On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 02:37:21 +0000, Larry wrote:

" wrote in news:d58baedd-dd67-
:

On Jul 19, 5:22*pm, Brian Whatcott wrote:
..
Still, give a person credit for gun-shyness from a battery fast-
charge
accident! ...

Oh yes. An exploding battery while offshore is a nightmare! I
appreciate the concern. I think Larry is incorrect in his assertion,
but I'm listening because if he convinces me that he isn't then I'm
going to change my ways fast.

-- Tom



I heard a noise about taking the VOLTAGE REGULATOR off the alternator
and putting a manual current control on the field winding so it can be
"cranked up" to whatever charging current some idiot wants. Look back,
I forgot who said it. This is the absolute stupidest idea I've seen
about battery charging. I know why they are doing it. they've been
watching that ammeter that starts out charging like hell for the first
few minutes, then DROPPING LIKE A ROCK as the surface of the plates
becomes replated and the ions in the near-plate electrolyte are used up.
Right there at the surface of the plates, in the worst possible place,
there's a tiny slice of battery that has already charged. When more and
more current is shoved through it, by cranking up the charging (voltage
is the ONLY way to overcharge ANY lead-acid battery) that little slice
turns current directly into heat, gassifying the water at the barrier
into O2 and H2 and heating those plates!

That was me and I didn't put the manual control on to charge faster. I
put it on so if the regulator failed I could control the alternator. I
was commenting that modern regulators run the field at battery
voltage when the battery is low so my manual control couldn't put out
any more voltage then the regulator.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

On Jul 19, 8:14*pm, Larry wrote:
...
Arithmetic: *168W/13.8V=12.17 amps.
...

Yes, but you didn't need to do that, they've got that and more all
tabulated for you:

http://www.rparts.com/Catalog/Major_...compressor.pdf
(http://tinyurl.com/5mgbm6)

Keep in mind the BD80 is huge. I use a 35 each for my fridge and
freezer.

-- Tom.

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:33:47 -0400, jeff wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

Not to disparage anyone but have a look at the battery manufacturer's
specs and see whether they recommend that high a charging rate. I
suspect you'll see something like 10 - 15% of rated capacity.


That's what Trojan says for their wet cells, though I've done a lot of
charging at more like 18-20% will no ill affects. My first set did die
after 7 years (they might have gone another year or so if I had tended
to them better over a harsh winter), but frankly, they are the cheapest
part of the system.

For their gel and AGM batteries, they say 20%

From all I can read the rate of charge is determined more by what it
is doing to the electrolyte then anything else. If you read up on car
alternators you will read many references to "without excess water
loss". So, probably if your batteries aren't getting hot and aren't
gassing excessively the current is not excessive. I think I read
somewhere 120 degrees F was the hottest allowable.

But the point Larry keeps making, and every competent description I
have ever read about lead acid batteries emphasizes is that because
the process is a chemical process it takes some time to accomplish. No
matter how many amps of current you blast in there it still takes time
to convert the plate material back to it's original state.

Try .http://www.batteryfaq.org/ for more information then you ever
wanted to know about batteries.

The writer sells various battery meters, combiners, regulators, etc.,
but his writing is impartial and very informative.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 21:55:09 +0000, Larry wrote:

" wrote in news:b2f93b8e-4554-434c-
:

What's the down side?



Oil company profits.....for my president's family.

Careful Larry,

That sounds completely un-American to me.

Be very careful lest you end up in Cuba - ouside of Constitutional
protection.

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 06:57:30 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 10:07:10 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Gordon" wrote in message
news:GIydnZabE_kwlx_VnZ2dnUVZ_vzinZ2d@wavecable. com...
Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

$1000 fridges my ass....


If you don;t stop going on about R-12 the tree hugging gestapo is
going to come calling and burn a cross on your lawn, or something. My
God man, you are probably responsible for half the ozone hole all by
yourself :-(


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Watching a greenie show on TV last night and it showed an illustration of
the hole in the ozone layer. Their statement was that it was caused by man
but luckily it healed itself! HUH?
G


Not quite... didn't heal itself until after we stopped dumping the
refrigerant into the atmosphere.

http://www.livescience.com/environme...zone_hole.html
http://www.techmonitor.net/techmon/0...zo_science.htm


Since here in Thailand, and probably all over the third world, they
are happily using R-12, and dumping it to atmosphere it probably goes
to prove that the Americans were responsible.

Damn, if the Indians hadn't sold Manhattan Island we wouldn't have had
all these problems :-)
Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Not necessarily Bruce. Does a foreigner have to instruct you in the
history of your nation?

The Indians sold it to the Dutch who later passed it on to the
English. Don't blame the poor Indians but the Dutch. If they had
retained it, it would be now effectively governed by EU regulations
and the pollution problem would be lessened. Look at Curacao (still
Dutch) - being so close to the cocaine of Colombia and Venezuela, they
have adopted a zero tolerance approach to drugs and a good
environmental policy. Result, probably better at present than in
Manhattan.

cheers

Peter

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

Since here in Thailand, and probably all over the third world, they
are happily using R-12, and dumping it to atmosphere it probably goes
to prove that the Americans were responsible.



