There are so many different products and recommendations for holding
tank chemicals. I would appreciate any first hand experience with
those that actually work to keep down odors and break down solids.

None Chuck. The secret to keeping odors down is to provide
an environment that doesn't produce odors. That is plenty of
oxygen so that aerobic critters thrive rather than anaerobic
critters. Aerobic critters don't make odors. We have a 1.5"
vent line to our holding tank. It allows circulation of air through
the tank. Another secret is to make sure that when you flush,
you run enough water through so that no nasties stay in the
line from the head to the tank. Check out Peggy Hall's
famous "toilet paper"

Doug
s/v Callista

"Chuck Baier" wrote in message
om...
There are so many different products and recommendations for holding
tank chemicals. I would appreciate any first hand experience with
those that actually work to keep down odors and break down solids.

None Chuck. The secret to keeping odors down is to provide
an environment that doesn't produce odors. That is plenty of
oxygen so that aerobic critters thrive rather than anaerobic
critters. Aerobic critters don't make odors. We have a 1.5"
vent line to our holding tank. It allows circulation of air through
the tank. Another secret is to make sure that when you flush,
you run enough water through so that no nasties stay in the
line from the head to the tank. Check out Peggy Hall's
famous "toilet paper"

Doug
s/v Callista

"Chuck Baier" wrote in message
om...
There are so many different products and recommendations for holding
tank chemicals. I would appreciate any first hand experience with
those that actually work to keep down odors and break down solids.

In article , sea_trek_
says...
There are so many different products and recommendations for holding
tank chemicals. I would appreciate any first hand experience with
those that actually work to keep down odors and break down solids.

Odorloss. Once a week treatment helps keep odors at a minimum. Good
ventilation helps lots but Odorloss doesn't require it.

jps

In article , sea_trek_
says...
There are so many different products and recommendations for holding
tank chemicals. I would appreciate any first hand experience with
those that actually work to keep down odors and break down solids.

Odorloss. Once a week treatment helps keep odors at a minimum. Good
ventilation helps lots but Odorloss doesn't require it.

jps

If you've got a stinky holding tank, it's a sign of a failing or badly designed
system.

Peggie will most assuredly check in with
some corrections, adjustments, or differences of opinion with the following
item. It appeared last month in a regional boating magazine, and may suggest a
braoder scope to solving your problem than
simply dumping perfume down the head.
******************
Item begins:

Pre-Season Sanitation Odor Checkup
(Eliminating that offal smell)


Boats that are away from the dock for more than very short intervals will
naturally require some system to collect and process the by-products of human
biological activity.
Regulations and common decency prohibit dumping untreated sewage in any inland
waterways (i.e. all of Puget Sound) or less than 3 miles offshore in the open
sea. Type I and Type II sanitation systems can reduce fecal coliform and
bacterial counts to incredibly low levels that meet or surpass legal standards,
but many marinas and public harbors are now even prohibiting the discharge of
virtually sterile, treated, waste. The Provincial Marine Parks in British
Columbia are all "zero-discharge" zones. Boaters wishing to abide by the law,
(as well as to avoid fines and spoiling the environment), will need to have a
holding tank in addition to any other waste treatment system on board.

A negative aspect often associated with marine sanitation systems is a sort of
sickly sweet and all too familiar odor that can creep out of the bilge or
holding tank compartment to permeate the boat. The worst examples smell like an
overused Sani-Kan on a hot summer day. Boaters spend millions of dollars a year
flushing expensive chemicals down our heads, and all too often the net result
is a smell that still resembles a Sani-Kan on a hot summer day, but just
downwind from a cologne factory.

Some of the chemicals in the head treatments we routinely flush are nastier
than the sewage they claim to de-odorize. Bronopol and Dowicil are bacterial
pesticides, and in sufficient quantities can inhibit the effectiveness of
shoreside sewage treatment plants. Formaldehyde is considered a probable
carcinogen. Glutaraldehyde is (literally) embalming fluid. One teaspoon of
Paraformaldehyde can kill a 150-pound adult, while it takes several ounces of
Para-dichlorobenzene to snuff out a human life.

The good news is our boats don't have to stink and we don't have to spend $100
a gallon for poisons and perfumes that fail to cure the problem. A properly
installed and maintained marine sanitation system will operate virtually odor
free.


Detecting sources of odors:

Odors can emanate from any portion of the marine sanitation system, and finding
the exact source, or sources, of a stinky problem can be frustrating. One
workable technique for isolating the source of a smell involves wiping any
suspected area with a clean, slightly damp rag. If odors are escaping from the
area, the rag won't pass the "sniff test" once removed.

