Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 02:37:21 +0000, Larry wrote:

" wrote in news:d58baedd-dd67-
:

On Jul 19, 5:22*pm, Brian Whatcott wrote:
..
Still, give a person credit for gun-shyness from a battery fast-
charge
accident! ...

Oh yes. An exploding battery while offshore is a nightmare! I
appreciate the concern. I think Larry is incorrect in his assertion,
but I'm listening because if he convinces me that he isn't then I'm
going to change my ways fast.

-- Tom



I heard a noise about taking the VOLTAGE REGULATOR off the alternator
and putting a manual current control on the field winding so it can be
"cranked up" to whatever charging current some idiot wants. Look back,
I forgot who said it. This is the absolute stupidest idea I've seen
about battery charging. I know why they are doing it. they've been
watching that ammeter that starts out charging like hell for the first
few minutes, then DROPPING LIKE A ROCK as the surface of the plates
becomes replated and the ions in the near-plate electrolyte are used up.
Right there at the surface of the plates, in the worst possible place,
there's a tiny slice of battery that has already charged. When more and
more current is shoved through it, by cranking up the charging (voltage
is the ONLY way to overcharge ANY lead-acid battery) that little slice
turns current directly into heat, gassifying the water at the barrier
into O2 and H2 and heating those plates!

That was me and I didn't put the manual control on to charge faster. I
put it on so if the regulator failed I could control the alternator. I
was commenting that modern regulators run the field at battery
voltage when the battery is low so my manual control couldn't put out
any more voltage then the regulator.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Jul 19, 8:14*pm, Larry wrote:
...
Arithmetic: *168W/13.8V=12.17 amps.
...

Yes, but you didn't need to do that, they've got that and more all
tabulated for you:

http://www.rparts.com/Catalog/Major_...compressor.pdf
(http://tinyurl.com/5mgbm6)

Keep in mind the BD80 is huge. I use a 35 each for my fridge and
freezer.

-- Tom.

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:33:47 -0400, jeff wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

Not to disparage anyone but have a look at the battery manufacturer's
specs and see whether they recommend that high a charging rate. I
suspect you'll see something like 10 - 15% of rated capacity.


That's what Trojan says for their wet cells, though I've done a lot of
charging at more like 18-20% will no ill affects. My first set did die
after 7 years (they might have gone another year or so if I had tended
to them better over a harsh winter), but frankly, they are the cheapest
part of the system.

For their gel and AGM batteries, they say 20%

From all I can read the rate of charge is determined more by what it
is doing to the electrolyte then anything else. If you read up on car
alternators you will read many references to "without excess water
loss". So, probably if your batteries aren't getting hot and aren't
gassing excessively the current is not excessive. I think I read
somewhere 120 degrees F was the hottest allowable.

But the point Larry keeps making, and every competent description I
have ever read about lead acid batteries emphasizes is that because
the process is a chemical process it takes some time to accomplish. No
matter how many amps of current you blast in there it still takes time
to convert the plate material back to it's original state.

Try .http://www.batteryfaq.org/ for more information then you ever
wanted to know about batteries.

The writer sells various battery meters, combiners, regulators, etc.,
but his writing is impartial and very informative.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 21:55:09 +0000, Larry wrote:

" wrote in news:b2f93b8e-4554-434c-
:

What's the down side?



Oil company profits.....for my president's family.

Careful Larry,

That sounds completely un-American to me.

Be very careful lest you end up in Cuba - ouside of Constitutional
protection.

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 06:57:30 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 10:07:10 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Gordon" wrote in message
news:GIydnZabE_kwlx_VnZ2dnUVZ_vzinZ2d@wavecable. com...
Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

$1000 fridges my ass....


If you don;t stop going on about R-12 the tree hugging gestapo is
going to come calling and burn a cross on your lawn, or something. My
God man, you are probably responsible for half the ozone hole all by
yourself :-(


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Watching a greenie show on TV last night and it showed an illustration of
the hole in the ozone layer. Their statement was that it was caused by man
but luckily it healed itself! HUH?
G


Not quite... didn't heal itself until after we stopped dumping the
refrigerant into the atmosphere.

http://www.livescience.com/environme...zone_hole.html
http://www.techmonitor.net/techmon/0...zo_science.htm


Since here in Thailand, and probably all over the third world, they
are happily using R-12, and dumping it to atmosphere it probably goes
to prove that the Americans were responsible.

Damn, if the Indians hadn't sold Manhattan Island we wouldn't have had
all these problems :-)
Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Not necessarily Bruce. Does a foreigner have to instruct you in the
history of your nation?

The Indians sold it to the Dutch who later passed it on to the
English. Don't blame the poor Indians but the Dutch. If they had
retained it, it would be now effectively governed by EU regulations
and the pollution problem would be lessened. Look at Curacao (still
Dutch) - being so close to the cocaine of Colombia and Venezuela, they
have adopted a zero tolerance approach to drugs and a good
environmental policy. Result, probably better at present than in
Manhattan.

cheers

Peter

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

Since here in Thailand, and probably all over the third world, they
are happily using R-12, and dumping it to atmosphere it probably goes
to prove that the Americans were responsible.



Not to mention the extensive air pollution controls on all those thousands
of 2-stroke little trucks running old motor oil at 15:1 premix....

It's those damned Americans....every time. They love to be blamed.


So, we should just go for it? Just because someone else is doing something
wrong does not give us license to do something wrong.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:44:25 +1000, Herodotus
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 21:55:09 +0000, Larry wrote:

" wrote in news:b2f93b8e-4554-434c-
:

What's the down side?



Oil company profits.....for my president's family.

Careful Larry,

That sounds completely un-American to me.

