddleston" wrote in message
.. .
Several posters have recommended that you anchor out rather than use
marinas. I completely agree but worry about making that happen. The
cruising guides with which I am familiar tout the marinas (probably
because they are the ones who buy ads in the guides). The guides seem
to rarely tell about very many good anchorages and, importantly, where
you can land your dingy. Can anyone recommend guides for the East
Coast and the Bahamas that emphasis anchoring or at least give it fair
coverage?

Lee Huddleston
s/v Truelove
lying Sea Gate Marina
Beaufort, NC

Cruising in Poverty
 

"Jeff Morris" wrote:

Skipper Bob has a book all about anchorages.

http://skipperbob.home.att.net/

However, the best "live on the hook" anchorages you'll have to find on your own.
I have friends who have survived, (thrived, actually) for most of the last 24
years living on roughly the specified amount - it can be done, but it requires
serious adjustment of one's lifestyle.

Skipper Bob's anchorage book is good for the ICW and in addition has
the hailing frequency (which often changes when you go across a state
line), names (what to hail the bridge as is often not on the charts
and it's important to know which bridge you are talking to when there
are several in close proximity), and schedules of the bridges.

He also has a marina book which might be a good idea to have also
(it's inexpensive enough) as it gives the relative prices and
amenities in a table form so you can decide if you want to go into a
marina for a night or two to do the laundry or get water for instance.

For NC, SC, and GA, Claiborne Young's books (although much more
expensive) are really excellent for anchorages. I haven't seen his
Florida books (he has one for the east coast and the west coast and
has collaborated on a Keys book too). He covers the whole state and
not just the ICW. And (particularly important in Georgia with larger
tides) indicates what kind of swing room is available for various size
boats.

For the Chesapeake, I really like the Gunkholer's Guide, although the
Chesapeake Bay magazine's guide is also good.

Finding anchorages will be assisted if you have really good detailed
and up-to-date charts.

In the Bahamas, the Explorer charts have anchorages on them IIRC.
There are also guidebooks which list various anchorages. I don't
think Skipper Bob's book is as good for the Bahamas as his ones on the
ICW.

"Lee Huddleston" wrote in message
. ..
Several posters have recommended that you anchor out rather than use
marinas. I completely agree but worry about making that happen. The
cruising guides with which I am familiar tout the marinas (probably
because they are the ones who buy ads in the guides). The guides seem
to rarely tell about very many good anchorages and, importantly, where
you can land your dingy. Can anyone recommend guides for the East
Coast and the Bahamas that emphasis anchoring or at least give it fair
coverage?

Lee Huddleston
s/v Truelove
lying Sea Gate Marina
Beaufort, NC


grandma Rosalie

Cruising in Poverty
 

"Fred Allen" wrote in message
om...
It's only the LITTLE can about a quart
used for torches.
Interested in the trailer???

Those small cylinders hold enough propane to blow up you boat.. There for
you are dealing with the same risks..

I use them for my small SeaCook gimbled single burner stove, however I
remove the cylinder and store it in the cockpit locker when not in use.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Cruising in Poverty
 

Steve wrote:
"Fred Allen" wrote in message
om...

It's only the LITTLE can about a quart
used for torches.
Interested in the trailer???


Those small cylinders hold enough propane to blow up you boat.. There for
you are dealing with the same risks..

I use them for my small SeaCook gimbled single burner stove, however I
remove the cylinder and store it in the cockpit locker when not in use.

Steve

The major dangers of propane a

Asphyxiation - leaking propane displaces air to the point where
there remains insufficient oxygen to sustain life. This is
especially dangerous in areas used for sleeping. If ventilation is
poor, only a few liquid ounces of propane such as might be contained
in small lighter refilling cans or hair curler cartridges can fill a
small sailboat's cabin with enough evaporated gaseous propane.

Explosion - leaking propane accumulates in lower parts of the boat
until it is ignited by a spark from an electrical switch or other
source or pilot light.