The head:

The head itself, or the area immediately surrounding it, may be a source of
odor.
"Missed opportunities" in the middle of the night or during a rocky voyage can
hang around to haunt the nostrils. A thorough scrubbing around the head with an
antiseptic soap can be a good start in an odor control crusade. Many heads have
sections of pipe that are joined together with gaskets and screws. These joints
will hold forever in a marine supply store or a mail order catalog, but may
tend to work loose in a seaway.
Any moisture or staining around such joints is a definite sign of trouble, and
the gaskets may need to be renewed. A check around toilet joints with the
"sniff rag" may pay some surprising dividends.

How long has it been since the last head rebuild? Some of the manual marine
toilets are notorious for developing leaks past a rubber gasket at the point
where the pumping rod enters the cylinder. Any moisture escaping at this point
could be contributing to an odor problem. Of course, it's smart practice to
have a rebuild kit aboard at all times. "There are no plumbers at sea."

If the existing head has seen better days, it might be wise to at least
consider upgrading to one of the VacuFlush (tm) heads. The VacuFlush system
uses a very tiny amount of fresh water for each flush, rather than seawater.
Sal****er sanitation systems are more likely to develop odor problems than
systems using fresh water, as the sal****er itself naturally contains a large
amount of organisms that will breed, die, and odoriferously decompose in the
head, the sewage lines, and the holding tank.

The sewage hose:

It makes sense to evaluate both condition and system design when examining the
sewage hose. Sewage hose is not immortal, and needs to be replaced after
several years. Only hoses properly rated for sanitation systems should be used.
The interior of the hose should be smooth, not a continuous spiral valley
formed by a wire core. Some sewage hoses have a corrugated look on the
exterior, and that's OK. Use of hose with a corrugated interior will create
hundreds of little pockets to trap waste between the head and the holding tank,
where it will generate stench. Sewage hose costs more per foot than hose
suitable for vacuum cleaners and other applications, but most other types of
hose are not designed to be impenetrable by gasses.

Use of the "sniff rag" will help detect odors escaping from aging sanitation
hose.

Are there any "low spots" between the head and the holding tank? If so, sewage
is all but certain to accumulate there and break down the sewage hose
prematurely. Are there any splices or joints? Look there for potential trouble
spots and consider changing the hose to a single, continuous run.

Does the boat have a "Y" valve? Break out the sniff rag and examine the valve
for leakage. Many builders use the cheapest Y valves available, and the
inevitable result is that a valve may need replacement when only a few years
old.

Bob Dickey, of First Mate Marine in Anacortes, often installs new holding tank
systems without "Y" valves. "Why manifold waste?" asks Dickey. "There isn't any
place in Puget Sound where it is legal to pump untreated sewage directly
overboard, so by eliminating the Y valve we can get rid of a point where sewage
tends to become trapped."

On boats where a "Y" valve has been in use, the section of hose between the Y
valve and the though hull can be a likely source of odor. When the valve is
switched to divert the flow of sewage into the holding tank, rather than
overboard, the sewage in the idle section of hose will begin to putrefy.

The holding tank:

Polyethylene is a common material for holding tanks, and a fine choice. Even
so, there are some important differences between polyethylene tanks. The
thickness of the tank is important, with some of the better tanks being a full
3/8". Quarter inch and even 3/16" "budget" models are available, but may be a
poor choice after the supposed savings is realized. Holding tanks often are
subjected to the clumsy footfall of a distracted marine mechanic or clueless
guest. One crack, and it's time for a new tank. Some of the pump out vacuums at
marinas and fuel docks can work up a tremendous amount of suction, and the
light weight tanks (particularly those that are inadequately vented) can be
seen trying to "implode" with every vacuous gulp. Flexing and heaving like a
distressed lung doesn't do much to insure the integrity of the hoses, caps, and
vents fit to the tank, and every fitting is a potential escape route for
malodorous fumes. Cracked tanks should be replaced, rather than patched, and
any tank that is puckered inward when empty may be too light duty (or under
ventilated) for reliable odor control.

One of the most critical components of a marine sanitation system is the
holding tank vent. Billions of little microbes are busily digesting the
contents of a healthy holding tank, and some rather wretched smelling gases
inevitably result. If these gases are allowed to escape to the atmosphere
outside the boat, they will. Otherwise, they tend to escape into the on board
atmosphere and contribute to an odor problem.