Be very careful lest you end up in Cuba - ouside of Constitutional
protection.


But I hear it is real cheap and a lot of girls. A spanish speaking
Thailand?

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:51:22 +1000, Herodotus
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 06:57:30 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 10:07:10 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Gordon" wrote in message
news:GIydnZabE_kwlx_VnZ2dnUVZ_vzinZ2d@wavecable .com...
Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

$1000 fridges my ass....


If you don;t stop going on about R-12 the tree hugging gestapo is
going to come calling and burn a cross on your lawn, or something. My
God man, you are probably responsible for half the ozone hole all by
yourself :-(


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Watching a greenie show on TV last night and it showed an illustration of
the hole in the ozone layer. Their statement was that it was caused by man
but luckily it healed itself! HUH?
G


Not quite... didn't heal itself until after we stopped dumping the
refrigerant into the atmosphere.

http://www.livescience.com/environme...zone_hole.html
http://www.techmonitor.net/techmon/0...zo_science.htm


Since here in Thailand, and probably all over the third world, they
are happily using R-12, and dumping it to atmosphere it probably goes
to prove that the Americans were responsible.

Damn, if the Indians hadn't sold Manhattan Island we wouldn't have had
all these problems :-)
Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Not necessarily Bruce. Does a foreigner have to instruct you in the
history of your nation?

The Indians sold it to the Dutch who later passed it on to the
English. Don't blame the poor Indians but the Dutch. If they had
retained it, it would be now effectively governed by EU regulations
and the pollution problem would be lessened. Look at Curacao (still
Dutch) - being so close to the cocaine of Colombia and Venezuela, they
have adopted a zero tolerance approach to drugs and a good
environmental policy. Result, probably better at present than in
Manhattan.

cheers

Peter


EU regulations? You should be so lucky. From all I read about their
boat regulations I'll just stay right here.

"Better then in Manhattan" Are they killing the dealers like they do
in Malaysia & Singapore? At least it keeps the prisons from getting
congested.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 23:19:52 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
.. .
Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

Since here in Thailand, and probably all over the third world, they
are happily using R-12, and dumping it to atmosphere it probably goes
to prove that the Americans were responsible.



Not to mention the extensive air pollution controls on all those thousands
of 2-stroke little trucks running old motor oil at 15:1 premix....

It's those damned Americans....every time. They love to be blamed.


So, we should just go for it? Just because someone else is doing something
wrong does not give us license to do something wrong.

Then what are you doing in Iraq?


Sorry the temptation overcame me.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:33:47 -0400, jeff wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
Not to disparage anyone but have a look at the battery manufacturer's
specs and see whether they recommend that high a charging rate. I
suspect you'll see something like 10 - 15% of rated capacity.

That's what Trojan says for their wet cells, though I've done a lot of
charging at more like 18-20% will no ill affects. My first set did die
after 7 years (they might have gone another year or so if I had tended
to them better over a harsh winter), but frankly, they are the cheapest
part of the system.

For their gel and AGM batteries, they say 20%

From all I can read the rate of charge is determined more by what it
is doing to the electrolyte then anything else. If you read up on car
alternators you will read many references to "without excess water
loss". So, probably if your batteries aren't getting hot and aren't
gassing excessively the current is not excessive. I think I read
somewhere 120 degrees F was the hottest allowable.

But the point Larry keeps making, and every competent description I
have ever read about lead acid batteries emphasizes is that because
the process is a chemical process it takes some time to accomplish. No
matter how many amps of current you blast in there it still takes time
to convert the plate material back to it's original state.

Its certainly true that there are limits, and its especially true that
to achieve 100% takes a long time, but the empirical evidence remains:
good wet cells can be charged at about 20% of their capacity over the
range of 50% to 80% charge. In practice this means the typical 4 6-Volt
bank (450 AmpHours) can be given a useful charge in about an hour.



Try .http://www.batteryfaq.org/ for more information then you ever
wanted to know about batteries.

This says not to go over 25% for wet cells, a rate that Larry seems to
say is physically impossible. Sometimes my systems approach this level
briefly at startup, but generally I limit it to 20%, or 90 Amps. In
practice, most of the charging is between 75 and 85 Amps.


The writer sells various battery meters, combiners, regulators, etc.,
but his writing is impartial and very informative.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

Larry wrote:
jeff wrote in
:

1 kWh per day.
Supplying this with an inverter would take over 100 AmpHours.

1KWh at 13.8V = 72AH per day....1000/13.8V

Not much of a problem for a 330AH golf cart pair....


So your golf cart batteries put out 13.8 Volts under load? Are they
those new 7 cell batteries? And send me one of the 100% efficient
invertors.

And as always, you're missing the real points. The important issue is
not having a big enough bank to run for one day (unless that's all the
time you're away from the dock), its recharging the batteries.

And of course for the two systems I compared, for the needs of a
cruiser, a 10 cubic foot system that includes a large deep freeze and
runs on 60 Amp-hours a day is vastly superior to 5.7 foot fridge with
tiny semi-freezer that takes 100 Amp-hours. Whether its worth the 10X
(or more) price difference is academic.

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 08:15:36 -0400, jeff wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:33:47 -0400, jeff wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
Not to disparage anyone but have a look at the battery manufacturer's
specs and see whether they recommend that high a charging rate. I
suspect you'll see something like 10 - 15% of rated capacity.

That's what Trojan says for their wet cells, though I've done a lot of
charging at more like 18-20% will no ill affects. My first set did die
after 7 years (they might have gone another year or so if I had tended
to them better over a harsh winter), but frankly, they are the cheapest
part of the system.

