My claim comes from 25 years of personal experience. I have lived and worked
all over Europe and I am telling you public health IS a failure everywhere.
Your opinion is based on what? Perhaps books, magazines, TV or was it some
idealist talking trash. Please note my previous comment about the American
biased media. You are being sucked in. Come over here and experiece the
failure yourself. Pay the 55% tax, experience the waiting lines or the
denial of treatment or a drug, because it isn't approved. Watch your
neighbor suffer for a year or more because there is no room in your
designated hospital or die because the appropriate treatment is too
expensive for a person of age. Public health is not the solution for
universal health. This lesson has been learned.
Steve

"Free Lunch" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 00:59:33 +0100, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote in alt.atheism:

June,
I do not dispute your observations, but they are too superficial and
incomplete. First there are no successful government supplied health
systems....anywhere.

You are flat out wrong not only do they work throughout the world but
they even work in the USA. Until the Bush Administration, intent on
proving that government cannot work by destroying the institutions that
did work, gutted the VA and military health systems, they were superior
to most other hospitals in the United States. I have no idea if your
claim came from ignorance or politically motivated dishonesty, though
the rest of your post implies that dishonesty was at work.

...

the VA and military health systems, they were superior
to most other hospitals in the United States.

You've apparently never been in a VA hospital.

You show amazing ignorance. Maybe you ought to research Obamas
education, his honors at Harvard (1st Afro American to be appointed
head of Harvard Law Review), his opting to not take all the big money
jobs offered and decided for a career in service. He even taught
constitutional law for a few years. 12 years in the Illinois
legislature and a couple years as a US senatory. The man has character
and intelligence. Things lacking in his opponent. Think on this:



What if things were switched around.....think about it. Would the
country's collective point of view be different?
Could racism be the culprit? Ponder the following:



What if Barack Obama finished fifth from the bottom of his graduating
class as did John McCain?

What if McCain had only married once, and Obama was a divorcee?

What if Obama was the candidate who left his first wife after a severe
disfiguring car accident, which McCain did.?

What if Obama had met his second wife in a bar and had a long affair
while
he was still married, which McCain did.?

What if Michelle Obama was the wife who not only became addicted to
pain
killers but also acquired them illegally through her charitable
organization, instead of Cindy McCain?


What if Obama had been a member of the Keating Five and been chastised
by his peers, as was McCain.?
(The Keating Five were five United States Senators accused of
corruption
in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as part of the larger
Savings
and Loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s.)

What if McCain was a charismatic, eloquent speaker?

What if Obama couldn't read from a teleprompter?

What if Obama was the one who had military experience that included
discipline problems and a record of crashing seven planes?

What if Obama was the one who was known to display publicly, on many
occasions, a serious anger management problem, including calling his
wife a c**t in front of a group of reporters?

What if Michelle Obama's family had made their millions from beer
distribution?

What if the Obamas had adopted a white child?


What if Obama was 72 years old with 4 bouts of cancer behind him,who
is periodically showing signs of confusion because of what some have
said is the onset of dementia, and irresponsibly picked the least
qualified VP choice and without even properly vetting her, as did
McCain.

You could easily add to this list. If these questions reflected
reality,
do you really believe the election numbers would be as close as they
are?

This is what racism does. It covers up, rationalizes and minimizes
positive qualities in one candidate and emphasizes negative qualities
in
another when there is a color difference.

Educational Background:

Barack Obama:
Columbia University - B.A. Political Science with a Specialization in
International Relations.
Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude

Joseph Biden:
University of Delaware - B.A. in History and B.A. in Political
Science.
Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)

vs.

John McCain:
United States Naval Academy - Class rank: 894 of 899

Sarah Palin:
Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester (left because she didn't like
the weather)
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism

Education isn't everything, but this is about the two highest offices
in
the land as well as our standing in the world. You make the call.


