I got this back from my query about NOAA providing compatible map tile
products to xml mapping programs.....

================================================== ===

Inquiry: Is there any chance you'll put these raster charts on a server
as
map tiles like Google Earth, Virtual Earth, Runway Finder (aeronautical
charts, and a host of others use from live servers I can use with map
tile
software such as Maemo Mapper on my Linux internet tablets?
https://maemo.org/downloads/product/.../maemo-mapper/ This free
software, coupled with the WAAS-enabled Bluetooth GPS put my boat dead
in
the channel of any of these satellite photo servers, a very valuable
tool
in any waterway inland. To have the latest official NOAA charting, not
some vendor's 3-year-old proprietary chart plug, would be simply a
fantastic service to the marine community. The standardized map tiles
are
stored on SDHC large memory cards in the device, or downloaded fresh
from
the servers via Bluetooth tethering to my cellular phone.

Please investigate the possiblity of providing NOAA chartography on such
a
system, the new standard for the online charting industry.

Thank you.
Larry Butler
S/V "Lionheart"
Charleston, SC


Resolution/Response
Dear Larry,

We're looking at different options for serving up our data. We have a
Beta server at: http://www.charts.noaa.gov/RNCs/RNCs.shtml

We have a network of distributors who are starting to use thse charts in
unique ways. For example, there is a charting program called iNavX that
works on an Iphone. Basically charts are downloaded from the beta
server
on the fly. In the short term, we're going to be keeping with RNCs in
the
..bsb format--all 1000+ charts. There are at least a half dozen
electronic
charting applications that use NOAA RNCs--which can be downloaded for
free--completely updated. From our perspective, we make the data
available for free--and now via the Beta server---more easily accessible
for the private sector to build unique applications around. This iNavX
system is an example of what can be done.

I would say in the longer term--we are looking at providing RNCs in a
geotiff format--somewhat a more standard format that people might be
able
to work with.

All that being said--I'll make sure our technical people and managers
read
your comment.

Best Regards,



Thank you for your interest in NOAA's Nautical Chart Products.
We appreciate you taking the time to bring this matter to our attention.

================================================== ================

Everyone needs just a little push in the OPEN SOURCE direction, instead
of all this proprietary Maptech nonsense they've always had.

I replied trying to get them to contact Google Earth like USGS and NWS
have about putting layers of nautical charts on Google Earth, and Google
providing the coding and server expertise NOAA seems to lack (everything
downloads and there are no "live servers"). If NOAA and Google or
Virtual Earth can get together, live on-demand charting over a cellphone
tethered laptop...or....downloaded xml tiles for offshore, would be a
great leap forward in marine charting.....putting near-realtime chart
upgrades right at your fingertips for peanuts instead of $100/chart,
which is nonsense.

That department and the data it produces is PUBLIC DOMAIN, not Garmin's.

On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 01:57:49 +0000, Larry wrote:

Everyone needs just a little push in the OPEN SOURCE direction, instead
of all this proprietary Maptech nonsense they've always had.

A lot of us have a great deal of experience with BSB charts and
software, not to mention a big chart collection. It works well for me
and has for many years.

Wayne.B wrote in
:

On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 01:57:49 +0000, Larry wrote:

Everyone needs just a little push in the OPEN SOURCE direction, instead
of all this proprietary Maptech nonsense they've always had.

A lot of us have a great deal of experience with BSB charts and
software, not to mention a big chart collection. It works well for me
and has for many years.



A lot of us have a great deal of experience with paper charts and a
sextant, too, but that doesn't mean we're locked into using them when
something better comes along....right?

On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 02:38:09 +0000, Larry wrote:

A lot of us have a great deal of experience with paper charts and a
sextant, too, but that doesn't mean we're locked into using them when
something better comes along....right?

I haven't seen better yet - at least not for big boat navigation with
a dry space to work and ample power. I have no interest in
navigating on an iPod or anything similar.

On Oct 1, 7:51*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 02:38:09 +0000, Larry wrote:
A lot of us have a great deal of experience with paper charts and a
sextant, too, but that doesn't mean we're locked into using them when
something better comes along....right?

I haven't seen better yet - at least not for big boat navigation with
a dry space to work and ample power. * I have no interest in
navigating on an iPod or anything similar.

I trust my GPS and electronic charts about as far as i can throw an
oil tanker.

On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 20:11:55 -0700 (PDT), Two meter troll
wrote:

I haven't seen better yet - at least not for big boat navigation with
a dry space to work and ample power. * I have no interest in
navigating on an iPod or anything similar.

I trust my GPS and electronic charts about as far as i can throw an
oil tanker.

I would respectfully suggest that you may need better equipment.
Unless you are privy to a military quality inertial system, there is
nothing else better that I'm aware of.

Wayne.B wrote in
:

On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 02:38:09 +0000, Larry wrote:

A lot of us have a great deal of experience with paper charts and a
sextant, too, but that doesn't mean we're locked into using them when
something better comes along....right?

I haven't seen better yet - at least not for big boat navigation with
a dry space to work and ample power. I have no interest in
navigating on an iPod or anything similar.



I have a crazy idea we should leave the 1890's cartographer to the
dustbin and implement a Google Earth marine charting, satellite photo
and Notice to Mariners service that is in REALTIME, instead of operating
off a $130 archaic chart plug that was drawn in 1989, converted to an
electronic chart in 2003 and sold to you at amazing profits last Friday,
"The Latest Chart" at Waste Marine.