The vent line should exit the top of the tank, should be of generous diameter,
and should lead overboard at a spot where the escaping fumes are unlikely to
reenter the vessel through a portlight or other opening. Some installers
recommend venting the holding tank through the transom if the run is not too
lengthy, but this may not be the ideal solution for all boaters. Those boaters
who spend leisure hours lounging in the cockpit when at anchor might not be
especially satisfied with a transom vent. An in-line charcoal filter can be fit
to a vent hose to eliminate some of the odors in cases where no suitable exit
point is available, (but to the degree that the filter will block some of the
air flow through the vent line there is a definite compromise in play).

Periodic inspection of the holding tank should include a check to see that the
vent line has not become plugged up. Such plugging often results from a tank
being overfilled to the point where sewage is pressed up into, (sometimes all
the way through) the vent line. In these situations, scraps of toilet tissue
often get hung up in the line and prevent proper function.

One of the more promising technologies for eliminating holding tank odors is a
tank "aerator", such as the "Sweet Tank" system sold in Seattle by Marine
Sanitation.
An aerator literally pumps air bubbles through the contents of the tank,
promoting the breakdown of waste. This continuous oxygenation prevents the
development of an anaerobic environment where the stinkiest bacteria hang out.
Pumping air into the holding tank also creates a tiny amount of pressure that
will insure a continuous and healthy flow of gases through the vent line. If a
boater feels compelled to add something to a holding tank, fresh air is surely
more environmentally benign and far more effective than embalming fluid or
deadly poisons.


Expert assistance:

For many of us, there are any number of activities we would enjoy ever so much
more than fiddling with decayed sanitation hose or a fuming holding tank. A
cursory check might fail to solve a particularly stubborn head odor problem.
Fortunately, we have some good marine sanitation specialists here in the
Pacific NW. Marine Sanitation on Northlake Way in Seattle and First Mate Marine
in Anacortes are examples of two firms with knowledgeable and personable
experts on hand.

If you've got a stinky holding tank, it's a sign of a failing or badly designed
system.

Peggie will most assuredly check in with
some corrections, adjustments, or differences of opinion with the following
item. It appeared last month in a regional boating magazine, and may suggest a
braoder scope to solving your problem than
simply dumping perfume down the head.
******************
Item begins:

Pre-Season Sanitation Odor Checkup
(Eliminating that offal smell)


Boats that are away from the dock for more than very short intervals will
naturally require some system to collect and process the by-products of human
biological activity.
Regulations and common decency prohibit dumping untreated sewage in any inland
waterways (i.e. all of Puget Sound) or less than 3 miles offshore in the open
sea. Type I and Type II sanitation systems can reduce fecal coliform and
bacterial counts to incredibly low levels that meet or surpass legal standards,
but many marinas and public harbors are now even prohibiting the discharge of
virtually sterile, treated, waste. The Provincial Marine Parks in British
Columbia are all "zero-discharge" zones. Boaters wishing to abide by the law,
(as well as to avoid fines and spoiling the environment), will need to have a
holding tank in addition to any other waste treatment system on board.

A negative aspect often associated with marine sanitation systems is a sort of
sickly sweet and all too familiar odor that can creep out of the bilge or
holding tank compartment to permeate the boat. The worst examples smell like an
overused Sani-Kan on a hot summer day. Boaters spend millions of dollars a year
flushing expensive chemicals down our heads, and all too often the net result
is a smell that still resembles a Sani-Kan on a hot summer day, but just
downwind from a cologne factory.

Some of the chemicals in the head treatments we routinely flush are nastier
than the sewage they claim to de-odorize. Bronopol and Dowicil are bacterial
pesticides, and in sufficient quantities can inhibit the effectiveness of
shoreside sewage treatment plants. Formaldehyde is considered a probable
carcinogen. Glutaraldehyde is (literally) embalming fluid. One teaspoon of
Paraformaldehyde can kill a 150-pound adult, while it takes several ounces of
Para-dichlorobenzene to snuff out a human life.

The good news is our boats don't have to stink and we don't have to spend $100
a gallon for poisons and perfumes that fail to cure the problem. A properly
installed and maintained marine sanitation system will operate virtually odor
free.


Detecting sources of odors:

Odors can emanate from any portion of the marine sanitation system, and finding
the exact source, or sources, of a stinky problem can be frustrating. One
workable technique for isolating the source of a smell involves wiping any
suspected area with a clean, slightly damp rag. If odors are escaping from the
area, the rag won't pass the "sniff test" once removed.

