Skip Gundlach wrote:
148 is recommended for grey water and as a bilge hose but it will not
stand up to odor permiation in toilet applications. 144 is somewhat
better but not much. 101 is the standard black water hose and Sealand's
Odorsafe is the best.

I see from their website that they now have an improved version (in 2004)
(abbreviated hereafter as SLOS+). I presume that means I'll need to be
careful where I buy it, as old stock might be present.

It doesn't matter whether you get "old" OdorSafe, AVS96 (which is the
same thing as "old" OS, but without SL's private label brand on it), or
"new" SLOS+. Of course SL is gonna call their new hose "new and
improved"--doesn't every mfr any time they change ANY even the color of
something?--but that's no guarantee that it's any better than the
original...which, btw, was outstanding.

I don't know if the
newer stuff has a price premium, either - but it seems the concensus is that
SLOS would last the lifetime of the boat, so perhaps it's of no event?

All 3 versions have about the same price tag.

I'd be interested to know what it was you talked about, and why the
personality clash.

He's not my favorite person either...I suspect for the same reasons
Glenn doesn't like him.

As to the longer runs, I'm all for the S40PVC - but
wonder if I can use the normal elbows and 45s to accomplish the transitions
which would be present in my rerunning the lines.

For example, the current installation of the aft head is a curved section
from the down-facing outlet of the Raritan PHII joker housing, reaching,
eventually, the aft engine room bulkhead for a fairly long run to the vented
loop before going (back, from the loop) down to a Y.

Just how long ARE these runs? The tank should be within 6' of the toilet.

I could see installing...

Skip... don't over-engineer it...KISS! The simpler, more straightforward
the plumbing, the better. If the current tank location will allow that,
it appears from your description of the plumbing that there are so many
bends in it that hard pipe will only over-complicate things...use hose.
If ther's a better location for the tank that will simplify the
plumbing, move it, even if that means replacing the tank to get one that
will fit the space.

You're welcome to get with me via email and/or phone to work it out.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

Hi, Peggie, and group,

As to the longer runs, I'm all for the S40PVC - but
wonder if I can use the normal elbows and 45s to accomplish the
transitions
which would be present in my rerunning the lines.

For example, the current installation of the aft head is a curved
section
from the down-facing outlet of the Raritan PHII joker housing, reaching,
eventually, the aft engine room bulkhead for a fairly long run to the
vented
loop before going (back, from the loop) down to a Y.

Just how long ARE these runs? The tank should be within 6' of the toilet.

The forward head has a holding tank - new, never used and the only place
where there's new white (don't know the type) hose. I'll leave it in place,
but doubt seriously that it will ever get used. The aft head once had one,
I presume, because there's a pumpout on deck, but I've seen no evidence of
it. Both heads have LectraSans, both of which, likewise, I'd like never to
use.

That's because we'll be in places, nearly always, where direct overboard is
appropriate. Talk about KISS :{)) As to not using the LS - Not because
they don't work - as far as I know, they work fine, including that the aft
unit is new. I just don't like the electrical overhead on a system which
seems challenged, somehow, already, despite being nearly new 4xT105s.

As to the runs, the original example is a little over 6' - but that's only
because the pipe has a long upward run for the vented loop. Specifically,
if it were to be SLOS/equivalent, it would be about 66" to the vented loop.
However, if I could eliminate the dip in the lower portion (run it
horizontal from a wide-radius ELL) it would be a bit shorter because I'd be
doing whatever that mathematical item is which cuts a circle at a point
before the top/bottom, rather than taking the circumferential route.
Likewise, I'm not sure the riser loop has to be as high as it is, but for
the sake of a few riser inches (times 3, as the Y below has two legs which
would be shortened, as well), it's probably not worth lowering the vent.

In the case of the aft head, the runs are very easy - straight pipe (with
the two ells) would accomplish all of it easily. The forward head is
another story. That might be very difficult to achieve due to the layout
making a stick difficult, where something flexible would go more easily.
Relating to another thread, this boat has all Jabsco Ys - the older ones,
white, with a lever-style handle with an end which goes around the shaft,
rather than the current T style handle, black plastic, and widely separated
exits. The one in the forward head has the handle broken (the part around
the shaft) as it wouldn't turn, and I'm stronger than the plastic, which was
weaker than the resistance to turning. Any idea where I'd get a new handle?
These are the older style, I presume - and the good thing, as far as I'm
concerned, about them, is that they output in the same direction, and close
together, rather than in an equilateral Y - which would save me some 45s
were I to convert to some other Y valves. All but the aforementioned
forward head example, which has two, work just fine, so I presume there's no
reason to replace them.


I could see installing...

Skip... don't over-engineer it...KISS! The simpler, more straightforward
the plumbing, the better. If the current tank location will allow that,
it appears from your description of the plumbing that there are so many
bends in it that hard pipe will only over-complicate things...use hose.

Not quite so. Just the one above, which would eliminate a low spot, as
well. That's the place the crystals became a solid (cured by a couple of
days worth of sailing with vinegar in the mix) in the first section of head
output.

Because there's a LSan in the engine room, though, the diversion to that
unit *also* uses up a fairly long run, both ways, off to the side (79 and 70
inches, respectively). The layout is head-loop, loop-Y(a)(b), (a)
lectrasan-in/out (b) direct to a T of overhead and LS-out, T-out. The only
loop/bend in the entirety is the first run, if you ignore the vented loop.
Seems like a very good application of hard pipe. The horizontal portion of
the head-Y part would be perhaps a foot or so - and, of course, if I leave
the LSan in, those are both in the 6 foot range (after the Y and before the
T)...