For their gel and AGM batteries, they say 20%

From all I can read the rate of charge is determined more by what it
is doing to the electrolyte then anything else. If you read up on car
alternators you will read many references to "without excess water
loss". So, probably if your batteries aren't getting hot and aren't
gassing excessively the current is not excessive. I think I read
somewhere 120 degrees F was the hottest allowable.

But the point Larry keeps making, and every competent description I
have ever read about lead acid batteries emphasizes is that because
the process is a chemical process it takes some time to accomplish. No
matter how many amps of current you blast in there it still takes time
to convert the plate material back to it's original state.

Its certainly true that there are limits, and its especially true that
to achieve 100% takes a long time, but the empirical evidence remains:
good wet cells can be charged at about 20% of their capacity over the
range of 50% to 80% charge. In practice this means the typical 4 6-Volt
bank (450 AmpHours) can be given a useful charge in about an hour.



Try .http://www.batteryfaq.org/ for more information then you ever
wanted to know about batteries.

This says not to go over 25% for wet cells, a rate that Larry seems to
say is physically impossible. Sometimes my systems approach this level
briefly at startup, but generally I limit it to 20%, or 90 Amps. In
practice, most of the charging is between 75 and 85 Amps.


As I read Larry's post he is saying that if you dump a bunch of amps
into the battery only some of them actually charge the battery. the
rest turn into heat which is true.

Another site http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/carfaq9.htm recommends:

The BULK stage is where the charger current is constant and the
battery voltage increases, which is normally during the first 80% of
the recharge. Give the battery whatever current it will accept as long
as it does not exceed 25% of the 20 hour (expressed "C/20") ampere
hour (AH) capacity rating, 10% of the Reserve Capacity (RC) rating,
wet batteries do not exceed 125° F (51.5° C), and VRLA batteries do
not exceed 100° F (37.8° C).

which seems like a sensible recommendation. I recently read something
about batteries with very low impedance that can be charged at very
high amperage levels so obviously all batteries are not created
equally. But, what I do myself is one thing but what I recommend to
someone else is going to be pretty conservative, as above.


The writer sells various battery meters, combiners, regulators, etc.,
but his writing is impartial and very informative.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 08:15:36 -0400, jeff wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:33:47 -0400, jeff wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
Not to disparage anyone but have a look at the battery manufacturer's
specs and see whether they recommend that high a charging rate. I
suspect you'll see something like 10 - 15% of rated capacity.

That's what Trojan says for their wet cells, though I've done a lot of
charging at more like 18-20% will no ill affects. My first set did die
after 7 years (they might have gone another year or so if I had tended
to them better over a harsh winter), but frankly, they are the cheapest
part of the system.

For their gel and AGM batteries, they say 20%
From all I can read the rate of charge is determined more by what it
is doing to the electrolyte then anything else. If you read up on car
alternators you will read many references to "without excess water
loss". So, probably if your batteries aren't getting hot and aren't
gassing excessively the current is not excessive. I think I read
somewhere 120 degrees F was the hottest allowable.

But the point Larry keeps making, and every competent description I
have ever read about lead acid batteries emphasizes is that because
the process is a chemical process it takes some time to accomplish. No
matter how many amps of current you blast in there it still takes time
to convert the plate material back to it's original state.
Its certainly true that there are limits, and its especially true that
to achieve 100% takes a long time, but the empirical evidence remains:
good wet cells can be charged at about 20% of their capacity over the
range of 50% to 80% charge. In practice this means the typical 4 6-Volt
bank (450 AmpHours) can be given a useful charge in about an hour.


Try .http://www.batteryfaq.org/ for more information then you ever
wanted to know about batteries.
This says not to go over 25% for wet cells, a rate that Larry seems to
say is physically impossible. Sometimes my systems approach this level
briefly at startup, but generally I limit it to 20%, or 90 Amps. In
practice, most of the charging is between 75 and 85 Amps.


As I read Larry's post he is saying that if you dump a bunch of amps
into the battery only some of them actually charge the battery. the
rest turn into heat which is true.

Of course, its true of all processes. Nothing is 100% efficient. The
questions are, how efficient is it, and how quickly can you charge at
reasonable efficiency. Ranting in ALL CAPS that its physically
impossible because bad math proves it doesn't make Larry an expert.

So here's a quick calc: 90 Amps times 14 Volts times 13% (Trojan says
charge efficiency is 87%) yields 164 Watts of waste heat. Certainly in
an overly constrained space, this can add up, but its no more than a
table lamp or even a TV. Maybe when I have time I'll compute how
quickly the mass of the bank will heat up - I wouldn't be surprised if
an hour of charging is not really enough to heat to bank to critical levels.

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 10:27:14 -0400, jeff wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 08:15:36 -0400, jeff wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:33:47 -0400, jeff wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
Not to disparage anyone but have a look at the battery manufacturer's
specs and see whether they recommend that high a charging rate. I
suspect you'll see something like 10 - 15% of rated capacity.

That's what Trojan says for their wet cells, though I've done a lot of
charging at more like 18-20% will no ill affects. My first set did die
after 7 years (they might have gone another year or so if I had tended
to them better over a harsh winter), but frankly, they are the cheapest
part of the system.

For their gel and AGM batteries, they say 20%
From all I can read the rate of charge is determined more by what it
is doing to the electrolyte then anything else. If you read up on car
alternators you will read many references to "without excess water
loss". So, probably if your batteries aren't getting hot and aren't
gassing excessively the current is not excessive. I think I read
somewhere 120 degrees F was the hottest allowable.

But the point Larry keeps making, and every competent description I
have ever read about lead acid batteries emphasizes is that because
the process is a chemical process it takes some time to accomplish. No
matter how many amps of current you blast in there it still takes time
to convert the plate material back to it's original state.
Its certainly true that there are limits, and its especially true that
to achieve 100% takes a long time, but the empirical evidence remains:
good wet cells can be charged at about 20% of their capacity over the
range of 50% to 80% charge. In practice this means the typical 4 6-Volt
bank (450 AmpHours) can be given a useful charge in about an hour.


