The link below has some pictures of a 1977 Catalina 27. I was hoping
someone might comment on the damage to the keel ... i.e. how serious
and cost of repair. Any other comments would be appreciated as well
(I am looking to buy this boat).

http://home.fnal.gov/~dschmitz/photo.../sailboats.htm

That is a bit low for a "Catalina Smile". The typical crack in Catalina
fins is up close to the stub and is caused by impropper support of the
heel of the keel while it is on a trailer. That looks more like plane
old delamination after a bump on a rock. Without knowing what condition
the cast iron is in under the glass it is hard to say exactly but more
than likely you just need to grind out the crack to bright metal,
feather the edge back into sound glass and build it back up with
glass/epoxy. Be prepared to grind back a good ways as once water gets
to the iron the rust keeps delaminating the glass and spreading.

Here is a site with some drawings and other details on Catalina keel
repairs. http://www.blumhorst.com/catalina27/...tory_drawings/

Shane wrote:

The link below has some pictures of a 1977 Catalina 27. I was hoping
someone might comment on the damage to the keel ... i.e. how serious
and cost of repair. Any other comments would be appreciated as well
(I am looking to buy this boat).

http://home.fnal.gov/~dschmitz/photo.../sailboats.htm

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

I hate to follow Glenn and it think he has cover the damage and repair
procedure.

I gather that you don't want to repair it yourself, however once you get a
yard estimate my may either walk away from the boat or get the book and
learn how to do it yourself. (wouldn't be a bad project to learn on.)

I would estimate that a yard would take about 16 man hours to do this job
(once the boat is in their yard). Yard rate are from $60 to $120/hr plus
material. You can be sure they will charge you top $ for the material. So
figure min. $1000 to $3000 worst case. Plus $500 for material (their like
hospitals and charge $10 for a bush and even more for the asprin.)

They may also recommend tightening up on the keel bolts. That's something
you could do, if they will allow it. I wouldn't tamper with the keel bolts
until the keel weight is fully supported externally.


--
My opinion and experience. FWIW

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

"Steve" wrote in message ...
I hate to follow Glenn and it think he has cover the damage and repair
procedure.

I gather that you don't want to repair it yourself, however once you get a
yard estimate my may either walk away from the boat or get the book and
learn how to do it yourself. (wouldn't be a bad project to learn on.)

I would estimate that a yard would take about 16 man hours to do this job
(once the boat is in their yard). Yard rate are from $60 to $120/hr plus
material. You can be sure they will charge you top $ for the material. So
figure min. $1000 to $3000 worst case. Plus $500 for material (their like
hospitals and charge $10 for a bush and even more for the asprin.)

They may also recommend tightening up on the keel bolts. That's something
you could do, if they will allow it. I wouldn't tamper with the keel bolts
until the keel weight is fully supported externally.

So how much do you think it would cost to self-repair? I would also
point out that the owner has had the boat for 14 years, and he says it
has been that way since he got it and that it has not gotten any
worse. He just paints over it every year.

If that is true (he seems honest) wouldn't any major damages elsewhere
from the collision have shown themselves by now?

Shane wrote:

So how much do you think it would cost to self-repair? I would also
point out that the owner has had the boat for 14 years, and he says it
has been that way since he got it and that it has not gotten any
worse. He just paints over it every year.

If that is true (he seems honest) wouldn't any major damages elsewhere
from the collision have shown themselves by now?

In actual material, probably $25-$30 for the glass, another $60 -$80 for
the epoxy and $20 worth of microballoons. (Those prices are kinda high
because you will be buying small amounts.) If you don't have then
already, you will need a GOOD angle grinder, GOOD respirator, DA disk
sander, bubble buster glass roller and $20-$30 in disposables.
(Spreaders, acetone, sandpaper, gloves etc.)

It is not rocket science but it will be a nasty job and because of
environmental concerns, some yards will not let you grind bottom paint
yourself.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Glenn covered your cost question, tools and material. I would add a roll of
visquen plastic sheets and a lot of duct tape. Also a approprate resperator
and a few 'bubba suites'..

