On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 14:56:40 +0000, Larry wrote:


Now, you're telling me this is all nonsense and we should keep plotting
with a pencil because that's the way we've always done it. I think that
is just stupid. If it saves one boat a year from crashing into that
container in the dark, it has paid for itself many times over....

No one is talking about plotting anything by pencil. My point is that
NOAA's free BSB charts are good enough and there is no need to change
the technology. ENC/Vector has its uses but we have that already as
well. I agree that photo overlay capability would be nice and it
will probably happen soon. It's already available on the web.

http://demo.geogarage.com/noaa/

There are licensing issues with the photo images that need to be
resolved among other things.

Have you seen Active Captain at:

http://www.activecaptain.com/

Jeff Siegel, W1ACA, has done a nice job with it.

On Oct 2, 7:56 am, Larry wrote:
Wayne.B wrote :

On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 02:38:09 +0000, Larry wrote:

A lot of us have a great deal of experience with paper charts and a
sextant, too, but that doesn't mean we're locked into using them when
something better comes along....right?

I haven't seen better yet - at least not for big boat navigation with
a dry space to work and ample power. I have no interest in
navigating on an iPod or anything similar.

I have a crazy idea we should leave the 1890's cartographer to the
dustbin and implement a Google Earth marine charting, satellite photo
and Notice to Mariners service that is in REALTIME, instead of operating
off a $130 archaic chart plug that was drawn in 1989, converted to an
electronic chart in 2003 and sold to you at amazing profits last Friday,
"The Latest Chart" at Waste Marine.

The technology to make that happen is plotting Skip's course off Cape
May this morning on his way to Miami. All that's needed is a simple
data network connection to the boat from the cloud of LEOS already in
place. It might even come in as data on an XM radio channel for, say,
$15/month with XM or $9.95/mo without. The technology to store it is
TIVO. The Charts for this hemisphere are map tiles used by Google Earth
software, enhanced for GPS navigation like Maemo Mapper and customized
for marine navigation. Instead of having old charts only on CDs on some
subscription that are months to years old, the live system would include
every scrap of data entered directly by whatever marine authority has
the password, from the local harbormaster to that country's coast guard
and military to the ITU and UN. A harbormaster in Wilmington finds a
dumped container on a low water spot, a hazard to navigation. He pops
up the system webpage, enters his username/password, which limits his
access to the system to just his area of influence, then clicks on the
location of the new obstruction on his harbor chart in front of him. A
popup window comes up so he can describe what that obstruction is and
how long it will be there before something is done about it. He knows
or can be the best one to estimate when that obstruction will be cleared
and enters it. The system tells him the obstruction will clear itself
at that time, should he forget, and for him to update the obstruction
when more information occurs. He clicks OK and the new obstruction is
entered into the data stream to every boat on the planet within a few
seconds, showing up on the chart of his harbor when it comes into your
view.

Now, you're telling me this is all nonsense and we should keep plotting
with a pencil because that's the way we've always done it. I think that
is just stupid. If it saves one boat a year from crashing into that
container in the dark, it has paid for itself many times over....

Let's all live like goddamned hermits in a cave, like that old *******
down the dock.


really larry i look at that reliable data stream that tells me where
the pig is and fully 1/3rd of the time it says he is someplace he
cannot possibly be. he has no way to make California in less than a
week and im pretty sure the pig is not driving across buffalo new
york. my bits of paper may be old but i know where i am and if push
come to shove i can usually Read the headland shapes and cross
correlate.

I really dont care how YOU navigate. I do care How I navigate and i
care that all this gadgetry is prone to errors that can put you in
places boats cannot go.(i sailed through the age of 15 meter offsets
that the military instituted on GPS)

This is not an argument against modern nav equipment it is an argument
against relying on it solely as your only source of data. Every course
i set is double and at times triple checked. all of my reciprocals are
run on paper and verified I even have a crew member check me on the
current tables and i check with the machines. if i get any error i
check again. i have caught the plotter the gps the tables my math and
the chart all lieing at times but most often its the electronics.