Try .http://www.batteryfaq.org/ for more information then you ever
wanted to know about batteries.
This says not to go over 25% for wet cells, a rate that Larry seems to
say is physically impossible. Sometimes my systems approach this level
briefly at startup, but generally I limit it to 20%, or 90 Amps. In
practice, most of the charging is between 75 and 85 Amps.


As I read Larry's post he is saying that if you dump a bunch of amps
into the battery only some of them actually charge the battery. the
rest turn into heat which is true.

Of course, its true of all processes. Nothing is 100% efficient. The
questions are, how efficient is it, and how quickly can you charge at
reasonable efficiency. Ranting in ALL CAPS that its physically
impossible because bad math proves it doesn't make Larry an expert.

So here's a quick calc: 90 Amps times 14 Volts times 13% (Trojan says
charge efficiency is 87%) yields 164 Watts of waste heat. Certainly in
an overly constrained space, this can add up, but its no more than a
table lamp or even a TV. Maybe when I have time I'll compute how
quickly the mass of the bank will heat up - I wouldn't be surprised if
an hour of charging is not really enough to heat to bank to critical levels.


Go to http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/index.html and read the technical
info (there are several sections 1,2,3) look for all the references to
"peukert". It is a bit more complicated then V * A.

But again, the manufacturers all seem to say that temperature is the
controlling factor, not amps, per se. As far as I can tell the
recommended amperages are there to restrict the temperature rise. The
number I have read is 120 deg. F max.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 23:19:52 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
. ..
Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

Since here in Thailand, and probably all over the third world, they
are happily using R-12, and dumping it to atmosphere it probably goes
to prove that the Americans were responsible.



Not to mention the extensive air pollution controls on all those
thousands
of 2-stroke little trucks running old motor oil at 15:1 premix....

It's those damned Americans....every time. They love to be blamed.


So, we should just go for it? Just because someone else is doing something
wrong does not give us license to do something wrong.

Then what are you doing in Iraq?


Sorry the temptation overcame me.


It's a great temptation to lump all Americans with Bu****, so I forgive you!

I find it ironic.. the "surge" is working by driving the terrorists to
Afganistan. If we had gone after them in that place first... sigh, you're
right it's tempting.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 03:14:32 +0000, in message

Larry wrote:

I don't understand how they get 274 watts of cooling with only 168 watts
input. Must be physics magic!

It's not magic. You should review your thermodynamics for cooling
cycles. The only power input required for cooling is to overcome
inefficiencies in heat transport, hence coefficients of performance
(not efficiencies) considerably larger than 1.

A COP of about 1.8 suggests a bad design / installation.

If you don't understand it, you should either ask for advice or read
the specs and instructions.

Ryk

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 09:51:08 +1000, in message

Herodotus wrote:

Hi Ryk,
Thanks for this as I don't know how real the company's power usage
figures are and at what outside temperature they are quoted for.

It really depends on your cool space volume and insulation, so they
can't quote figures for your boat. I got a huge improvement with an
insulation upgrade a few years ago. All low tech, just new foam in
place of the stuff that was rotting.

I note that the one I am looking at states that it is for a
refridgerator, not a freezer. However an optional extra is an ice
making tray. Does this mean that one could have a small freezer
compartment overflowing to a larger fridge one. A freezer would be
great but not vital. Iced water would be nice though.

I don't know. My holding plate gets cold enough to make a thick layer
of frost, which later melts. I don't know if I would trust it to keep
anything frozen, since the ASU controller aims to keep the fridge cool
by letting the holding plate thaw when the engine isn't running.

For fridge management, I put fresh meat and some beverages really
close to the plate.

Ryk

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:04:51 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:44:25 +1000, Herodotus
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 21:55:09 +0000, Larry wrote:

" wrote in news:b2f93b8e-4554-434c-
:

What's the down side?



Oil company profits.....for my president's family.

Careful Larry,

That sounds completely un-American to me.

Be very careful lest you end up in Cuba - ouside of Constitutional
protection.


But I hear it is real cheap and a lot of girls. A spanish speaking
Thailand?

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Perhaps but the part of Cuba I was referring to has barbed wire,
waterboarding and US troops. It's just that I can't spell it. I
suppose they may have semi-naked Cuban women parading outside the
wire. Like waterboarding, it may not be considered torture.

I am following the battery/fridge thread with avidity.

Looking forward to the warmth in a few days. It is damned cold here.
The Pope flies home today so the masses of Catholic pilgrims will be
gone soon and Sydney will be back to normal. No more singing euphoric
youngsters and flags in your face walking two abreast in long lines
down the footpath (sidewalk to the barbarians) and blocking it in
groups at times forcing a detour onto the roadway. We will revert to
the sullen, untrusting and hardened "I'll get you before you get me"
and "I paid for this seat on the bus/train/ferry and I'm not going to
stand up for anyone regardless of age and infirmity" citizenry once
more.

cheers
Peter

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:42:36 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 23:19:52 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
. ..
Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

Since here in Thailand, and probably all over the third world, they
are happily using R-12, and dumping it to atmosphere it probably goes
to prove that the Americans were responsible.



Not to mention the extensive air pollution controls on all those thousands
of 2-stroke little trucks running old motor oil at 15:1 premix....

It's those damned Americans....every time. They love to be blamed.


So, we should just go for it? Just because someone else is doing something
wrong does not give us license to do something wrong.

Then what are you doing in Iraq?