Fire - leaking propane gas can accumulate in calm winds, and
"puddle" near the boat. Even with a slight wind, this puddle can be
ignited by sparks outside the boat, causing the entire cloud to burn
or explode. Small leaks inside can be ignited easily, and can cause
fire, which can burn hoses, releasing larger amounts of propane.

Fines - It is illegal to store propane canisters in any area used
for sleeping, or to refill certain containers.

Properly handled, propane is otherwise safe and convenient.

I keep all propane cans in the cockpit near the cockpit drains which
discharge at a point above the waterline. I check the drains are
free running often if there is propane stored in the cockpit.

Terry K

Cruising in Poverty
 

"Fred Allen" wrote in message
. com...
It's only the LITTLE can about a quart
used for torches.
Interested in the trailer???

On Thu, 6 May 2004 07:10:18 -0700, "Steve" wrote:

Those small cylinders hold enough propane to blow up you boat.. There for
you are dealing with the same risks..

I'll second that.

I use them for my small SeaCook gimbled single burner stove, however I
remove the cylinder and store it in the cockpit locker when not in use.

Steve, I wonder if that cockpit locker can "leak" into the hull? Is a
an on deck one? Not being a smart A or anything, and I know you have
your act together, but I have seen folks store them in a side cockpit
locker that goes right into the hull. Either directly in the hull or
so-called "sealed" with no vent to outside on the bottom. Propane is
heavier than air and will settle into the bilge. One spark and boats
have been split in two, and/or the deck goes flying.

When I used the little cans for stoves, I always put the can in the
galley sink. Kind of an open top propane locker with the drain :-)

Rick

Cruising in Poverty
 

I think y'all have covered the comment about Propane now.
It was written by the former owner in his ad for
the boat. (check the site again..)
(I keep the stuff in the 13ft Boston Whaler
that I tow/lifeboat/dinghy for an old man....)

Here's the 'scoop'...
The little bottles don't have the overpressure
relief valve as on the big ones. I've seen them
go thru fires on big and small boats, and not
explode, or even leak. (maybe luck for the owners or...)
I STILL don't trust it and mainly use the microwave...

....got aboard first boat in 1947/owned 15-20 boats
in various states of decomposition over the years
(one time owned 7 at once...stupid!!!)
worked in 4/5 yards/deliveries all over east coast/
retired now...Where were U in 1947???
(no offense intended)

I accomplished my purpose...
Interested in the trailer????


Rick Morel wrote in message . ..
"Fred Allen" wrote in message
. com...
It's only the LITTLE can about a quart
used for torches.
Interested in the trailer???

On Thu, 6 May 2004 07:10:18 -0700, "Steve" wrote:

Those small cylinders hold enough propane to blow up you boat.. There for
you are dealing with the same risks..

I'll second that.

I use them for my small SeaCook gimbled single burner stove, however I
remove the cylinder and store it in the cockpit locker when not in use.

Steve, I wonder if that cockpit locker can "leak" into the hull? Is a
an on deck one? Not being a smart A or anything, and I know you have
your act together, but I have seen folks store them in a side cockpit
locker that goes right into the hull. Either directly in the hull or
so-called "sealed" with no vent to outside on the bottom. Propane is
heavier than air and will settle into the bilge. One spark and boats
have been split in two, and/or the deck goes flying.

When I used the little cans for stoves, I always put the can in the
galley sink. Kind of an open top propane locker with the drain :-)

Rick

Cruising in Poverty
 

Skipper Bob's Anchorages Along the Intracoastal Waterway has served us well.

I found it to be so-so. It showed anchorages, including anchorages that
weren't there and anchorages you didn't want to go into that righ next to
anchorages that you did. A good set of current charts seemed to be more
useful.

Cruising in Poverty
 

however I
remove the cylinder and store it in the cockpit locker when not in use.

I find that sometimes -- not often, but sometimes -- those little cylinders
leak. I too store them in the cockpit.

Cruising in Poverty
 

Properly handled, propane is otherwise safe and convenient.

I like my Atomic-4 gasoline engine as backup incase my propane stove doesn't
explode first. :-)