The head:

The head itself, or the area immediately surrounding it, may be a source of
odor.
"Missed opportunities" in the middle of the night or during a rocky voyage can
hang around to haunt the nostrils. A thorough scrubbing around the head with an
antiseptic soap can be a good start in an odor control crusade. Many heads have
sections of pipe that are joined together with gaskets and screws. These joints
will hold forever in a marine supply store or a mail order catalog, but may
tend to work loose in a seaway.
Any moisture or staining around such joints is a definite sign of trouble, and
the gaskets may need to be renewed. A check around toilet joints with the
"sniff rag" may pay some surprising dividends.

How long has it been since the last head rebuild? Some of the manual marine
toilets are notorious for developing leaks past a rubber gasket at the point
where the pumping rod enters the cylinder. Any moisture escaping at this point
could be contributing to an odor problem. Of course, it's smart practice to
have a rebuild kit aboard at all times. "There are no plumbers at sea."

If the existing head has seen better days, it might be wise to at least
consider upgrading to one of the VacuFlush (tm) heads. The VacuFlush system
uses a very tiny amount of fresh water for each flush, rather than seawater.
Sal****er sanitation systems are more likely to develop odor problems than
systems using fresh water, as the sal****er itself naturally contains a large
amount of organisms that will breed, die, and odoriferously decompose in the
head, the sewage lines, and the holding tank.

The sewage hose:

It makes sense to evaluate both condition and system design when examining the
sewage hose. Sewage hose is not immortal, and needs to be replaced after
several years. Only hoses properly rated for sanitation systems should be used.
The interior of the hose should be smooth, not a continuous spiral valley
formed by a wire core. Some sewage hoses have a corrugated look on the
exterior, and that's OK. Use of hose with a corrugated interior will create
hundreds of little pockets to trap waste between the head and the holding tank,
where it will generate stench. Sewage hose costs more per foot than hose
suitable for vacuum cleaners and other applications, but most other types of
hose are not designed to be impenetrable by gasses.

Use of the "sniff rag" will help detect odors escaping from aging sanitation
hose.

Are there any "low spots" between the head and the holding tank? If so, sewage
is all but certain to accumulate there and break down the sewage hose
prematurely. Are there any splices or joints? Look there for potential trouble
spots and consider changing the hose to a single, continuous run.

Does the boat have a "Y" valve? Break out the sniff rag and examine the valve
for leakage. Many builders use the cheapest Y valves available, and the
inevitable result is that a valve may need replacement when only a few years
old.

Bob Dickey, of First Mate Marine in Anacortes, often installs new holding tank
systems without "Y" valves. "Why manifold waste?" asks Dickey. "There isn't any
place in Puget Sound where it is legal to pump untreated sewage directly
overboard, so by eliminating the Y valve we can get rid of a point where sewage
tends to become trapped."

On boats where a "Y" valve has been in use, the section of hose between the Y
valve and the though hull can be a likely source of odor. When the valve is
switched to divert the flow of sewage into the holding tank, rather than
overboard, the sewage in the idle section of hose will begin to putrefy.

The holding tank:

Polyethylene is a common material for holding tanks, and a fine choice. Even
so, there are some important differences between polyethylene tanks. The
thickness of the tank is important, with some of the better tanks being a full
3/8". Quarter inch and even 3/16" "budget" models are available, but may be a
poor choice after the supposed savings is realized. Holding tanks often are
subjected to the clumsy footfall of a distracted marine mechanic or clueless
guest. One crack, and it's time for a new tank. Some of the pump out vacuums at
marinas and fuel docks can work up a tremendous amount of suction, and the
light weight tanks (particularly those that are inadequately vented) can be
seen trying to "implode" with every vacuous gulp. Flexing and heaving like a
distressed lung doesn't do much to insure the integrity of the hoses, caps, and
vents fit to the tank, and every fitting is a potential escape route for
malodorous fumes. Cracked tanks should be replaced, rather than patched, and
any tank that is puckered inward when empty may be too light duty (or under
ventilated) for reliable odor control.

One of the most critical components of a marine sanitation system is the
holding tank vent. Billions of little microbes are busily digesting the
contents of a healthy holding tank, and some rather wretched smelling gases
inevitably result. If these gases are allowed to escape to the atmosphere
outside the boat, they will. Otherwise, they tend to escape into the on board
atmosphere and contribute to an odor problem.