Sorry the temptation overcame me.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Bruce,

I would have liked to have said that but was mortally afraid of a
tirade of accusations of anti-Americanism and "You hate us don't you"
and "You are jealous and angry that you can't live here" - so I
refrained from commenting.

Peter

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 09:42:41 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 23:19:52 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

Since here in Thailand, and probably all over the third world, they
are happily using R-12, and dumping it to atmosphere it probably goes
to prove that the Americans were responsible.



Not to mention the extensive air pollution controls on all those
thousands
of 2-stroke little trucks running old motor oil at 15:1 premix....

It's those damned Americans....every time. They love to be blamed.


So, we should just go for it? Just because someone else is doing something
wrong does not give us license to do something wrong.

Then what are you doing in Iraq?


Sorry the temptation overcame me.


It's a great temptation to lump all Americans with Bu****, so I forgive you!

I find it ironic.. the "surge" is working by driving the terrorists to
Afganistan. If we had gone after them in that place first... sigh, you're
right it's tempting.

I must have missed something.

Have they found oil in Afghanistan?

I for one am interested in the outcome as historically nobody from
outside has managed to completely conquer and rule that country from
Alexander, the British, to the Russians. If you have ever experienced
the tribal nature of most of its citizens you would understand more
the difficulties. Xenophobia is in the genes.

Peter

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:27:57 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:



Not necessarily Bruce. Does a foreigner have to instruct you in the
history of your nation?

The Indians sold it to the Dutch who later passed it on to the
English. Don't blame the poor Indians but the Dutch. If they had
retained it, it would be now effectively governed by EU regulations
and the pollution problem would be lessened. Look at Curacao (still
Dutch) - being so close to the cocaine of Colombia and Venezuela, they
have adopted a zero tolerance approach to drugs and a good
environmental policy. Result, probably better at present than in
Manhattan.

cheers

Peter


EU regulations? You should be so lucky. From all I read about their
boat regulations I'll just stay right here.

"Better then in Manhattan" Are they killing the dealers like they do
in Malaysia & Singapore? At least it keeps the prisons from getting
congested.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Capital punishment is not part of the EU though I would probably
prefer a Dutch prison than an Asian one. In Malaysia now, foreigners
get the same treatment as everyone else. No soft mattress and no
specially prepared western food like they used to. It's rice and bare
boards for you my boy now.

Regardless, the USA has the highest per capita prison population in
the world and it does not seem to have slowed the growth of drug
importation one bit. If the demand is there, someone will supply. I
don't know if execution is any answer but I do know that when the
dealers and smugglers are caught is SEA they are absolutely terrified
of the prospect of the certain death that awaits them. You can see it
in their eyes.

If I am ever tempted to smuggle, all I would need to remember is those
faces. Cold shiver territory.

Peter

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

"Herodotus" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:42:36 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 23:19:52 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

Since here in Thailand, and probably all over the third world, they
are happily using R-12, and dumping it to atmosphere it probably goes
to prove that the Americans were responsible.



Not to mention the extensive air pollution controls on all those
thousands
of 2-stroke little trucks running old motor oil at 15:1 premix....

It's those damned Americans....every time. They love to be blamed.


So, we should just go for it? Just because someone else is doing
something
wrong does not give us license to do something wrong.

Then what are you doing in Iraq?


Sorry the temptation overcame me.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Bruce,

I would have liked to have said that but was mortally afraid of a
tirade of accusations of anti-Americanism and "You hate us don't you"
and "You are jealous and angry that you can't live here" - so I
refrained from commenting.

Peter


Why are you afraid? You don't have to be unless you disagree with the Bush
Administration. And, only about 70% here in the US have to be afraid.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

I would have liked to have said that but was mortally afraid of a
tirade of accusations of anti-Americanism and "You hate us don't you"
and "You are jealous and angry that you can't live here" - so I
refrained from commenting.

Peter


Why are you afraid? You don't have to be unless you disagree with the Bush
Administration. And, only about 70% here in the US have to be afraid.

Not really afraid JC. I just remember some slight comment I posted a
couple of year's back - I think it was a genuine comment I made about
a mass shooting in the States and what I considered far too easy
access to firearms. I really got flamed with the above comments and
more. Everybody's friend, he of the short member, really got into his
stride. Rather pathetically really. I guess it's very easy to a hawk
when you haven't any chance of being on the receiving end of a gun.
The comments didn't upset me, but were an interesting reaction.

cheers
Peter

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:44:34 +1000, Herodotus
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 09:42:41 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 23:19:52 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
3...
Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

Since here in Thailand, and probably all over the third world, they
are happily using R-12, and dumping it to atmosphere it probably goes
to prove that the Americans were responsible.



Not to mention the extensive air pollution controls on all those
thousands
of 2-stroke little trucks running old motor oil at 15:1 premix....

It's those damned Americans....every time. They love to be blamed.


So, we should just go for it? Just because someone else is doing something
wrong does not give us license to do something wrong.

Then what are you doing in Iraq?


Sorry the temptation overcame me.


It's a great temptation to lump all Americans with Bu****, so I forgive you!

I find it ironic.. the "surge" is working by driving the terrorists to
Afganistan. If we had gone after them in that place first... sigh, you're
right it's tempting.

I must have missed something.

Have they found oil in Afghanistan?

I for one am interested in the outcome as historically nobody from
outside has managed to completely conquer and rule that country from
Alexander, the British, to the Russians. If you have ever experienced
the tribal nature of most of its citizens you would understand more
the difficulties. Xenophobia is in the genes.

