On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 08:03:10 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
news

On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 20:06:43 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:13:21 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
om...

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:49:24 -0400, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

I just KNEW my kid's Hot Wheels collection would be worth something
some
day. :-) Maybe I should pull all that pot metal kitch out of the
yard
sale.

Seriously, if the price of zinc rises to much there will be zinc
castings,
broken souvenir beer mugs and old kitchen utensils appearing out of
the
wood
work. There is an amazing amount of zinc sitting in peoples' closets
and
junk boxes.

Save your pennies. They're almost all zinc. The older, copper
pennies (before 1982, 95% copper, 5% zinc) are worth 2.2 cents now in
copper. A nickle is worth 5.1 cents in the metal value (75% copper,
25% nickle). But a current penny (97.5% zinc, 5% copper) is worth
only 1/2 a penny in metal value. That should go up if we really start
running out of zinc.

For a list of US coin's melt value vs. purchasing power see:

http://www.coinflation.com/

Steve


Yeah, unfortunately, it's big time illegal to melt down pennies. I think
there's some guy who's hording them in the hope that'll change (no pun
intended).

It may or may not be illegal but I can gaurantee you it'll happen if
it's worth it. No kid ever got locked up for putting pennies on
railroad tracks. And I'm really wondering how it's legal for all
those tourist places like Disney, etc., to operate press machines
where you put in 2 quarters and a penny and you get back your penny
stamped into a souvenir medalion. That's defacing a penny just like
if you melted it down.

The answer is that it's not illegal to melt or squash coins. If you
read the law, it says that the alteration, defacing, etc., of coins
has to be done fraudulently for it to be illegal. Melting it down is
not fraud.

Steve


Nope... it's illegal...

http://coins.about.com/b/2006/12/14/...nd-nickels.htm
http://money.cnn.com/2006/12/14/news...ney_topstories

P.S., I read your source about the new "Rule". Until that's a law,
it's not a law.

Steve


Here's the link on the Treasury site:

http://www.usmint.gov/pressroom/inde...release&ID=724

As I said before, I saw that press release. It's almost 2 years old.
The US Mint can make all the "rules" it wants. But until the rule
gets into the US code, it's unenforcable in US court. I've done a
search of the US code and have not found anything that says you can't
melt down pennies for the zinc content. You'd think it would be there
by now, being almost 2 years old. But as far as I can see, it's not.
I'm not going to bother searching all the individual State codes
because you'd think something like this would be in the US code if it
was anywhere since minting coins is a federal function.

If you can point me to such a law in the US code, I would greatly
appreciate it.

Steve

On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 07:54:56 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
.. .

On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 20:06:43 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:13:21 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
om...

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:49:24 -0400, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

I just KNEW my kid's Hot Wheels collection would be worth something
some
day. :-) Maybe I should pull all that pot metal kitch out of the
yard
sale.

Seriously, if the price of zinc rises to much there will be zinc
castings,
broken souvenir beer mugs and old kitchen utensils appearing out of
the
wood
work. There is an amazing amount of zinc sitting in peoples' closets
and
junk boxes.

Save your pennies. They're almost all zinc. The older, copper
pennies (before 1982, 95% copper, 5% zinc) are worth 2.2 cents now in
copper. A nickle is worth 5.1 cents in the metal value (75% copper,
25% nickle). But a current penny (97.5% zinc, 5% copper) is worth
only 1/2 a penny in metal value. That should go up if we really start
running out of zinc.

For a list of US coin's melt value vs. purchasing power see:

http://www.coinflation.com/

Steve


Yeah, unfortunately, it's big time illegal to melt down pennies. I think
there's some guy who's hording them in the hope that'll change (no pun
intended).

It may or may not be illegal but I can gaurantee you it'll happen if
it's worth it. No kid ever got locked up for putting pennies on
railroad tracks. And I'm really wondering how it's legal for all
those tourist places like Disney, etc., to operate press machines
where you put in 2 quarters and a penny and you get back your penny
stamped into a souvenir medalion. That's defacing a penny just like
if you melted it down.

The answer is that it's not illegal to melt or squash coins. If you
read the law, it says that the alteration, defacing, etc., of coins
has to be done fraudulently for it to be illegal. Melting it down is
not fraud.

Steve


Nope... it's illegal...

http://coins.about.com/b/2006/12/14/...nd-nickels.htm
http://money.cnn.com/2006/12/14/news...ney_topstories

Nope, legal. At least in the US. Your sources are misinformed.
Believe me, there's a lot of that on the intenet.

http://www.coinflation.com/is_it_ill...elt_coins.html
http://boards.collectors-society.com...te_id/1#import

And directly from the source, ths US Treasury and US Mint:
http://www.ustreas.gov/education/faq...aits.shtml#q13

Quoting from the US Treasury site:

Question: Is it illegal to damage or deface coins?