June

In article
, June
wrote:

You show amazing ignorance. Maybe you ought to research Obamas
education, his honors at Harvard (1st Afro American to be appointed
head of Harvard Law Review), his opting to not take all the big money
jobs offered and decided for a career in service. He even taught
constitutional law for a few years. 12 years in the Illinois
legislature and a couple years as a US senatory. The man has character
and intelligence. Things lacking in his opponent. Think on this:



What if things were switched around.....think about it. Would the
country's collective point of view be different?
Could racism be the culprit? Ponder the following:



What if Barack Obama finished fifth from the bottom of his graduating
class as did John McCain?

What if McCain had only married once, and Obama was a divorcee?

What if Obama was the candidate who left his first wife after a severe
disfiguring car accident, which McCain did.?

What if Obama had met his second wife in a bar and had a long affair
while
he was still married, which McCain did.?

What if Michelle Obama was the wife who not only became addicted to
pain
killers but also acquired them illegally through her charitable
organization, instead of Cindy McCain?


What if Obama had been a member of the Keating Five and been chastised
by his peers, as was McCain.?
(The Keating Five were five United States Senators accused of
corruption
in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as part of the larger
Savings
and Loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s.)

What if McCain was a charismatic, eloquent speaker?

What if Obama couldn't read from a teleprompter?

What if Obama was the one who had military experience that included
discipline problems and a record of crashing seven planes?

What if Obama was the one who was known to display publicly, on many
occasions, a serious anger management problem, including calling his
wife a c**t in front of a group of reporters?

What if Michelle Obama's family had made their millions from beer
distribution?

What if the Obamas had adopted a white child?


What if Obama was 72 years old with 4 bouts of cancer behind him,who
is periodically showing signs of confusion because of what some have
said is the onset of dementia, and irresponsibly picked the least
qualified VP choice and without even properly vetting her, as did
McCain.

You could easily add to this list. If these questions reflected
reality,
do you really believe the election numbers would be as close as they
are?

This is what racism does. It covers up, rationalizes and minimizes
positive qualities in one candidate and emphasizes negative qualities
in
another when there is a color difference.

Educational Background:

Barack Obama:
Columbia University - B.A. Political Science with a Specialization in
International Relations.
Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude

Joseph Biden:
University of Delaware - B.A. in History and B.A. in Political
Science.
Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)

vs.

John McCain:
United States Naval Academy - Class rank: 894 of 899

Sarah Palin:
Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester (left because she didn't like
the weather)
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism

Education isn't everything, but this is about the two highest offices
in
the land as well as our standing in the world. You make the call.


June


Spectacular post! Thanks.

-paghat the ratgirl
--
visit my temperate gardening website:
http://www.paghat.com
visit my film reviews website:
http://www.weirdwildrealm.com

"June" wrote in message
...
You show amazing ignorance. Maybe you ought to research Obamas
education, his honors at Harvard (1st Afro American to be appointed
head of Harvard Law Review), his opting to not take all the big money
jobs offered and decided for a career in service. He even taught
constitutional law for a few years. 12 years in the Illinois
legislature and a couple years as a US senatory. The man has character
and intelligence. Things lacking in his opponent. Think on this:

His intelligence and education do NOT make him qualified to be president.
Electing someone solely because they look good, sound good, smell good, and
is one of the intelluctual elite is a recipe for disastor. Hitler looked
good, sounded good, smelled good, and look what he did?

Zoot wrote:
"June" wrote in message
...
You show amazing ignorance. Maybe you ought to research Obamas
education, his honors at Harvard (1st Afro American to be appointed
head of Harvard Law Review), his opting to not take all the big money
jobs offered and decided for a career in service. He even taught
constitutional law for a few years. 12 years in the Illinois
legislature and a couple years as a US senatory. The man has character
and intelligence. Things lacking in his opponent. Think on this:

His intelligence and education do NOT make him qualified to be president.
Electing someone solely because they look good, sound good, smell good, and
is one of the intelluctual elite is a recipe for disastor. Hitler looked
good, sounded good, smelled good, and look what he did?