The technology to make that happen is plotting Skip's course off Cape
May this morning on his way to Miami. All that's needed is a simple
data network connection to the boat from the cloud of LEOS already in
place. It might even come in as data on an XM radio channel for, say,
$15/month with XM or $9.95/mo without. The technology to store it is
TIVO. The Charts for this hemisphere are map tiles used by Google Earth
software, enhanced for GPS navigation like Maemo Mapper and customized
for marine navigation. Instead of having old charts only on CDs on some
subscription that are months to years old, the live system would include
every scrap of data entered directly by whatever marine authority has
the password, from the local harbormaster to that country's coast guard
and military to the ITU and UN. A harbormaster in Wilmington finds a
dumped container on a low water spot, a hazard to navigation. He pops
up the system webpage, enters his username/password, which limits his
access to the system to just his area of influence, then clicks on the
location of the new obstruction on his harbor chart in front of him. A
popup window comes up so he can describe what that obstruction is and
how long it will be there before something is done about it. He knows
or can be the best one to estimate when that obstruction will be cleared
and enters it. The system tells him the obstruction will clear itself
at that time, should he forget, and for him to update the obstruction
when more information occurs. He clicks OK and the new obstruction is
entered into the data stream to every boat on the planet within a few
seconds, showing up on the chart of his harbor when it comes into your
view.

Now, you're telling me this is all nonsense and we should keep plotting
with a pencil because that's the way we've always done it. I think that
is just stupid. If it saves one boat a year from crashing into that
container in the dark, it has paid for itself many times over....

Let's all live like goddamned hermits in a cave, like that old *******
down the dock.

On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 14:56:40 +0000, Larry wrote:


Now, you're telling me this is all nonsense and we should keep plotting
with a pencil because that's the way we've always done it. I think that
is just stupid. If it saves one boat a year from crashing into that
container in the dark, it has paid for itself many times over....

No one is talking about plotting anything by pencil. My point is that
NOAA's free BSB charts are good enough and there is no need to change
the technology. ENC/Vector has its uses but we have that already as
well. I agree that photo overlay capability would be nice and it
will probably happen soon. It's already available on the web.

http://demo.geogarage.com/noaa/

There are licensing issues with the photo images that need to be
resolved among other things.

Have you seen Active Captain at:

http://www.activecaptain.com/

Jeff Siegel, W1ACA, has done a nice job with it.

On Oct 2, 7:56 am, Larry wrote:
Wayne.B wrote :

On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 02:38:09 +0000, Larry wrote:

A lot of us have a great deal of experience with paper charts and a
sextant, too, but that doesn't mean we're locked into using them when
something better comes along....right?

I haven't seen better yet - at least not for big boat navigation with
a dry space to work and ample power. I have no interest in
navigating on an iPod or anything similar.

I have a crazy idea we should leave the 1890's cartographer to the
dustbin and implement a Google Earth marine charting, satellite photo
and Notice to Mariners service that is in REALTIME, instead of operating
off a $130 archaic chart plug that was drawn in 1989, converted to an
electronic chart in 2003 and sold to you at amazing profits last Friday,
"The Latest Chart" at Waste Marine.

The technology to make that happen is plotting Skip's course off Cape
May this morning on his way to Miami. All that's needed is a simple
data network connection to the boat from the cloud of LEOS already in
place. It might even come in as data on an XM radio channel for, say,
$15/month with XM or $9.95/mo without. The technology to store it is
TIVO. The Charts for this hemisphere are map tiles used by Google Earth
software, enhanced for GPS navigation like Maemo Mapper and customized
for marine navigation. Instead of having old charts only on CDs on some
subscription that are months to years old, the live system would include
every scrap of data entered directly by whatever marine authority has
the password, from the local harbormaster to that country's coast guard
and military to the ITU and UN. A harbormaster in Wilmington finds a
dumped container on a low water spot, a hazard to navigation. He pops
up the system webpage, enters his username/password, which limits his
access to the system to just his area of influence, then clicks on the
location of the new obstruction on his harbor chart in front of him. A
popup window comes up so he can describe what that obstruction is and
how long it will be there before something is done about it. He knows
or can be the best one to estimate when that obstruction will be cleared
and enters it. The system tells him the obstruction will clear itself
at that time, should he forget, and for him to update the obstruction
when more information occurs. He clicks OK and the new obstruction is
entered into the data stream to every boat on the planet within a few
seconds, showing up on the chart of his harbor when it comes into your
view.

Now, you're telling me this is all nonsense and we should keep plotting
with a pencil because that's the way we've always done it. I think that
is just stupid. If it saves one boat a year from crashing into that
container in the dark, it has paid for itself many times over....

Let's all live like goddamned hermits in a cave, like that old *******
down the dock.


really larry i look at that reliable data stream that tells me where
the pig is and fully 1/3rd of the time it says he is someplace he
cannot possibly be. he has no way to make California in less than a
week and im pretty sure the pig is not driving across buffalo new
york. my bits of paper may be old but i know where i am and if push
come to shove i can usually Read the headland shapes and cross
correlate.

I really dont care how YOU navigate. I do care How I navigate and i
care that all this gadgetry is prone to errors that can put you in
places boats cannot go.(i sailed through the age of 15 meter offsets
that the military instituted on GPS)

This is not an argument against modern nav equipment it is an argument
against relying on it solely as your only source of data. Every course
i set is double and at times triple checked. all of my reciprocals are
run on paper and verified I even have a crew member check me on the
current tables and i check with the machines. if i get any error i
check again. i have caught the plotter the gps the tables my math and
the chart all lieing at times but most often its the electronics.

On 2008-10-01 21:57:49 -0400, Larry said:

I got this back from my query about NOAA providing compatible map tile
products to xml mapping programs.....

That response is KEWL!

Whether or not they formally support your premise, they're looking
ahead to and allowing that other formats may be acceptable.

AND he forwarded your feedback to the techno-weenies who will steal
good ideas shamelessly.

Again: KEWL!

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/