I don't know how much you are paying for this boat but I doubt it's your
'first born'. Looks like a good starter boat and if this is the only major
damage then you will have a good learning experience with a minimum
investment. If your survive the glass dust itch from this job then your
ready for any other lesser jobs you find.

You could do your own survey of the extent of this damage with a mallet or
handle of a large screw driver.. Just work your way around the damaged area,
listening to the sound as you progress outward. You don't have to be a
surveyor to do such preliminary survey. If the area is large then I would
double or triple Glenns material costs and strip/grind it back to a good
bond. The area of most concern would be up towards the stub since that is
more sturctural than the lower area which is just sheathing.

Good luck and I hope you survive the glass itch experience with a positive
attitude.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Steve wrote:

I don't know how much you are paying for this boat but I doubt it's your
'first born'. Looks like a good starter boat and if this is the only major
damage then you will have a good learning experience with a minimum
investment. If your survive the glass dust itch from this job then your
ready for any other lesser jobs you find.

One vital point to remember. After grinding fiberglass DO NOT take a
hot shower. That just lets the glass creep deeper into your skin. A
COLD shower seems to squeeze it out. :-)

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Shane wrote:
So how much do you think it would cost to self-repair?

The materials for the repair itself, not that much... couple hundred
bucks. The yard bill for the haul-out and storage (and all the other
things that the boat is likely to need) will be much more.

.... I would also
point out that the owner has had the boat for 14 years, and he says it
has been that way since he got it and that it has not gotten any
worse. He just paints over it every year.

hmm... how much is he paying you to take it off his hands?


If that is true (he seems honest) wouldn't any major damages elsewhere
from the collision have shown themselves by now?

Some of the other posters have given excellent hints about delaminated
sections, detached grid members, etc etc. I'd recommend going to the
library and doing some reading & studying on boat construction &
fiberglass repair... the Gougeon Brothers are an excellent place to start.

You seem pretty well sold on this boat. Sounds like a disaster to me,
but get the guy to take the boat out for a sea trial and have him
demonstrate everything (which should be standard in a boat sale, but
more and more sellers are getting away without it). If you look
carefully for movement between hull & various structural members while
it's sailing, and there isn't any, then it's OK. Alternatively, you can
skip this test, assume "everything will be OK" and just keep sailing it
like the owner/seller did. If it starts to break apart on you, somebody
will come get you....

FB
Doug King

Shane wrote:
So how much do you think it would cost to self-repair?

The materials for the repair itself, not that much... couple hundred
bucks. The yard bill for the haul-out and storage (and all the other
things that the boat is likely to need) will be much more.

.... I would also
point out that the owner has had the boat for 14 years, and he says it
has been that way since he got it and that it has not gotten any
worse. He just paints over it every year.

hmm... how much is he paying you to take it off his hands?


If that is true (he seems honest) wouldn't any major damages elsewhere
from the collision have shown themselves by now?

Some of the other posters have given excellent hints about delaminated
sections, detached grid members, etc etc. I'd recommend going to the
library and doing some reading & studying on boat construction &
fiberglass repair... the Gougeon Brothers are an excellent place to start.

You seem pretty well sold on this boat. Sounds like a disaster to me,
but get the guy to take the boat out for a sea trial and have him
demonstrate everything (which should be standard in a boat sale, but
more and more sellers are getting away without it). If you look
carefully for movement between hull & various structural members while
it's sailing, and there isn't any, then it's OK. Alternatively, you can
skip this test, assume "everything will be OK" and just keep sailing it
like the owner/seller did. If it starts to break apart on you, somebody
will come get you....

FB
Doug King

Shane wrote:

The link below has some pictures of a 1977 Catalina 27. I was hoping
someone might comment on the damage to the keel ... i.e. how serious
and cost of repair. Any other comments would be appreciated as well
(I am looking to buy this boat).

http://home.fnal.gov/~dschmitz/photo.../sailboats.htm

You might want to carefully check the interior of the boat for
distortions. I once saw a Catalina 30 with similar damage. The
force of hitting a rock flexed the hull hard enough to knock the
bulkheads out of alignment. The most obvious symptom was the head
door not being able to close.

--
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