Peter


This is one of the points that really makes me wonder about how
sensible the current U.S. Government is. I, just a guy who reads, with
no mammoth CIA/NSA/Whatever to do my research knew long before even
Iraq I that the country was artificially created and contained several
groups that hated each other and probably was ungovernable by any
other means then brute force (much like Yugoslavia) and once the
strong central government fell there would be chaos. And, surprise,
surprise, I was right.

But, and this is my point, if I could figure this out why couldn't the
whole U.S. Government with their mammoth intelligence gathering and
analyzing capability figure it out?

And if they could figure it out then what are they doing there?

And don't talk about "control of the oil" as that is just B.S. The
existing Iraqi oil fields are all produced by joint ventures with
European companies - Italian and French if memory serves.

Rant OFF

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:34:45 +1000, Herodotus
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:04:51 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:44:25 +1000, Herodotus
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 21:55:09 +0000, Larry wrote:

" wrote in news:b2f93b8e-4554-434c-
:

What's the down side?



Oil company profits.....for my president's family.

Careful Larry,

That sounds completely un-American to me.

Be very careful lest you end up in Cuba - ouside of Constitutional
protection.


But I hear it is real cheap and a lot of girls. A spanish speaking
Thailand?

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Perhaps but the part of Cuba I was referring to has barbed wire,
waterboarding and US troops. It's just that I can't spell it. I
suppose they may have semi-naked Cuban women parading outside the
wire. Like waterboarding, it may not be considered torture.

I am following the battery/fridge thread with avidity.

Looking forward to the warmth in a few days. It is damned cold here.
The Pope flies home today so the masses of Catholic pilgrims will be
gone soon and Sydney will be back to normal. No more singing euphoric
youngsters and flags in your face walking two abreast in long lines
down the footpath (sidewalk to the barbarians) and blocking it in
groups at times forcing a detour onto the roadway. We will revert to
the sullen, untrusting and hardened "I'll get you before you get me"
and "I paid for this seat on the bus/train/ferry and I'm not going to
stand up for anyone regardless of age and infirmity" citizenry once
more.

cheers
Peter


Ah, you were talking about the U.S. military base. I knew people who
were stationed there years ago and they liked it very much. Probably
wouldn't like it so well today.

citizens: I know a few Australians from either the N. Territories
or W.A. who were raised in the outback. The nicest, helpful, friendly
folk you ever want to meet. and then there are the ones from sidney
and the other "civilized" places....


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:55:14 +1000, Herodotus
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:27:57 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:



Not necessarily Bruce. Does a foreigner have to instruct you in the
history of your nation?

The Indians sold it to the Dutch who later passed it on to the
English. Don't blame the poor Indians but the Dutch. If they had
retained it, it would be now effectively governed by EU regulations
and the pollution problem would be lessened. Look at Curacao (still
Dutch) - being so close to the cocaine of Colombia and Venezuela, they
have adopted a zero tolerance approach to drugs and a good
environmental policy. Result, probably better at present than in
Manhattan.

cheers

Peter


EU regulations? You should be so lucky. From all I read about their
boat regulations I'll just stay right here.

"Better then in Manhattan" Are they killing the dealers like they do
in Malaysia & Singapore? At least it keeps the prisons from getting
congested.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Capital punishment is not part of the EU though I would probably
prefer a Dutch prison than an Asian one. In Malaysia now, foreigners
get the same treatment as everyone else. No soft mattress and no
specially prepared western food like they used to. It's rice and bare
boards for you my boy now.

Regardless, the USA has the highest per capita prison population in
the world and it does not seem to have slowed the growth of drug
importation one bit. If the demand is there, someone will supply. I
don't know if execution is any answer but I do know that when the
dealers and smugglers are caught is SEA they are absolutely terrified
of the prospect of the certain death that awaits them. You can see it
in their eyes.

If I am ever tempted to smuggle, all I would need to remember is those
faces. Cold shiver territory.

Peter


I'm of the conservative "Hang 'um" school of justice but one of the
common arguments made by the tree hugging do gooders is that the death
sentence does not deter crime, and here you are telling me that it
does......

Actually, I was once offered the opportunity to carry a small load of
some sort of recreational chemicals (the discussion never got that far
that WHAT was discussed) from Thailand to Malaysia or Singapore on the
boat. I can honestly say that, at least in my case, it certainly
deterred me :-)


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:26:30 +1000, Herodotus
wrote:


I would have liked to have said that but was mortally afraid of a
tirade of accusations of anti-Americanism and "You hate us don't you"
and "You are jealous and angry that you can't live here" - so I
refrained from commenting.

Peter


Why are you afraid? You don't have to be unless you disagree with the Bush
Administration. And, only about 70% here in the US have to be afraid.

Not really afraid JC. I just remember some slight comment I posted a
couple of year's back - I think it was a genuine comment I made about
a mass shooting in the States and what I considered far too easy
access to firearms. I really got flamed with the above comments and
more. Everybody's friend, he of the short member, really got into his
stride. Rather pathetically really. I guess it's very easy to a hawk
when you haven't any chance of being on the receiving end of a gun.
The comments didn't upset me, but were an interesting reaction.

cheers
Peter


I've lived outside the U.S. for enough years to view the place
impartially but even I know enough to stay away from some of the
emotional issues. Abortions, Guns, Gas Guzzling autos, etc......

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in
easolutions:

So, we should just go for it? Just because someone else is doing
something wrong does not give us license to do something wrong.

-

We Americans stopped using R-12, by law, years ago. The ozone hole over
ANTARCTICA on the OTHER end of the planet has gotten LARGER because it's
caused by SOLAR ACTIVITY, not humans who are the most insignificant speck
in the astronomical size of everything else.

I bet of we bring back R-12 (and drop the price from $10/12oz back to
68c/16oz) the ozone hole over Antarctica will go on doing exactly whatit
has been doing for a few million years before Americans were invented to
blame it on.....the natural patsies.