The vent line should exit the top of the tank, should be of generous diameter,
and should lead overboard at a spot where the escaping fumes are unlikely to
reenter the vessel through a portlight or other opening. Some installers
recommend venting the holding tank through the transom if the run is not too
lengthy, but this may not be the ideal solution for all boaters. Those boaters
who spend leisure hours lounging in the cockpit when at anchor might not be
especially satisfied with a transom vent. An in-line charcoal filter can be fit
to a vent hose to eliminate some of the odors in cases where no suitable exit
point is available, (but to the degree that the filter will block some of the
air flow through the vent line there is a definite compromise in play).

Periodic inspection of the holding tank should include a check to see that the
vent line has not become plugged up. Such plugging often results from a tank
being overfilled to the point where sewage is pressed up into, (sometimes all
the way through) the vent line. In these situations, scraps of toilet tissue
often get hung up in the line and prevent proper function.

One of the more promising technologies for eliminating holding tank odors is a
tank "aerator", such as the "Sweet Tank" system sold in Seattle by Marine
Sanitation.
An aerator literally pumps air bubbles through the contents of the tank,
promoting the breakdown of waste. This continuous oxygenation prevents the
development of an anaerobic environment where the stinkiest bacteria hang out.
Pumping air into the holding tank also creates a tiny amount of pressure that
will insure a continuous and healthy flow of gases through the vent line. If a
boater feels compelled to add something to a holding tank, fresh air is surely
more environmentally benign and far more effective than embalming fluid or
deadly poisons.


Expert assistance:

For many of us, there are any number of activities we would enjoy ever so much
more than fiddling with decayed sanitation hose or a fuming holding tank. A
cursory check might fail to solve a particularly stubborn head odor problem.
Fortunately, we have some good marine sanitation specialists here in the
Pacific NW. Marine Sanitation on Northlake Way in Seattle and First Mate Marine
in Anacortes are examples of two firms with knowledgeable and personable
experts on hand.

Yea, I've got a 1" and it seems sufficient. If you have an aerobic system
(most don't) KO by Raritan is the best treatment. If you have an anaerobic
system with the tiny vents from the Mfg., Odorlos is the best, because it
makes it's own oxygenating compounds. It does get used up in the process
though, so you have to renew it if you don't pump out fairly often.

--


Keith
__
What would men be without women? Scarce, sir ... mighty scarce. -Mark Twain
"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
None Chuck. The secret to keeping odors down is to provide
an environment that doesn't produce odors. That is plenty of
oxygen so that aerobic critters thrive rather than anaerobic
critters. Aerobic critters don't make odors. We have a 1.5"
vent line to our holding tank. It allows circulation of air through
the tank. Another secret is to make sure that when you flush,
you run enough water through so that no nasties stay in the
line from the head to the tank. Check out Peggy Hall's
famous "toilet paper"

Doug
s/v Callista

"Chuck Baier" wrote in message
om...
There are so many different products and recommendations for holding
tank chemicals. I would appreciate any first hand experience with
those that actually work to keep down odors and break down solids.

Yea, I've got a 1" and it seems sufficient. If you have an aerobic system
(most don't) KO by Raritan is the best treatment. If you have an anaerobic
system with the tiny vents from the Mfg., Odorlos is the best, because it
makes it's own oxygenating compounds. It does get used up in the process
though, so you have to renew it if you don't pump out fairly often.

--


Keith
__
What would men be without women? Scarce, sir ... mighty scarce. -Mark Twain
"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
None Chuck. The secret to keeping odors down is to provide
an environment that doesn't produce odors. That is plenty of
oxygen so that aerobic critters thrive rather than anaerobic
critters. Aerobic critters don't make odors. We have a 1.5"
vent line to our holding tank. It allows circulation of air through
the tank. Another secret is to make sure that when you flush,
you run enough water through so that no nasties stay in the
line from the head to the tank. Check out Peggy Hall's
famous "toilet paper"

Doug
s/v Callista

"Chuck Baier" wrote in message
om...
There are so many different products and recommendations for holding
tank chemicals. I would appreciate any first hand experience with
those that actually work to keep down odors and break down solids.

There are so many different products and recommendations for holding
tank chemicals. I would appreciate any first hand experience with
those that actually work to keep down odors and break down solids.


I don't use any chemicals. I think that if you have the right kind of hoses you
won't have a problem. Some hoses will pass gass threw the connections or the
walls. We use only some white vinegar once in awhile to keep the pipes from
clogging up with salt. Our vent pipe is only half and inch so I don't think
that it gets that good of ventaltion. The tube gets water in it part of the
time. We lived aboard for six years so it has been used, but we don't have an
odor problem.

Dick