Answer: Section 331 of Title 18 of the United States code provides
criminal penalties for anyone who "fraudulently alters, defaces,
mutilates impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of
the coins coined at the Mints of the United States." This statute
means that you may be violating the law if you change the appearance
of the coin and fraudulently represent it to be other than the altered
coin that it is. As a matter of policy, the U.S. Mint does not promote
coloring, plating or altering U.S. coinage: however, there are no
sanctions against such activity absent fraudulent intent.

This means that you can melt down all the US coins you want as long as
you don't try and pass off the melted down coin as a different coin.

Steve


Steve, the rule was implemented. CNN got it right. It's specifically about
melting them down, which was added to the rules, but feel free to hoard
them.

Please point me to the law in the US code that says I can't melt down
pennies for the zinc. I seriously would appreciate it since I've
tried but can't find it.

Steve

On 22 Aug 2008 09:27:01 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:36:25 GMT, Steve said:

As I said before, I saw that press release. It's almost 2 years old.
The US Mint can make all the "rules" it wants. But until the rule
gets into the US code, it's unenforcable in US court.

Sorry, but that's simply wrong. There are circumstances where regulations
are invalid--typically where a court finds they exceed the authority granted
the agency by statute, but that's not the usual case. Just ask the execs of
any number of banks that have been penalized recently for violation
regulations under the Bank Secrecy Act.

Ah yes, you're right. So I started searching Title 31 (money and
finance: treasury) of the CFR as of 1 July 2007 (1 July 2008 isn't
available yet) and couldn't find anything relavent. Since the rule is
from 2006, it should be there. I'd love to find this rule somewhere
because that would make all those souvenir coin press machines
illegal.

Steve

"Steve" wrote in message
...

On 22 Aug 2008 09:27:01 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:36:25 GMT, Steve said:

As I said before, I saw that press release. It's almost 2 years old.
The US Mint can make all the "rules" it wants. But until the rule
gets into the US code, it's unenforcable in US court.

Sorry, but that's simply wrong. There are circumstances where regulations
are invalid--typically where a court finds they exceed the authority
granted
the agency by statute, but that's not the usual case. Just ask the execs
of
any number of banks that have been penalized recently for violation
regulations under the Bank Secrecy Act.

Ah yes, you're right. So I started searching Title 31 (money and
finance: treasury) of the CFR as of 1 July 2007 (1 July 2008 isn't
available yet) and couldn't find anything relavent. Since the rule is
from 2006, it should be there. I'd love to find this rule somewhere
because that would make all those souvenir coin press machines
illegal.

Steve


No it wouldn't. It's only illegal if you're intending to defraud by altering
the coin.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:23:53 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
.. .

On 22 Aug 2008 09:27:01 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:36:25 GMT, Steve said:

As I said before, I saw that press release. It's almost 2 years old.
The US Mint can make all the "rules" it wants. But until the rule
gets into the US code, it's unenforcable in US court.

Sorry, but that's simply wrong. There are circumstances where regulations
are invalid--typically where a court finds they exceed the authority
granted
the agency by statute, but that's not the usual case. Just ask the execs
of
any number of banks that have been penalized recently for violation
regulations under the Bank Secrecy Act.

Ah yes, you're right. So I started searching Title 31 (money and
finance: treasury) of the CFR as of 1 July 2007 (1 July 2008 isn't
available yet) and couldn't find anything relavent. Since the rule is
from 2006, it should be there. I'd love to find this rule somewhere
because that would make all those souvenir coin press machines
illegal.

Steve


No it wouldn't. It's only illegal if you're intending to defraud by altering
the coin.

Exactly! That's what I've been saying all along.

Steve2

"Steve" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:23:53 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
. ..

On 22 Aug 2008 09:27:01 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:36:25 GMT, Steve said:

As I said before, I saw that press release. It's almost 2 years old.
The US Mint can make all the "rules" it wants. But until the rule
gets into the US code, it's unenforcable in US court.

Sorry, but that's simply wrong. There are circumstances where
regulations
are invalid--typically where a court finds they exceed the authority
granted
the agency by statute, but that's not the usual case. Just ask the execs
of
any number of banks that have been penalized recently for violation
regulations under the Bank Secrecy Act.

Ah yes, you're right. So I started searching Title 31 (money and
finance: treasury) of the CFR as of 1 July 2007 (1 July 2008 isn't
available yet) and couldn't find anything relavent. Since the rule is
from 2006, it should be there. I'd love to find this rule somewhere
because that would make all those souvenir coin press machines
illegal.

Steve


No it wouldn't. It's only illegal if you're intending to defraud by
altering
the coin.

Exactly! That's what I've been saying all along.