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

Herodotus wrote in
:

I for one am interested in the outcome as historically nobody from
outside has managed to completely conquer and rule that country from
Alexander, the British, to the Russians. If you have ever experienced
the tribal nature of most of its citizens you would understand more
the difficulties. Xenophobia is in the genes.



I'm also very interested in the Afghans as an anti-technology test market
because it may give us mere mortals some clue as to how to overcome these
amazing odds when the US Illuminati government turns those same weapons
upon the citizens of the USA....say in a Civil War, soon, as Americans
revolt against the North American Union the Illuminati Elite are trying to
shove down our throats.

Afghan freedom fighters may give us the simple tools to overcome the
Illuminati's weapons turned on us back here at home. They've done an
excellent job on all foreign armies, so far.

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:27:22 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:



Ah, you were talking about the U.S. military base. I knew people who
were stationed there years ago and they liked it very much. Probably
wouldn't like it so well today.

Well, when I stopped there in '66 or so, it went right to the top of
my "Places to Never Visit Again" list. Luckily the Navy cooperated.

--Vic

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 01:45:54 +0000, Larry wrote:

"Capt. JG" wrote in
reasolutions:

So, we should just go for it? Just because someone else is doing
something wrong does not give us license to do something wrong.

-

We Americans stopped using R-12, by law, years ago. The ozone hole over
ANTARCTICA on the OTHER end of the planet has gotten LARGER because it's
caused by SOLAR ACTIVITY, not humans who are the most insignificant speck
in the astronomical size of everything else.

I bet of we bring back R-12 (and drop the price from $10/12oz back to
68c/16oz) the ozone hole over Antarctica will go on doing exactly whatit
has been doing for a few million years before Americans were invented to
blame it on.....the natural patsies.

Hell, it wasn't the R12 anyway. It was hair spray.

--Vic

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
This is one of the points that really makes me wonder about how
sensible the current U.S. Government is. I, just a guy who reads, with
no mammoth CIA/NSA/Whatever to do my research knew long before even
Iraq I that the country was artificially created and contained several
groups that hated each other and probably was ungovernable by any
other means then brute force (much like Yugoslavia) and once the
strong central government fell there would be chaos. And, surprise,
surprise, I was right.

But, and this is my point, if I could figure this out why couldn't the
whole U.S. Government with their mammoth intelligence gathering and
analyzing capability figure it out?

And if they could figure it out then what are they doing there?

And don't talk about "control of the oil" as that is just B.S. The
existing Iraqi oil fields are all produced by joint ventures with
European companies - Italian and French if memory serves.

Rant OFF

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Too bad Bush never read T E Lawrence's "Seven Pillars of Wisdom". He
might have thought twice, but then again probably not.

“All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but
the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream
with open eyes, to make it possible.”
- T.E. LAWRENCE
G

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:44:34 +1000, Herodotus
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 09:42:41 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 23:19:52 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
53...
Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

Since here in Thailand, and probably all over the third world, they
are happily using R-12, and dumping it to atmosphere it probably
goes
to prove that the Americans were responsible.



Not to mention the extensive air pollution controls on all those
thousands
of 2-stroke little trucks running old motor oil at 15:1 premix....

It's those damned Americans....every time. They love to be blamed.


So, we should just go for it? Just because someone else is doing
something
wrong does not give us license to do something wrong.

Then what are you doing in Iraq?


Sorry the temptation overcame me.


It's a great temptation to lump all Americans with Bu****, so I forgive
you!

I find it ironic.. the "surge" is working by driving the terrorists to
Afganistan. If we had gone after them in that place first... sigh, you're
right it's tempting.

I must have missed something.

Have they found oil in Afghanistan?

I for one am interested in the outcome as historically nobody from
outside has managed to completely conquer and rule that country from
Alexander, the British, to the Russians. If you have ever experienced
the tribal nature of most of its citizens you would understand more
the difficulties. Xenophobia is in the genes.

Peter


This is one of the points that really makes me wonder about how
sensible the current U.S. Government is. I, just a guy who reads, with
no mammoth CIA/NSA/Whatever to do my research knew long before even
Iraq I that the country was artificially created and contained several
groups that hated each other and probably was ungovernable by any
other means then brute force (much like Yugoslavia) and once the
strong central government fell there would be chaos. And, surprise,
surprise, I was right.

But, and this is my point, if I could figure this out why couldn't the
whole U.S. Government with their mammoth intelligence gathering and
analyzing capability figure it out?

And if they could figure it out then what are they doing there?

And don't talk about "control of the oil" as that is just B.S. The
existing Iraqi oil fields are all produced by joint ventures with
European companies - Italian and French if memory serves.

Rant OFF

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)


Because the Administration had an agenda that didn't have anything to do
with reality.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 01:45:54 +0000, Larry wrote:

"Capt. JG" wrote in
areasolutions:

So, we should just go for it? Just because someone else is doing
something wrong does not give us license to do something wrong.

-

We Americans stopped using R-12, by law, years ago. The ozone hole over
ANTARCTICA on the OTHER end of the planet has gotten LARGER because it's
caused by SOLAR ACTIVITY, not humans who are the most insignificant speck
in the astronomical size of everything else.

I bet of we bring back R-12 (and drop the price from $10/12oz back to
68c/16oz) the ozone hole over Antarctica will go on doing exactly whatit
has been doing for a few million years before Americans were invented to
blame it on.....the natural patsies.

Hell, it wasn't the R12 anyway. It was hair spray.

--Vic


The movie?


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

citizens: I know a few Australians from either the N. Territories
or W.A. who were raised in the outback. The nicest, helpful, friendly
folk you ever want to meet. and then there are the ones from sidney
and the other "civilized" places....