Bush was "educated." What does that say?

The fact that Obama has run an exceptionally successful campaign
compared to McCain's miserable failure says more than enough about which
man is qualified to be president.

..

--

We must change the way we live,
or the climate will do it for us.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oCYW4ScUnw

His intelligence and education do NOT make him qualified to be president.
Electing someone solely because they look good, sound good, smell good,
and is one of the intelluctual elite is a recipe for disastor. Hitler
looked good, sounded good, smelled good, and look what he did?

Bush was "educated." What does that say?

The fact that Obama has run an exceptionally successful campaign compared
to McCain's miserable failure says more than enough about which man is
qualified to be president.


It seems to support my claim that education alone is not a qualification to
be president. As for Obama and his successful campaign - you can't say his
campaign is successful until he is actually president. Otherwise it's not
sucessful. Likewise, McCain has not miserably failed until Obama is
president. Which just might happen...

On the subject of sucessfull campaigns - how does that make anyone qualified
to be president? I would think that convincing people to vote for you has
next to nothing to do with being qualified to be president.

Zoot wrote:
His intelligence and education do NOT make him qualified to be president.
Electing someone solely because they look good, sound good, smell good,
and is one of the intelluctual elite is a recipe for disastor. Hitler
looked good, sounded good, smelled good, and look what he did?
Bush was "educated." What does that say?

The fact that Obama has run an exceptionally successful campaign compared
to McCain's miserable failure says more than enough about which man is
qualified to be president.


It seems to support my claim that education alone is not a qualification to
be president. As for Obama and his successful campaign - you can't say his
campaign is successful until he is actually president. Otherwise it's not
sucessful. Likewise, McCain has not miserably failed until Obama is
president. Which just might happen...

McCain has less than a 3% chance of winning. EVs have Obama ahead
WITHOUT the toss up states. His win is a foregone conclusion at this time.

And McCain's campaign has been a disaster. He promised an honourable
campaign, we got fear and smears. He has run out of money and can't even
afford to put boots on the ground on Tuesday since he has put it all
into ads this weekend. His campaign office across the country are manned
by one or two people or are closed. He is only getting a few thousand at
rallies....

Obama is swimming in contributions (and didn't he refuse public money?).
His offices are turning away volunteers. His rally in St. Louis sported
100,000 people to McCain's 2000.

McCain has lost. The writing is on the wall....to those that WANT to see it.


On the subject of sucessfull campaigns - how does that make anyone qualified
to be president? I would think that convincing people to vote for you has
next to nothing to do with being qualified to be president.



Says plenty. Just because you're too blinded by ideology to understand
how running a HUGELY successful campaign makes one a leader doesn't mean
he isn't.

..

--

We must change the way we live,
or the climate will do it for us.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oCYW4ScUnw

I would think that convincing people to vote for you has next to nothing
to do with being qualified to be president.

Exactly. Sadly the hangover these Obama lovers are going to wake up with
would cause us all pain.

On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 14:50:29 -0700 in
, "Zoot" wrote:

"June" wrote in message
news:ea29fcf0-e4ad-4351-a34c-
...
You show amazing ignorance. Maybe you ought to research Obamas
education, his honors at Harvard (1st Afro American to be appointed
head of Harvard Law Review), his opting to not take all the big money
jobs offered and decided for a career in service. He even taught
constitutional law for a few years. 12 years in the Illinois
legislature and a couple years as a US senatory. The man has character
and intelligence. Things lacking in his opponent. Think on this:

His intelligence and education do NOT make him qualified to be
president.

So you want one without intelligence and education maybe?



--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
“It is often argued that religion is valuable because
it makes men good, but even if this were true it would
not be a proof that religion is true. That would be
an extension of pragmatism beyond endurance.
Santa Claus makes children good in precisely the same
way, and yet no one would argue seriously that the
fact proves his existence. The defense of religion is
full of such logical imbecilities.�

- H. L. Mencken