Steve2

Two different issues.... they're covered by different rules, so it's not
what you've been saying all along.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:16:27 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
.. .

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:23:53 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
...

On 22 Aug 2008 09:27:01 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:36:25 GMT, Steve said:

As I said before, I saw that press release. It's almost 2 years old.
The US Mint can make all the "rules" it wants. But until the rule
gets into the US code, it's unenforcable in US court.

Sorry, but that's simply wrong. There are circumstances where
regulations
are invalid--typically where a court finds they exceed the authority
granted
the agency by statute, but that's not the usual case. Just ask the execs
of
any number of banks that have been penalized recently for violation
regulations under the Bank Secrecy Act.

Ah yes, you're right. So I started searching Title 31 (money and
finance: treasury) of the CFR as of 1 July 2007 (1 July 2008 isn't
available yet) and couldn't find anything relavent. Since the rule is
from 2006, it should be there. I'd love to find this rule somewhere
because that would make all those souvenir coin press machines
illegal.

Steve


No it wouldn't. It's only illegal if you're intending to defraud by
altering
the coin.

Exactly! That's what I've been saying all along.

Steve2

Two different issues.... they're covered by different rules, so it's not
what you've been saying all along.

Well then we're back to square 1. I'd like to see where it's illegal
to non-fraudulently deface, mutilate, etc., a penny in the CFR or the
USC.

Hell, if you're saying it's legal to squash a penny but illegal to
melt it, then all you have to do is squash them first. Tnen it's no
longer a penny so it's now legal to melt it.

Steve

"Steve" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:16:27 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
. ..

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:23:53 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
m...

On 22 Aug 2008 09:27:01 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:36:25 GMT, Steve said:

As I said before, I saw that press release. It's almost 2 years old.
The US Mint can make all the "rules" it wants. But until the rule
gets into the US code, it's unenforcable in US court.

Sorry, but that's simply wrong. There are circumstances where
regulations
are invalid--typically where a court finds they exceed the authority
granted
the agency by statute, but that's not the usual case. Just ask the
execs
of
any number of banks that have been penalized recently for violation
regulations under the Bank Secrecy Act.

Ah yes, you're right. So I started searching Title 31 (money and
finance: treasury) of the CFR as of 1 July 2007 (1 July 2008 isn't
available yet) and couldn't find anything relavent. Since the rule is
from 2006, it should be there. I'd love to find this rule somewhere
because that would make all those souvenir coin press machines
illegal.

Steve


No it wouldn't. It's only illegal if you're intending to defraud by
altering
the coin.

Exactly! That's what I've been saying all along.

Steve2

Two different issues.... they're covered by different rules, so it's not
what you've been saying all along.

Well then we're back to square 1. I'd like to see where it's illegal
to non-fraudulently deface, mutilate, etc., a penny in the CFR or the
USC.

Hell, if you're saying it's legal to squash a penny but illegal to
melt it, then all you have to do is squash them first. Tnen it's no
longer a penny so it's now legal to melt it.

Steve


Well, I think I'm done with this thread. I pointed you to the link regarding
melting and Dave pointed out how things are done. If you think you can
deface them first, then melt them down, and do it legally, go for it. This
discussion has become boring. Sorry.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Steve" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:16:27 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
. ..

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:23:53 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
m...

On 22 Aug 2008 09:27:01 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:36:25 GMT, Steve said:

As I said before, I saw that press release. It's almost 2 years old.
The US Mint can make all the "rules" it wants. But until the rule
gets into the US code, it's unenforcable in US court.

Sorry, but that's simply wrong. There are circumstances where
regulations
are invalid--typically where a court finds they exceed the authority
granted
the agency by statute, but that's not the usual case. Just ask the
execs
of
any number of banks that have been penalized recently for violation
regulations under the Bank Secrecy Act.

Ah yes, you're right. So I started searching Title 31 (money and
finance: treasury) of the CFR as of 1 July 2007 (1 July 2008 isn't
available yet) and couldn't find anything relavent. Since the rule is
from 2006, it should be there. I'd love to find this rule somewhere
because that would make all those souvenir coin press machines
illegal.

Steve


No it wouldn't. It's only illegal if you're intending to defraud by
altering
the coin.

Exactly! That's what I've been saying all along.

Steve2

Two different issues.... they're covered by different rules, so it's not
what you've been saying all along.

It's the drugs.


Well then we're back to square 1. I'd like to see where it's illegal
to non-fraudulently deface, mutilate, etc., a penny in the CFR or the
USC.

Hell, if you're saying it's legal to squash a penny but illegal to
melt it, then all you have to do is squash them first. Tnen it's no
longer a penny so it's now legal to melt it.


Pay no attention to the self confessed druggie. He's having flash-backs.