If ther's a better location for the tank that will simplify the
plumbing, move it, even if that means replacing the tank to get one that
will fit the space.

You're welcome to get with me via email and/or phone to work it out.

I'm not sure I want a tank, as per above. However, if I decide to leave the
LS's in place, it would probably be a good idea to relocate the aft one, as
the total pipe to *it* is well over 6'. OTOH, what are used LS worth? As
far as I can see, currently, they're taking up useful space, and to use them
is pretty expensive in my electrical budget. If they have a significant
value, I'd like to sell them.

Thanks for your offer - if I get desperate, I'll take you up on it. FWIW,
we read your book cover to cover on the delivery run...

L8R

Skip and Lydia

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2


--
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away
from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover." - Mark Twain

Hi, Peggie, and group,

As to the longer runs, I'm all for the S40PVC - but
wonder if I can use the normal elbows and 45s to accomplish the
transitions
which would be present in my rerunning the lines.

For example, the current installation of the aft head is a curved
section
from the down-facing outlet of the Raritan PHII joker housing, reaching,
eventually, the aft engine room bulkhead for a fairly long run to the
vented
loop before going (back, from the loop) down to a Y.

Just how long ARE these runs? The tank should be within 6' of the toilet.

The forward head has a holding tank - new, never used and the only place
where there's new white (don't know the type) hose. I'll leave it in place,
but doubt seriously that it will ever get used. The aft head once had one,
I presume, because there's a pumpout on deck, but I've seen no evidence of
it. Both heads have LectraSans, both of which, likewise, I'd like never to
use.

That's because we'll be in places, nearly always, where direct overboard is
appropriate. Talk about KISS :{)) As to not using the LS - Not because
they don't work - as far as I know, they work fine, including that the aft
unit is new. I just don't like the electrical overhead on a system which
seems challenged, somehow, already, despite being nearly new 4xT105s.

As to the runs, the original example is a little over 6' - but that's only
because the pipe has a long upward run for the vented loop. Specifically,
if it were to be SLOS/equivalent, it would be about 66" to the vented loop.
However, if I could eliminate the dip in the lower portion (run it
horizontal from a wide-radius ELL) it would be a bit shorter because I'd be
doing whatever that mathematical item is which cuts a circle at a point
before the top/bottom, rather than taking the circumferential route.
Likewise, I'm not sure the riser loop has to be as high as it is, but for
the sake of a few riser inches (times 3, as the Y below has two legs which
would be shortened, as well), it's probably not worth lowering the vent.

In the case of the aft head, the runs are very easy - straight pipe (with
the two ells) would accomplish all of it easily. The forward head is
another story. That might be very difficult to achieve due to the layout
making a stick difficult, where something flexible would go more easily.
Relating to another thread, this boat has all Jabsco Ys - the older ones,
white, with a lever-style handle with an end which goes around the shaft,
rather than the current T style handle, black plastic, and widely separated
exits. The one in the forward head has the handle broken (the part around
the shaft) as it wouldn't turn, and I'm stronger than the plastic, which was
weaker than the resistance to turning. Any idea where I'd get a new handle?
These are the older style, I presume - and the good thing, as far as I'm
concerned, about them, is that they output in the same direction, and close
together, rather than in an equilateral Y - which would save me some 45s
were I to convert to some other Y valves. All but the aforementioned
forward head example, which has two, work just fine, so I presume there's no
reason to replace them.


I could see installing...

Skip... don't over-engineer it...KISS! The simpler, more straightforward
the plumbing, the better. If the current tank location will allow that,
it appears from your description of the plumbing that there are so many
bends in it that hard pipe will only over-complicate things...use hose.

Not quite so. Just the one above, which would eliminate a low spot, as
well. That's the place the crystals became a solid (cured by a couple of
days worth of sailing with vinegar in the mix) in the first section of head
output.

Because there's a LSan in the engine room, though, the diversion to that
unit *also* uses up a fairly long run, both ways, off to the side (79 and 70
inches, respectively). The layout is head-loop, loop-Y(a)(b), (a)
lectrasan-in/out (b) direct to a T of overhead and LS-out, T-out. The only
loop/bend in the entirety is the first run, if you ignore the vented loop.
Seems like a very good application of hard pipe. The horizontal portion of
the head-Y part would be perhaps a foot or so - and, of course, if I leave
the LSan in, those are both in the 6 foot range (after the Y and before the
T)...

If ther's a better location for the tank that will simplify the
plumbing, move it, even if that means replacing the tank to get one that
will fit the space.

You're welcome to get with me via email and/or phone to work it out.

I'm not sure I want a tank, as per above. However, if I decide to leave the
LS's in place, it would probably be a good idea to relocate the aft one, as
the total pipe to *it* is well over 6'. OTOH, what are used LS worth? As
far as I can see, currently, they're taking up useful space, and to use them
is pretty expensive in my electrical budget. If they have a significant
value, I'd like to sell them.

Thanks for your offer - if I get desperate, I'll take you up on it. FWIW,
we read your book cover to cover on the delivery run...

L8R

Skip and Lydia

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2


--
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away
from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover." - Mark Twain