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

My sentiments entirely.

Sydneyites seem to equate sophistication with rudeness and a "#$%# (4
lettered word, meaning intercourse, second letter is a vowel and the
last letter is k) you" attitude.

Mebournians and Brisbanites don't seem to be on the same plane.

Peter

No Bruce. That is NOT the word. Go wash your mouth out with soap.

The word I intended was 'Aunt"

You have a seweratious mind.

cheers
Peter

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:16:34 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:27:22 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:



Ah, you were talking about the U.S. military base. I knew people who
were stationed there years ago and they liked it very much. Probably
wouldn't like it so well today.

Well, when I stopped there in '66 or so, it went right to the top of
my "Places to Never Visit Again" list. Luckily the Navy cooperated.

--Vic


I can understand that. A bit like L.A.

Peter

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 19:21:05 -0700, Gordon wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
This is one of the points that really makes me wonder about how
sensible the current U.S. Government is. I, just a guy who reads, with
no mammoth CIA/NSA/Whatever to do my research knew long before even
Iraq I that the country was artificially created and contained several
groups that hated each other and probably was ungovernable by any
other means then brute force (much like Yugoslavia) and once the
strong central government fell there would be chaos. And, surprise,
surprise, I was right.

But, and this is my point, if I could figure this out why couldn't the
whole U.S. Government with their mammoth intelligence gathering and
analyzing capability figure it out?

And if they could figure it out then what are they doing there?

And don't talk about "control of the oil" as that is just B.S. The
existing Iraqi oil fields are all produced by joint ventures with
European companies - Italian and French if memory serves.

Rant OFF

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Too bad Bush never read T E Lawrence's "Seven Pillars of Wisdom". He
might have thought twice, but then again probably not.

“All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but
the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream
with open eyes, to make it possible.”
- T.E. LAWRENCE
G


Bush can read?

OK, OK, it was a cheap shot.
Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:27:54 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:44:34 +1000, Herodotus
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 09:42:41 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
m...
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 23:19:52 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
. 253...
Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

Since here in Thailand, and probably all over the third world, they
are happily using R-12, and dumping it to atmosphere it probably
goes
to prove that the Americans were responsible.



Not to mention the extensive air pollution controls on all those
thousands
of 2-stroke little trucks running old motor oil at 15:1 premix....

It's those damned Americans....every time. They love to be blamed.


So, we should just go for it? Just because someone else is doing
something
wrong does not give us license to do something wrong.

Then what are you doing in Iraq?


Sorry the temptation overcame me.


It's a great temptation to lump all Americans with Bu****, so I forgive
you!

I find it ironic.. the "surge" is working by driving the terrorists to
Afganistan. If we had gone after them in that place first... sigh, you're
right it's tempting.

I must have missed something.

Have they found oil in Afghanistan?

I for one am interested in the outcome as historically nobody from
outside has managed to completely conquer and rule that country from
Alexander, the British, to the Russians. If you have ever experienced
the tribal nature of most of its citizens you would understand more
the difficulties. Xenophobia is in the genes.

Peter


This is one of the points that really makes me wonder about how
sensible the current U.S. Government is. I, just a guy who reads, with
no mammoth CIA/NSA/Whatever to do my research knew long before even
Iraq I that the country was artificially created and contained several
groups that hated each other and probably was ungovernable by any
other means then brute force (much like Yugoslavia) and once the
strong central government fell there would be chaos. And, surprise,
surprise, I was right.

But, and this is my point, if I could figure this out why couldn't the
whole U.S. Government with their mammoth intelligence gathering and
analyzing capability figure it out?

And if they could figure it out then what are they doing there?

And don't talk about "control of the oil" as that is just B.S. The
existing Iraqi oil fields are all produced by joint ventures with
European companies - Italian and French if memory serves.

Rant OFF

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)


Because the Administration had an agenda that didn't have anything to do
with reality.


I agree but WHAT was the agenda?

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:58:20 +1000, Herodotus
wrote:



citizens: I know a few Australians from either the N. Territories
or W.A. who were raised in the outback. The nicest, helpful, friendly
folk you ever want to meet. and then there are the ones from sidney
and the other "civilized" places....


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

My sentiments entirely.

Sydneyites seem to equate sophistication with rudeness and a "#$%# (4
lettered word, meaning intercourse, second letter is a vowel and the
last letter is k) you" attitude.

Mebournians and Brisbanites don't seem to be on the same plane.

Peter

No Bruce. That is NOT the word. Go wash your mouth out with soap.

The word I intended was 'Aunt"

You have a seweratious mind.

cheers
Peter


Peter, Peter... sophomoric

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 01:45:54 +0000, Larry wrote:

"Capt. JG" wrote in
reasolutions:

So, we should just go for it? Just because someone else is doing
something wrong does not give us license to do something wrong.

-

We Americans stopped using R-12, by law, years ago. The ozone hole over
ANTARCTICA on the OTHER end of the planet has gotten LARGER because it's
caused by SOLAR ACTIVITY, not humans who are the most insignificant speck
in the astronomical size of everything else.

I bet of we bring back R-12 (and drop the price from $10/12oz back to
68c/16oz) the ozone hole over Antarctica will go on doing exactly whatit
has been doing for a few million years before Americans were invented to
blame it on.....the natural patsies.

Larry, Larry,

Without Americans, how could anyone ever chant "Yankee go home" (but
leave your money and Coca-Cola).

Be reasonable man! If they weren't blaming you then they might pick on
little old God's own - New Zealand.

Besides, how can you help but be picked on. Look at what your system
raised as a president.

Love those Yanks. Keep 'em coming

Peter