Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:50:42 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

Clinton proved that when he reduced the welfare rolls

LOL


Are you claiming that's not true? I don't necessarily agree with it, but
those are the facts. And, I'm not thrilled that Obama is interested in the
same sort of thing.

http://www.greenchange.org/article.php?id=2935

--
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Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 18:47:49 -0700, Stephen Trapani
wrote:


Apart from any moral or empathetic reasons that come with a supposedly
highly developed civilisation, to me it makes economic sense to
financially try to help one's less fortunate citizens.
[...]

A more moral and effective way to help less fortunate citizens is with
better forms of voluntary private donation. A more moral and efficient
way to fund public services is with private companies competing in the
marketplace to provide them instead of dumping money into government
organizations with little to no accountability for how effectively they
use that money.

Stephen


The free market should certainly be more efficient than state
bureaucracy, but it doesn't always work out that way.

California's firefighting effort - considerably privatized - runs to
flying water tankers and portable cabins with air conditioning
on the fireline - at exceptionally high cost.

Private enterprise has this way of wanting always to maximize profit.
Health insurance seems to do somethng similar - to give us a smaller
proportion of the citizens served at twice the cost per capita, for a
reduced life expectancy.

I am not amused when FRANCE's health system serves all,
features home visits by doctors, costs way less than ours and provides
increased life expectancy. They were supposed to be the masters of
the bloated bureaucracy, dadgumit!

Brian W

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 18:47:49 -0700, Stephen Trapani
wrote:


Apart from any moral or empathetic reasons that come with a supposedly
highly developed civilisation, to me it makes economic sense to
financially try to help one's less fortunate citizens.
[...]

A more moral and effective way to help less fortunate citizens is with
better forms of voluntary private donation. A more moral and efficient
way to fund public services is with private companies competing in the
marketplace to provide them instead of dumping money into government
organizations with little to no accountability for how effectively they
use that money.

Stephen


The free market should certainly be more efficient than state
bureaucracy, but it doesn't always work out that way.

California's firefighting effort - considerably privatized - runs to
flying water tankers and portable cabins with air conditioning
on the fireline - at exceptionally high cost.

Private enterprise has this way of wanting always to maximize profit.
Health insurance seems to do somethng similar - to give us a smaller
proportion of the citizens served at twice the cost per capita, for a
reduced life expectancy.

I am not amused when FRANCE's health system serves all,
features home visits by doctors, costs way less than ours and provides
increased life expectancy. They were supposed to be the masters of
the bloated bureaucracy, dadgumit!

Brian W




We need to rename our French Fries again! That'll solve it.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 08:53:02 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

Clinton proved that when he reduced the welfare rolls

LOL


Are you claiming that's not true? I don't necessarily agree with it, but
those are the facts. And, I'm not thrilled that Obama is interested in the
same sort of thing.

I'm laughing at your crediting Clinton with the accomplishment. Those of
us
with longer memories recall that the Dems were dragged along kicking and
screaming at the reforms after years of pressure. In fact there still
seems
to be a large number who believe it was a mistake to stop paying teens to
stay home and make babies.


Who do you intend to credit? Even if it the Republican Congress initiated
it, which may or may not be true, a president would still be able to block
the legislation. Clinton compromised and was and continues to be severely
criticized for the compromise from the left and the right.

What you seem to be saying is that Clinton, a democrat, should be penalized
for trying to make an accomodation between the different interests.

Is this your long memory at work?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

Dave wrote:
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:56:25 -0500, Brian Whatcott
said:

Health insurance seems to do somethng similar - to give us a smaller
proportion of the citizens served at twice the cost per capita, for a
reduced life expectancy.

Never equate our present system of subsidized prepayment for health care
with insurance. Different beasts entirely.

"Subsidized prepayment"? If by "our" you're referring to the US, you
are incorrect. There are subsidies for select groups (Medicare,
Medicaid, SCHIP, etc.) but the general model is a for-profit system.
I.e., you get far less (for medical services), on average, than you pay
for. Your premiums have to cover Provider Payments + Profit + Insurance
Co. investment losses in climates like today's + non-medical related
losses in other markets in which your insurance company participates.

No subsidy in that picture...

Keith Hughes

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:17:36 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

Who do you intend to credit? Even if it the Republican Congress initiated
it, which may or may not be true, a president would still be able to block
the legislation. Clinton compromised and was and continues to be severely
criticized for the compromise from the left and the right.

What you seem to be saying is that Clinton, a democrat, should be
penalized
for trying to make an accomodation between the different interests.

I'm suggesting that Clinton's getting out of the way of a moving truck may
have been wise, but should not lead to crediting him with getting the
truck
moving.


I agree with Salty... Clinton actually got stuff done despite the obstacles.
What has Bush accomplished except a ruined economy and a war we didn't need.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

Dave wrote:
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:51:10 -0700, said:

"Subsidized prepayment"? If by "our" you're referring to the US, you
are incorrect. There are subsidies for select groups (Medicare,
Medicaid, SCHIP, etc.) but the general model is a for-profit system.
I.e., you get far less (for medical services), on average, than you pay
for. Your premiums have to cover Provider Payments + Profit + Insurance
Co. investment losses in climates like today's + non-medical related
losses in other markets in which your insurance company participates.

No subsidy in that picture...

I'd suggest reviewing the history of tax treatment of medical costs since
the price controls of WWII. Employer paid medical coverage began as a method
for employers and unions to avoid the impact of the combination of high
taxes and price controls. Since that time we've continued to throw more and
more money at the medical profession with the results you see today.

Actually, I think you'll find, on review, that while unions certainly
accelerated the trend, employer paid coverage was a tool conceived, and
promulgated independently by employers as a method of competition for
skilled workers in a very tight labor market, when price and wage
controls discouraged/prohibited other methods of competition. That
unfair tax policies (i.e. not taxing employer coverage as income)
developed, was not a result of subsidizing healthcare, it was more a
pander to large corporations with deep enough pockets to afford coverage
- and campaign contributions - so they could out-compete their smaller
rivals. A completely irrational approach to building a healthcare
network, but there you have it. And that's why we're here. The
for-profit intermediary approach (insurance) merely exacerbates the problem.

Keith Hughes

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 12:04:41 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

Clinton actually got stuff done despite the obstacles.

The obstacles created by....


Republicans and Democrats who were more interested in politics. Neither
party is immune from this, but it's pretty clear about the motivations of
the Republicans, especially lately. As I said, he compromised and was
chastised for it. He also went after bin laden and was chastised for that
even though he almost got em.

--
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www.sailnow.com

Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:54:18 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

The obstacles created by....


Republicans and Democrats

Yeah, right. You crack me up, Jon.

He also went after bin laden and was chastised for that
even though he almost got em.

Are you trying out to replace Jay Leno for his monologue?


Is he a Republican or a Democrat?

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Advice on refridgeration unit please
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:18:27 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

Are you trying out to replace Jay Leno for his monologue?


Is he a Republican or a Democrat?

Dunno, but his script writers unquestionably display a left coast
mentality.
They expect the mere utterance of "Karl Rove" or "Dick Cheney" to send
their
audience into stitches.


I don't think Karl (Achtung) Rove is particular funny although he is in
contempt of Congress. LOL

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www.sailnow.com