Not to mention the extensive air pollution controls on all those thousands
of 2-stroke little trucks running old motor oil at 15:1 premix....

It's those damned Americans....every time. They love to be blamed.


So, we should just go for it? Just because someone else is doing something
wrong does not give us license to do something wrong.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:44:25 +1000, Herodotus
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 21:55:09 +0000, Larry wrote:

" wrote in news:b2f93b8e-4554-434c-
:

What's the down side?



Oil company profits.....for my president's family.

Careful Larry,

That sounds completely un-American to me.

Be very careful lest you end up in Cuba - ouside of Constitutional
protection.


But I hear it is real cheap and a lot of girls. A spanish speaking
Thailand?

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:51:22 +1000, Herodotus
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 06:57:30 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 10:07:10 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Gordon" wrote in message
news:GIydnZabE_kwlx_VnZ2dnUVZ_vzinZ2d@wavecable .com...
Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

$1000 fridges my ass....


If you don;t stop going on about R-12 the tree hugging gestapo is
going to come calling and burn a cross on your lawn, or something. My
God man, you are probably responsible for half the ozone hole all by
yourself :-(


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Watching a greenie show on TV last night and it showed an illustration of
the hole in the ozone layer. Their statement was that it was caused by man
but luckily it healed itself! HUH?
G


Not quite... didn't heal itself until after we stopped dumping the
refrigerant into the atmosphere.

http://www.livescience.com/environme...zone_hole.html
http://www.techmonitor.net/techmon/0...zo_science.htm


Since here in Thailand, and probably all over the third world, they
are happily using R-12, and dumping it to atmosphere it probably goes
to prove that the Americans were responsible.

Damn, if the Indians hadn't sold Manhattan Island we wouldn't have had
all these problems :-)
Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Not necessarily Bruce. Does a foreigner have to instruct you in the
history of your nation?

The Indians sold it to the Dutch who later passed it on to the
English. Don't blame the poor Indians but the Dutch. If they had
retained it, it would be now effectively governed by EU regulations
and the pollution problem would be lessened. Look at Curacao (still
Dutch) - being so close to the cocaine of Colombia and Venezuela, they
have adopted a zero tolerance approach to drugs and a good
environmental policy. Result, probably better at present than in
Manhattan.

cheers

Peter


EU regulations? You should be so lucky. From all I read about their
boat regulations I'll just stay right here.

"Better then in Manhattan" Are they killing the dealers like they do
in Malaysia & Singapore? At least it keeps the prisons from getting
congested.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 23:19:52 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
.. .
Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

Since here in Thailand, and probably all over the third world, they
are happily using R-12, and dumping it to atmosphere it probably goes
to prove that the Americans were responsible.



Not to mention the extensive air pollution controls on all those thousands
of 2-stroke little trucks running old motor oil at 15:1 premix....

It's those damned Americans....every time. They love to be blamed.


So, we should just go for it? Just because someone else is doing something
wrong does not give us license to do something wrong.

Then what are you doing in Iraq?


Sorry the temptation overcame me.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:33:47 -0400, jeff wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
Not to disparage anyone but have a look at the battery manufacturer's
specs and see whether they recommend that high a charging rate. I
suspect you'll see something like 10 - 15% of rated capacity.

That's what Trojan says for their wet cells, though I've done a lot of
charging at more like 18-20% will no ill affects. My first set did die
after 7 years (they might have gone another year or so if I had tended
to them better over a harsh winter), but frankly, they are the cheapest
part of the system.

For their gel and AGM batteries, they say 20%

From all I can read the rate of charge is determined more by what it
is doing to the electrolyte then anything else. If you read up on car
alternators you will read many references to "without excess water
loss". So, probably if your batteries aren't getting hot and aren't
gassing excessively the current is not excessive. I think I read
somewhere 120 degrees F was the hottest allowable.

But the point Larry keeps making, and every competent description I
have ever read about lead acid batteries emphasizes is that because
the process is a chemical process it takes some time to accomplish. No
matter how many amps of current you blast in there it still takes time
to convert the plate material back to it's original state.

Its certainly true that there are limits, and its especially true that
to achieve 100% takes a long time, but the empirical evidence remains:
good wet cells can be charged at about 20% of their capacity over the
range of 50% to 80% charge. In practice this means the typical 4 6-Volt
bank (450 AmpHours) can be given a useful charge in about an hour.



Try .http://www.batteryfaq.org/ for more information then you ever
wanted to know about batteries.

This says not to go over 25% for wet cells, a rate that Larry seems to
say is physically impossible. Sometimes my systems approach this level
briefly at startup, but generally I limit it to 20%, or 90 Amps. In
practice, most of the charging is between 75 and 85 Amps.


The writer sells various battery meters, combiners, regulators, etc.,
but his writing is impartial and very informative.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)